NFL Thread - 2020

[Finwad32]

Yeah, no fist fight but Colombo is definitely fired... Not really much positive to it, tough move middle of the season with momentum seemingly moving in the right direction.

JJ definitely doesn’t take any shiitake from anyone apparently.

He must’ve seen something he didn’t like from Colombo, have to trust that imo. I’m sure Garrett’s a little disappointed today too.

Sounds like Judge bringing in a longtime OL guy as a consultant type put Colombo over the edge.

 

[Ryand877]

 

[ForCuseSake]

I thought Colombo was a really good ol coach. Its not all Philbins fault he lost Collins, Smith, Frederick, but I liked the edge that Colombo brought to the team.

Colombo took over after Paul Alexander was fired mid-2018.

Alexander had a bad 6-8 months in Dallas despite being a well regarded line coach.

Could’ve been scapegoat for a 3-4 start or maybe lost his touch.

Hard to screw up a line with healthy Travis Fredricks, Zach Martin and Tyron Smith but he somehow found a way.

Don’t think Colombo’s firing moves the needle in NY.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

i wouldnt put Simms and McMahon in the same sentence.

Phil was certainly a game manager, but one who finished his career All Time i believe 8th in yards and 13th in TD passes.

he had some injuries, but he also missed games because of 2 strikes.

hes also the recipient of one of my all time favorite Parcells quotes..."SIMMS!!! if you dont throw 2 interceptions today, then youre just not trying hard".

let that sink in to all the anti-INT fanboys out there.

Sorry. My post was not clear in terms of what I was asking.

There are only two Giants jerseys in my Man Cave - Simms and LT.
No Bavaro, no Eli, No Banks, No Pepper, No Strahan. Really high bar. Simms was an absolutely phenomenal QB who, if the offense needed to play a bigger role for those great Giants teams, would be in the HOF.

I only put them in the same sentence because I viewed them as game managers, a responsibility imposed on them from above.

What I don't know is how good McMahon really was. Was he a really good QB that had to play the game manager role or was he more Trent Dilferish?

 

[bpo57]

BTW, speaking of Bears, be interested in hearing your take on McMahon. Their offense was great that year because they ran the ball down everyone's throats. McMahon's stats were very mediocre. I don't think he is Dilfer but he might not be far above him.

The flip side to the argument is that, with that running game and D, McMahon was asked to be nothing more than a game manager, much like Simms and Hoss under Parcells.

That's a good question. My impression of McMahon was that he was a guy whose game was better than his stats if that makes any sense. That dude was tough as nails and his teammates, particularly the OL, would go all out for him. He had a knack for winning football games. When he came out of BYU he was a gun slinger that would throw the ball around the yard. But with Ditka he had to play the game manager to a large degree which did make some sense given that insane defense. JMO but I felt he was a cut above some of the weakest SB winning QBs like Dilfer and a few others.

 

[bpo57]

Great D but didn't win enough.

Their biggest opportunity may have been the Fog Bowl against the Bears in the late 80s.

 

[bpo57]

Sorry. My post was not clear in terms of what I was asking.

There are only two Giants jerseys in my Man Cave - Simms and LT.
No Bavaro, no Eli, No Banks, No Pepper, No Strahan. Really high bar. Simms was an absolutely phenomenal QB who, if the offense needed to play a bigger role for those great Giants teams, would be in the HOF.

I only put them in the same sentence because I viewed them as game managers, a responsibility imposed on them from above.

What I don't know is how good McMahon really was. Was he a really good QB that had to play the game manager role or was he more Trent Dilferish?

I'm no NYG fan but if I was I'd find room in the cave for a Bavaro jersey. That dude was a beast. I watched him in Philly when he was past his prime and he was still very effective. I may be off on the details but I think it was Simms who told the story about being in the huddle and telling the players to just run the clock at the end of a victory (prolly over the Skins and not the Eagles) . He looked over at Bavaro who had a disgusted look on his face. Simms asked him what's up and Bavaro shook his head and said damn I just wanna hit that sob (the guy across the LOS) one more time. lol

 

[Forza Azzurri]

That's a good question. My impression of McMahon was that he was a guy whose game was better than his stats if that makes any sense. That dude was tough as nails and his teammates, particularly the OL, would go all out for him. He had a knack for winning football games. When he came out of BYU he was a gun slinger that would throw the ball around the yard. But with Ditka he had to play the game manager to a large degree which did make some sense given that insane defense. JMO but I felt he was a cut above some of the weakest SB winning QBs like Dilfer and a few others.

Makes total sense as that is how I would describe him also: a winner. I knew he was tough as nails and his teammates loved him. What I was uncertain about was how talented he was.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

I'm no NYG fan but if I was I'd find room in the cave for a Bavaro jersey. That dude was a beast. I watched him in Philly when he was past his prime and he was still very effective. I may be off on the details but I think it was Simms who told the story about being in the huddle and telling the players to just run the clock at the end of a victory (prolly over the Skins and not the Eagles) . He looked over at Bavaro who had a disgusted look on his face. Simms asked him what's up and Bavaro shook his head and said damn I just wanna hit that sob (the guy across the LOS) one more time. lol

LOL...given the space allocated to the Giants, I only had room for two. If pressed, #3 would be either Bavaro or Banks.

 

[KaiserUEO]

I'm no NYG fan but if I was I'd find room in the cave for a Bavaro jersey. That dude was a beast. I watched him in Philly when he was past his prime and he was still very effective. I may be off on the details but I think it was Simms who told the story about being in the huddle and telling the players to just run the clock at the end of a victory (prolly over the Skins and not the Eagles) . He looked over at Bavaro who had a disgusted look on his face. Simms asked him what's up and Bavaro shook his head and said damn I just wanna hit that sob (the guy across the LOS) one more time. lol

it was Simms telling that story. might have been in the XXI America's Game.

 

[Briancuse]

Sorry. My post was not clear in terms of what I was asking.

There are only two Giants jerseys in my Man Cave - Simms and LT.
No Bavaro, no Eli, No Banks, No Pepper, No Strahan. Really high bar. Simms was an absolutely phenomenal QB who, if the offense needed to play a bigger role for those great Giants teams, would be in the HOF.

I only put them in the same sentence because I viewed them as game managers, a responsibility imposed on them from above.

What I don't know is how good McMahon really was. Was he a really good QB that had to play the game manager role or was he more Trent Dilferish?

If he doesn't get hurt in 90 he would be in.

 

[Alsacs]

If he doesn't get hurt in 90 he would be in.

Doubtful since he hasn’t even been a finalist for the HOF
Simms was a better QB in his Era than Eli has been this era though.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

If he doesn't get hurt in 90 he would be in.

Yup. Tough to keep a two-time Super Bowl winner out...

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Doubtful since he hasn’t even been a finalist for the HOF
Simms was a better QB in his Era than Eli has been this era though.

I agree with this but I am not objective.

 

[Alsacs]

Yup. Tough to keep a two-time Super Bowl winner out...

Jim Plunkett won 2 SBs his numbers are slightly worse than Simms he isn’t in the HOF.
Simms was better than Eli.

Modern numbers are inflated because of the rules.

 

[Alsacs]

I agree with this but I am not objective.

Simms was the 2nd best QB in the NFC in the 1980s.
Behind Montana.

Washington didn’t have one QB,
Philly didn’t settle till Randall Cunningham in the late 80’s,
Phoenix had nobody,
Dallas didn’t get Aikman till 1988.
Minnesota switched QBs every year.
Green Bay was garbage
Chicago had McMahon and Simms was better
Detroit didn’t have a good QB
Tampa had Testaverde who sucked
New Orleans didn’t have a good QB
LA Rams had no elite QB
Atlanta didn’t have a QB
San Francisco had Montana.

Phil Simms was the second best QB in the NFC in the 1980s.

The AFC had Elway, Marino, Moon and when he came from USFL Jim Kelly.

Simms I believe was held back by his team and the rules being more defensive friendly.
I remember his 1993 season carrying Dan Reeves. That week 17 game with Dallas basically swung a SB.
Winner of that game got HFA and while Dallas was probably better the game in Jersey should have gone NYG way.
Reeves called a conservative game and Emmitt Smith swung that game.
Simms kept the Giants in it.

 

[Trueblue25]

In for the Cards tonight.

 

[upperdeck]

sometimes good QBs never win one.. Sometimes not very good QBs win one
won them as avg QBs
Plunket
Doug Williams
Jeff hostetler
Mary Rypien
Trent Dilfer
Nick Foles
Joe Flacco

lost them as avg QBs
Garoppolo
Goff
Kaepernick
Grossman
hasselbeck
Delhomme
Gannon
Collins
McNair
Chandler
O'Donnell
Humphries
Eason
Woodley
Ferragamo

 

[Finwad32]

Simms was the 2nd best QB in the NFC in the 1980s.
Behind Montana.

Washington didn’t have one QB,
Philly didn’t settle till Randall Cunningham in the late 80’s,
Phoenix had nobody,
Dallas didn’t get Aikman till 1988.
Minnesota switched QBs every year.
Green Bay was garbage
Chicago had McMahon and Simms was better
Detroit didn’t have a good QB
Tampa had Testaverde who sucked
New Orleans didn’t have a good QB
LA Rams had no elite QB
Atlanta didn’t have a QB
San Francisco had Montana.

Phil Simms was the second best QB in the NFC in the 1980s.

The AFC had Elway, Marino, Moon and when he came from USFL Jim Kelly.

Simms I believe was held back by his team and the rules being more defensive friendly.
I remember his 1993 season carrying Dan Reeves. That week 17 game with Dallas basically swung a SB.
Winner of that game got HFA and while Dallas was probably better the game in Jersey should have gone NYG way.
Reeves called a conservative game and Emmitt Smith swung that game.
Simms kept the Giants in it.

I feel like your post is making the point that Simms was second best almost by default. The game was different, it's very difficult to compare. But the fact that there were so many sub-par quarterbacks and teams is an argument against Phil imo.

Phil's winning percentage is better, but, he also played in 70 less games. This brings up another point, Manning was one of the most durable players in the history of the league.

Manning statistically was better in every category, but, you have to take it with a grain of salt because in the 2000's the ball was thrown way more and the game had changed schematically.

Manning also holds every Giants passing record that's meaningful.

Statistically, I don't think you can compare, just different eras.

But for my money, I certainly don't think Simms was hands down the better QB, and both of these guys played during the years where I was most intently watching/involved.

I personally like Manning better, and he'll be in the HOF. Simms never will.

The game had changed, but they were both very accomplished. It's a shame Eli was saddled with such poor teams his last 4-5 years because it took alot of the shine off of his value.

 

[Alsacs]

I feel like your post is making the point that Simms was second best almost by default. The game was different, it's very difficult to compare. But the fact that there were so many sub-par quarterbacks and teams is an argument against Phil imo.

Phil's winning percentage is better, but, he also played in 70 less games. This brings up another point, Manning was one of the most durable players in the history of the league.

Manning statistically was better in every category, but, you have to take it with a grain of salt because in the 2000's the ball was thrown way more and the game had changed schematically.

Manning also holds every Giants passing record that's meaningful.

Statistically, I don't think you can compare, just different eras.

But for my money, I certainly don't think Simms was hands down the better QB, and both of these guys played during the years where I was most intently watching/involved.

I personally like Manning better, and he'll be in the HOF. Simms never will.

The game had changed, but they were both very accomplished. It's a shame Eli was saddled with such poor teams his last 4-5 years because it took alot of the shine off of his value.

Eli was never close to the top of the league at QB.

He wasn’t.
His best year was 2008 27TDs 14 INTs 4K yards and 12-4 record.

Career record 117-117.

Phil Simms was 95-64 as the starting QB.
Simms played in a tougher era. In a tougher division and tougher conference than Eli.

1980’s-early 1990’s NFC East was the cream of crop division and Simms won games.

Eli played in a weaker NFC East.

Eli’s best attribute was game availablility. He never got hurt.
Simms got hurt often and even missed a season.

Eli compiled stats.
Eli won the 2 SBs he was clutch but the defense was why they won.
New England 2007 offense was one of the best all time and it only scored 14 points.

Second SB Patriots were a product of a chitty AFC so I give Eli the Giants didn’t really upset them they were as good.
If Eli Manning is a HOFer it’s because he didn’t get hurt and compiled stats.
117-117 is a .500 record.
That doesn’t scream cream of the crop QB in an era QBs control how good you are.

 

[Alsacs]

Justin Tuck is more of a HOFer than Eli Manning.

Tuck was deprived of a SB MVP in SB 42.
For the record Brady didn’t deserve the SB MVP in SB 36 and Pat Mahomes didn’t deserve the SB MVP last year.

 

[Alsacs]

sometimes good QBs never win one.. Sometimes not very good QBs win one
won them as avg QBs
Plunket
Doug Williams
Jeff hostetler
Mary Rypien
Trent Dilfer
Nick Foles
Joe Flacco

lost them as avg QBs
Garoppolo
Goff
Kaepernick
Grossman
hasselbeck
Delhomme
Gannon
Collins
McNair
Chandler
O'Donnell
Humphries
Eason
Woodley
Ferragamo

Gannon and McNair won NFL MVPs I think they are better than average QBs.

 

[Finwad32]

Eli was never close to the top of the league at QB.

He wasn’t.
His best year was 2008 27TDs 14 INTs 4K yards and 12-4 record.

Career record 117-117.

Phil Simms was 95-64 as the starting QB.
Simms played in a tougher era. In a tougher division and tougher conference than Eli.

1980’s-early 1990’s NFC East was the cream of crop division and Simms won games.

Eli played in a weaker NFC East.

Eli’s best attribute was game availablility. He never got hurt.
Simms got hurt often and even missed a season.

Eli compiled stats.
Eli won the 2 SBs he was clutch but the defense was why they won.
New England 2007 offense was one of the best all time and it only scored 14 points.

Second SB Patriots were a product of a chitty AFC so I give Eli the Giants didn’t really upset them they were as good.
If Eli Manning is a HOFer it’s because he didn’t get hurt and compiled stats.
117-117 is a .500 record.
That doesn’t scream cream of the crop QB in an era QBs control how good you are.

HOF is HOF - and Eli’s going before Phil. Simms was good, he wasn’t cream of crop. He was probably top 10, not top 5.

NFC East was cream of crop in the 1990’s, a decade where Phil played 40 games over 4 seasons. In their most successful season in the 90’s, Hostetler won the games we remember.

My point is, Simms is not slam dunk better. Imo, he’s not really better at all.

And the argument that Eli won because of defense, was the Giants offense the reason Phil won all his games? LT and that crew might disagree.

Phil brought the Giants past the Divisional round once. And in 15 seasons (including 1990) had 8 above .500. His career completion % was 5 points lower than Eli’s, passer rating was 6 points lower than Eli and his TD/Int ratio was 1.26, Eli’s was 1.5...

And before Mcapoopoo took over, Eli was 24 games over .500 for his career.

But I can certainly understand and appreciate the argument to the other side. They were both very good, Phil’s just not higher on my pedestal.

 

[Alsacs]

HOF is HOF - and Eli’s going before Phil. Simms was good, he wasn’t cream of crop. He was probably top 10, not top 5.

NFC East was cream of crop in the 1990’s, a decade where Phil played 40 games over 4 seasons. In their most successful season in the 90’s, Hostetler won the games we remember.

My point is, Simms is not slam dunk better. Imo, he’s not really better at all.

And the argument that Eli won because of defense, was the Giants offense the reason Phil won all his games? LT and that crew might disagree.

Phil brought the Giants past the Divisional round once. And in 15 seasons (including 1990) had 8 above .500. His career completion % was 5 points lower than Eli’s, passer rating was 6 points lower than Eli and his TD/Int ratio was 1.26, Eli’s was 1.5...

And before Mcapoopoo took over, Eli was 24 games over .500 for his career.

But I can certainly understand and appreciate the argument to the other side. They were both very good, Phil’s just not higher on my pedestal.

My point is Eli isn’t a HOF without question.
Because of the era he has played in.
I wouldn’t call him one the top 10 QBs since 2000.
1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Drew Brees
4. Kurt Warner
5. Aaron Rodgers
6. Brett Favre
7. Ben Rothlisberger
8. Pat Mahomes
9. Russell Wilson
10. Steve McNair

How many QBs are HOFers from this era.

I didn’t even include guys like Philip Rivers it Donovan McNabb who had higher peaks than Eli.

Eli is a stat compiler who never got hurt.
Eli is a better version of Joe Flacco.
Guys who when they get hot can beat anyone but aren’t going to carry a successful regular season with just themselves.
Flacco had 3 playoff runs to the AFC title game and won 1 SB and 1 SB MVP.
Eli had 2 playoff runs and 2 SBs.

Flacco passed Joe Montana in the alltime stars.
He isn’t a HOFer.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Jim Plunkett won 2 SBs his numbers are slightly worse than Simms he isn’t in the HOF.
Simms was better than Eli.

Modern numbers are inflated because of the rules.

plunkett was a backup. thats why.

if foles wins another, nobody will give 2 shlits about him either.