NIL has changed me as a college sports fan...and it ain't for the better

[orangecuse]

Losing the FB players to 'factory schools' and losing Jesse to a 'peer' makes me depressed. And I don't watch sports to get depressed. I watch politics for that.

Agree. We should be able to currently compete relative to the pay for play (I won't call it NIL as that's bogus facade garb) on the hoops front. SU still has a solid brand in that regard, the Dome, part of (in the moment) a very good revenue making conference in the ACC, fan base, etc.

However, football is a different world, OSU last weekend had 75K + at its spring game. SU's upcoming game will draw similar to a really good lax crowd. From a broader and more comprehensive picture, this is where the future of the SUAD (as it's known today) is in a considerably more problematic position, since football drives the bus.

Where will SU be a decade from now when the GOR is near/closer to its expiration date? Will we be left at the altar scrambling to find a home when the SEC and B1G take their pick of the state land grant flagships currently in the ACC? And, if so, how will it ultimately impact hoops? Who knows?

All of this, on top of the current Wild West state of affairs in major college athletics, has no doubt undeniably taking a large chunk out of my interests, commitment, investment, etc., just as others here have shared. And, as peculiar/strange/foreign, etc. as this is for me personally, there has been a cleansing, relief type purging of my being, at least this compartment of it.

 

[rrlbees]

 

[bt4421]

Here's a topic I don't think has been discussed. There is a great deal of disenchantment among Syracuse fans with NIL, myself included. Is this a Syracuse thing? Is this a NE school thing? Is this an overall Syracuse type of school level thing? How do fans of the traditionally perceived pay-for-play SEC view NIL overall?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Have we dropped the “scholar” part of scholar-athlete yet? Inquiring minds are waiting…

Just do away with athletic scholarships altogether. Lets players go get their bags of cash and pay for school like everybody else. And if they don’t want to be students, who the hell cares.

Why can’t they be scholar athletes as much as they ever were? JGIii got NIL and great grades, too. Jimmy and Buddy got NIL and graduated. Fair is getting NIL on the ladies’ side and is getting NIL.

Now the youngsters are in the driver’s seat to manipulate the system for financial gain, and the “get of my porch” crowd isn’t happy. Too bad!

(By the way, this is the NCAA’s fault. If it hadn’t denied this fundamental right to student athletes, this fury of unleashed demand wouldn’t be occurring. It would just be par for the course common sense business.)

There have been posts about how these youngsters should know that “money doesn’t buy happiness” and the “grass isn’t always greener.” One only “knows” those things through the wisdom of age or their personal experience. Guess what? Their experience timetable is being sped up.

Moving big money sports into true minor leagues and away from educational bodies is probably best for everyone. Look at the countless sexual assaults and other acts of violence committed by scholarship athletes over the decades. Look at the institutional and community power wielded by coaches. Freaking coaches.

It’s not the beginning of the end, it’s the commencement of the next evolutionary phase of maturation of an industry that has spun out of control.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I will say what I always say when I read things like this: What specific services are these kids providing to earn this money. I want collectives to accurately document what is being required.

Why? It’s not your money. The players are offering their NIL for endorsements. That’s enough

 

[All4SU]

Why? It’s not your money. The players are offering their NIL for endorsements. That’s enough

Simple. So we know schools are not utilizing pay for play.

 

[OCESIP]

Initially Kavanaugh's concurring opinion regarding the 2021Alston vs NCAA case opened the whole
issue of NIL going forward, even though the ruling itself was very narrow, didn't address NIL, and only said the NCAA couldn't set limits on "education-related" rewards. Kavanaugh set the table for
the whole concept that potentially big time college sports could/should be treated as
a "business" by both sides (universities and players) in his opinion.

Until that issue gets litigated, NIL will continue to be a wild west scenario with everybody creating
their own opinion of what is right and what is wrong. Thank you Mr Kavanaugh!!

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Initially Kavanaugh's concurring opinion regarding the 2021Alston vs NCAA case opened the whole
issue of NIL going forward, even though the ruling itself was very narrow, didn't address NIL, and only said the NCAA couldn't set limits on "education-related" rewards. Kavanaugh set the table for
the whole concept that potentially big time college sports could/should be treated as
a "business" by both sides (universities and players) in his opinion.

Until that issue gets litigated, NIL will continue to be a wild west scenario with everybody creating
their own opinion of what is right and what is wrong. Thank you Mr Kavanaugh!!

He was spot on. The job is not to protect college sports.

 

[upperdeck]

all NIL has done is make an unlevel playing field even more unlevel. the NCAA was an attempt to give more teams a shot to win. SPending over time tilted it and now its gone beyond tilt.

 

[OCESIP]

He was spot on.

Conceptually perhaps, but It will leave many programs like SU on the outside looking in. They
just don't have the financial firepower to compete as a smallish private institution.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Conceptually perhaps, but It will leave many programs like SU on the outside looking in. They
just don't have the financial firepower to compete as a smallish private institution.

Well, since NIL is not the institution paying, isn’t it a question of alumni and community support. If SU’s plethora of millionaire and billionaire alumnus don’t want to step up financially to help their alma mater compete in the new world, isn’t that on SU?
If SU chases off a local billionaire ready to put up millions to secure talent, isn’t that an F.U. to the fans by SU?

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Here's a topic I don't think has been discussed. There is a great deal of disenchantment among Syracuse fans with NIL, myself included. Is this a Syracuse thing? Is this a NE school thing? Is this an overall Syracuse type of school level thing? How do fans of the traditionally perceived pay-for-play SEC view NIL overall?

Even with Georgetown Kent running off our visible booster who promised a couple big time players every year delivered by him personally our seat at the table isn’t that bad getting Starling and Westry two guys were were hot for as HS prospects.

This off-season should end up OK despite a lot of worst case scenario stuff happening… coaching turnover… Jesse poached by WVU… the public breakup with AW. I don’t see a reason to be long term pessimistic that the stars won’t align for us at some point in the future. You only need a couple great players in basketball then a handful of role players. We’ll be OK.

 

[djcon57]

all NIL has done is make an unlevel playing field even more unlevel. the NCAA was an attempt to give more teams a shot to win. SPending over time tilted it and now its gone beyond tilt.

You must have been outraged that Syracuse has had a better chance throughout the years to win than SUNY Albany due to money given to facilities, etc

 

[All4SU]

You must have been outraged that Syracuse has had a better chance throughout the years to win than SUNY Albany due to money given to facilities, etc

You must want the NFL to do away with team salary caps, so that big market teams will never lose again.

 

[djcon57]

You must want the NFL to do away with team salary caps, so that big market teams will never lose again.

the nfl has a players association that agrees to a salary cap.

also, your post didn’t address what i posted at all. are you a hypocrite or did you feel like it was unfair when we would outspend SUNY Albany and Colgate all these years?

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Among the many things that annoy me regarding NIL, the biggest is this:

Prior to NIL, there were two arguments that were made to support paying players. 1) if someone puts a player's name on a jersey and sells it, that person makes all the $$$ and the player makes none. I think we can all agree that is a very valid point in favor of compensating the athlete for his/her name.

2) The colleges make a ton of money from TV revenue and other areas, so the players should get a cut of that. Another valid argument. The counter valid argument would be that the player is already getting free tuition, room and board, and other perks that non-athletes don't get. In addition, some of the revenue is plowed back into facilities for the athletes. So, there are reasonable arguments to be had on both sides.

All of that goes out the window based upon how NIL has actually been set up. The players now get paid for their name, image, and likeness. They also get paid simply for playing and there is no way to sugar-coat that.

HOWEVER, the $$$ doesn't come from the colleges who are not allowed to pay the players directly. The $$$ comes from big donors and collectives that are funded by donations from smaller donors and fans.

So the athletes get paid, the college gets to keep all of its $$$ from TV etc, and the alums and fans foot the bill for the whole scheme. What a great deal...for the players and colleges.

 

[OCESIP]

the nfl has a players association that agrees to a salary cap.

also, your post didn’t address what i posted at all. are you a hypocrite or did you feel like it was unfair when we would outspend SUNY Albany and Colgate all these years?

SU out spends because they are in entirely different worlds when it comes to
their sports programs. When Albany or Colgate become part of the ACC we can
discuss who out spends who. Until then it's apples and oranges.

 

[djcon57]

SU out spends because they are in entirely different worlds when it comes to
their sports programs. When Albany or Colgate become part of the ACC we can
discuss who out spends who. Until then it's apples and oranges.

Right..so what’s the problem. The sec now outspends us. Apples and oranges. Only now it’s unfair. *shrug*

 

[OCESIP]

Among the many things that annoy me regarding NIL, the biggest is this:

Prior to NIL, there were two arguments that were made to support paying players. 1) if someone puts a player's name on a jersey and sells it, that person makes all the $$$ and the player makes none. I think we can all agree that is a very valid point in favor of compensating the athlete for his/her name.

2) The colleges make a ton of money from TV revenue and other areas, so the players should get a cut of that. Another valid argument. The counter valid argument would be that the player is already getting free tuition, room and board, and other perks that non-athletes don't get. In addition, some of the revenue is plowed back into facilities for the athletes. So, there are reasonable arguments to be had on both sides.

All of that goes out the window based upon how NIL has actually been set up. The players now get paid for their name, image, and likeness. They also get paid simply for playing and there is no way to sugar-coat that.

HOWEVER, the $$$ doesn't come from the colleges who are not allowed to pay the players directly. The $$$ comes from big donors and collectives that are funded by donations from smaller donors and fans.

So the athletes get paid, the college gets to keep all of its $$$ from TV etc, and the alums and fans foot the bill for the whole scheme. What a great deal...for the players and colleges.

Great points. My only issue is your next to last paragraph. What no one currently knows is how
schools (via the coaching staffs) interact with the donors/collectives to determine what prospective
players get what amount of $$. It is naive and illogical to think there isn't at least an indirect line of
communication that makes the school ultimately the decision maker.

 

[upperdeck]

You must have been outraged that Syracuse has had a better chance throughout the years to win than SUNY Albany due to money given to facilities, etc

I dont think it had anything to do with it given Albany was not even Div 1 competitive much of the time in any sport. I am not an SU alum but I could see the value of what they did.. And they do it all the time across many campuses in the state

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Great points. My only issue is your next to last paragraph. What no one currently knows is how
schools (via the coaching staffs) interact with the donors/collectives to determine what prospective
players get what amount of $$. It is naive and illogical to think there isn't at least an indirect line of
communication that makes the school ultimately the decision maker.

That has nothing do do with what I said.

It seems totally obvious that the school or at least the AD is acting to communicate from the the coaches to the donors which players get how much $$$. The point remains that the school itself doesn’t have to part with their own money to pay the players.

 

[All4SU]

the nfl has a players association that agrees to a salary cap.

also, your post didn’t address what i posted at all. are you a hypocrite or did you feel like it was unfair when we would outspend SUNY Albany and Colgate all these years?

I reserve the right to respond to things or not.
As far as Albany or other schools are concerned, I assume they do their own cost benefit analysis on their athletic programs.

As as as the NFL sis concerned, the player’s association agreed to the salary caps in the best interests of the league to keep all teams on equal footing. There is nothing like that in college sports right now….which is precisely what everyone is discussing.

 

[djcon57]

I reserve the right to respond to things or not.
As far as Albany or other schools are concerned, I assume they do their own cost benefit analysis on their athletic programs.

As as as the NFL sis concerned, the player’s association agreed to the salary caps in the best interests of the league to keep all teams on equal footing. There is nothing like that in college sports right now….which is precisely what everyone is discussing.

right. Again, the same folks, which all seem to be of a similar age range, are discussing a reality that doesn’t exist. you can’t cap NIL. It’s not realistic. it’s like asking the nba to cap shoe deals.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Among the many things that annoy me regarding NIL, the biggest is this:

Prior to NIL, there were two arguments that were made to support paying players. 1) if someone puts a player's name on a jersey and sells it, that person makes all the $$$ and the player makes none. I think we can all agree that is a very valid point in favor of compensating the athlete for his/her name.

2) The colleges make a ton of money from TV revenue and other areas, so the players should get a cut of that. Another valid argument. The counter valid argument would be that the player is already getting free tuition, room and board, and other perks that non-athletes don't get. In addition, some of the revenue is plowed back into facilities for the athletes. So, there are reasonable arguments to be had on both sides.

All of that goes out the window based upon how NIL has actually been set up. The players now get paid for their name, image, and likeness. They also get paid simply for playing and there is no way to sugar-coat that.

HOWEVER, the $$$ doesn't come from the colleges who are not allowed to pay the players directly. The $$$ comes from big donors and collectives that are funded by donations from smaller donors and fans.

So the athletes get paid, the college gets to keep all of its $$$ from TV etc, and the alums and fans foot the bill for the whole scheme. What a great deal...for the players and colleges.

Not sure where you get the last paragraph. Businesses and collectives voluntarily pay the players. Joe fan does have to shell out a dime.

 

[All4SU]

right. Again, the same folks, which all seem to be of a similar age range, are discussing a reality that doesn’t exist. you can’t cap NIL. It’s not realistic. it’s like asking the nba to cap shoe deals.

I didn’t ask for a cap on NIL. I asked for accountability - who is paying? How much? What services in return?

Seems simple to me. You want to retain eligibility to receive a college scholarship? This information has to be reported.