NFL Social Issues

[CuseFaninVT]

He's basically the same size as Shane Ray (albeit not as fast) and was never given an opportunity to play LB, aside from a few snaps in the Senior Bowl.

Go ahead, find another player who was as decorated in college, who had similar success in the preseason, and who suffered the same fate. You can't. Any other player would be given numerous opportunities to prove your assessment wrong. That's all I'm saying.

Are they given those opportunities though because they were overrated coming out of college and ended up getting guaranteed money due to their draft position? That seems more likely.

 

[Alsacs]

Kony Ealy's 40 time at the combine was 4.92. He was a second round pick and is still in the NFL.

Sam's 40 time at the Mizzou pro day was 4.69. Another "motor" guy, Chris Long, was the second overall pick and his 40 time at the combine was 4.75. He was about an inch taller and ten pounds heavier than Sam coming out of Virginia.

Whether or not Sam was good enough is not the issue. The issue is that he didn't get a chance to prove otherwise. That's something you just don't see in the NFL with a former SEC Defensive Player of the Year.

Ealy ran a 4.84

Also he is a pure DE. He is big.

Sam is smaller would need to be a DE/OLB a la Shane Ray.

 

[Day2]

How do you explain his CFL experience? If he dominated there then maybe you'd have a point.

He clearly lost interest in being a professional football player after the way he was treated.

 

[Melancer46]

2014 NFL Draft Report; Full first-round mock draft unveiled … plus a few bonus second-rounders
Michael Sam vs. Kony Ealy: Which Mizzou DE is better prospect?

Now I'm obligated to ask you to provide a source that backs up your claim.

2014 NFL Draft: Stock Up, Stock Down for Prospects After Bowl Season

NFL Draft top 200 big board

However, after saying this, I went back to look at WalterFootball on the Wayback Machine (which is an awesome tool btw). I believe Michael Sam came out on February 9th or February 10th.

In Walter's mock draft from February 5th, he had Michael Sam listed as a late 2nd round pick. In his mock draft on February 12th, he had fallen to the late 4th.

It does seem like his draft stock was trending down before he had come out though. For example, Walter listed him as the #13 OLB in January with a projected draft range of 2-4th round. In February before he came out, he had fallen to #15 with a 3-4th round projection. Then his stock held steady there until after the NFL combine when Walter moved him down to #22 with a 5th-7th round projection, talking about how poor of a showing he had at the Combine.

 

[Alsacs]

There's a big difference between the SEC DPOY and the ACC DPOY. Even so, Cash went undrafted because he was dealing with multiple injuries. 20 teams tried to sign him after the draft. Apples and oranges.

I can go thru the P5 conferences and find more examples.

Sam wasn't screwed. The guy didn't have the speed to play NFL football.

You can be undersized a la Dwight Freeney but you need elite speed.
Sam was smaller and slower that is why he didn't make it.

 

[Day2]

Ealy ran a 4.84

Also he is a pure DE. He is big.

Sam is smaller would need to be a DE/OLB a la Shane Ray.

According to NFL.com, Elay's official time was 4.92.

Michael Sam, Kony Ealy show improvement at Missouri pro day

You guys continue to miss the point. You don't have to convince me that Ealy and Ray were better prospects than Sam. I followed all three at Mizzou. But Ealy and Ray are among the hundreds of players who have been given numerous opportunities, while Sam was barely given two.

You're telling me that one inch and ten pounds is why Sam is too small to play DE? He was among the preseason league leaders in sacks that year.

 

[Day2]

I can go thru the P5 conferences and find more examples.

Sam wasn't screwed. The guy didn't have the speed to play NFL football.

You can be undersized a la Dwight Freeney but you need elite speed.
Sam was smaller and slower that is why he didn't make it.

You only need to go through the SEC. Just about every other SEC DPOY was a first round pick.

Sam is faster than Long and not much smaller.

 

[Alsacs]

According to NFL.com, Elay's official time was 4.92.

Michael Sam, Kony Ealy show improvement at Missouri pro day

You guys continue to miss the point. You don't have to convince me that Ealy and Ray were better prospects than Sam. I followed all three at Mizzou. But Ealy and Ray are among the hundreds of players who have been given numerous opportunities, while Sam was barely given two.

You're telling me that one inch and ten pounds is why Sam is too small to play DE? He was among the preseason league leaders in sacks that year.

Again Sam is too slow to play NFL football.

He isn't the guy you want to argue for. Kaepernick is being blackballed.

Why would St. Louis cut him if he could play?
Sam was signed to the Cowboys practice squad. They kicked the tires. The guy wasn't good enough.

If he could play OLB/DE he would have made it. 4.91 speed is slow for that position.

 

[Day2]

2014 NFL Draft: Stock Up, Stock Down for Prospects After Bowl Season

NFL Draft top 200 big board

However, after saying this, I went back to look at WalterFootball on the Wayback Machine (which is an awesome tool btw). I believe Michael Sam came out on February 9th or February 10th.

In Walter's mock draft from February 5th, he had Michael Sam listed as a late 2nd round pick. In his mock draft on February 12th, he had fallen to the late 4th.

It does seem like his draft stock was trending down before he had come out though. For example, Walter listed him as the #13 OLB in January with a projected draft range of 2-4th round. In February before he came out, he had fallen to #15 with a 3-4th round projection. Then his stock held steady there until after the NFL combine when Walter moved him down to #22 with a 5th-7th round projection, talking about how poor of a showing he had at the Combine.

Your last two paragraphs contradict each other somewhat.

Sam's combine showing was a convenient excuse. You don't fall all the way out of the draft just because of a poor showing at the combine. Especially when you improve upon all of your numbers at your school's pro day.

 

[Alsacs]

You only need to go through the SEC. Just about every other SEC DPOY was a first round pick.

Sam is faster than Long and not much smaller.

Chris Long?

NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Chris Long

Chris Long is a pure DE. 6'4" 275
Michael Sam is a DE/OLB 6'2" 261
NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Michael Sam

Long ran a 4.75 40 yard.

Sam was compared to a bust Larry English. The scouts nailed this one.

 

[Day2]

Again Sam is too slow to play NFL football.

He isn't the guy you want to argue for. Kaepernick is being blackballed.

Why would St. Louis cut him if he could play?
Sam was signed to the Cowboys practice squad. They kicked the tires. The guy wasn't good enough.

If he could play OLB/DE he would have made it. 4.91 speed is slow for that position.

Neither the Rams nor the Cowboys gave Sam an opportunity to play LB. He's faster than a number of All-Pro defensive ends.

By your logic, the Jets shouldn't have signed Ealy. He's slow and he wasn't good enough to play for two other teams.

 

[Alsacs]

If you aren't drafted in the first 4 rounds you aren't a roster lock.

Sam wasn't blackballed. He was picked in 7th round. Given a chance. He didn't make it. Dallas signed to the practice squad. Didn't impress them and is gone.

 

[Day2]

Chris Long?

NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Chris Long

Chris Long is a pure DE. 6'4" 275
Michael Sam is a DE/OLB 6'2" 261
NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Michael Sam

Long ran a 4.75 40 yard.

Sam was compared to a bust Larry English. The scouts nailed this one.

Everywhere else has Long listed at 6-3. Sam ran a 4.69 40 at the Mizzou pro day.

 

[Alsacs]

Neither the Rams nor the Cowboys gave Sam an opportunity to play LB. He's faster than a number of All-Pro defensive ends.

By your logic, the Jets shouldn't have signed Ealy. He's slow and he wasn't good enough to play for two other teams.

Ealy is faster than Sam. Fact.

The Patriots released Ealy. The Jets picked him up because IMO the Patriots dumped him.

 

[Day2]

If you aren't drafted in the first 4 rounds you aren't a roster lock.

Sam wasn't blackballed. He was picked in 7th round. Given a chance. He didn't make it. Dallas signed to the practice squad. Didn't impress them and is gone.

Fisher admitted he only drafted Sam because he wanted to break a barrier. Sam is from Dallas. I wouldn't be surprised if the league urged the Cowboys to sign him. He was never given a fair shake.

 

[Day2]

Ealy is faster than Sam. Fact.

The Patriots released Ealy. The Jets picked him up because IMO the Patriots dumped him.

Ealy is only faster than Sam if you go by their pro day times, which you've ignored up until this point.

DE Kony Ealy, who Patriots curiously released, stars in Jets win over Jaguars

 

[bpo57]

There's a big difference between the SEC DPOY and the ACC DPOY. Even so, Cash went undrafted because he was dealing with multiple injuries. 20 teams tried to sign him after the draft. Apples and oranges.

Tim Tebow was SEC OPOY twice.

 

[bpo57]

He clearly lost interest in being a professional football player after the way he was treated.

It just couldn't be that he wasn't good enough? Evidence surely seems tilted in that direction.

 

[bpo57]

Everywhere else has Long listed at 6-3. Sam ran a 4.69 40 at the Mizzou pro day.

Sam quit playing football after one game in the CFL where he didn't make a tackle. Maybe he realized he wasn't cut out for professional football. It's a grind. Maybe the Rams and Cowboys figured that out.

 

[Day2]

Tim Tebow was SEC OPOY twice.

If Sam was given the same number of chances as Tebow, we wouldn't be having this conversation. And I'll bet there are still a lot of people who believe Tebow deserved even more chances.

 

[Day2]

It just couldn't be that he wasn't good enough? Evidence surely seems tilted in that direction.

Does it? He had a solid preseason in 2014.

Michael Sam's Preseason Play Shows He Can Be Effective NFL Player
90% of players w/ Sam's preseason stats make team
Michael Sam's NFL snub already at historic level

 

[Day2]

Sam quit playing football after one game in the CFL where he didn't make a tackle. Maybe he realized he wasn't cut out for professional football. It's a grind. Maybe the Rams and Cowboys figured that out.

His CFL experience is after the fact.

 

[bpo57]

If Sam was given the same number of chances as Tebow, we wouldn't be having this conversation. And I'll bet there are still a lot of people who believe Tebow deserved even more chances.

You're in small company when you somehow think Michael Sam was going to be an NFL player but got jobbed by the man. Just not the case.

 

[bpo57]

Does it? He had a solid preseason in 2014.

Michael Sam's Preseason Play Shows He Can Be Effective NFL Player
90% of players w/ Sam's preseason stats make team
Michael Sam's NFL snub already at historic level

Playing against other guys that didn't make the NFL.

 

[bpo57]

His CFL experience is after the fact.

Clearly he didn't love the game enough to stick it out. I don't blame him for that. Seems to me you're convinced he got a bad deal and that it could never be he wasn't good enough. No matter evidence to the contrary. There are all sorts of college players that tore it up in college and go nowhere in the NFL.