NJ

[wfschrec]

Ohio and NJ are very similar from a talent standpoint. I'm sure there are stats to support this but we'd have to define "second tier kids" which may be difficult after the fact.

That being said you make some good points however my argument is we aren't going to Michigan Indiana Colorado etc for their top talent. We are going for their second tier which isn't as good as NJs second tier. In fact I believe if more time was invested in NJ it would give SU a better chance at landing some top NJ kids from time to time. SU is still only a four hour drive away.

An example of "more time invested" could be giving Wheatley some NJ recruiting areas. Maybe he is already doing this but I haven't heard anything about that on the ground. It would be very strategic though. Tyrone played for the Giants when the current talent pool was growing up. Many of these kids were probably cheering Tyrone when they were young so having him recruit them would be a big deal. just an idea.

While I agree SU is playing catch up in NJ, at some point we just need to attack that head on and set us up long term in the state rather than considering it an afterthought. NJ is the most valuable football state in the region with the exception of PA. Much more valuable than NYC/LI/NY State. Anyone who saw the LI vs. NYC game last week knows what I'm talking about. The talent in that game was awful.


Ps...at the end of the day I'm not saying "only recruit nj kids". I just wish the state was made more of a priority, that's all.

When it came to my assessment of the OH vs NJ talent level I just looked at the number of offers/commits to D1 programs ... there are more in Ohio than I even thought ... I agree that spending time in NJ is good however I don't want it to affect what we are doing in other parts of the country ... the problem with sending Wheatley in there is that he seems to be tied to so many recruits I don't want our currently built relationships to suffer. Especially since it appears that because of us being able to get into various high schools we are able to get in on higher profile recruits coming through those programs earlier than some of our competition.

 

[TexanMark]

Why does it matter where they are from? Shouldn't we just go after the best prospects ranked on our board and if they are from Jersey then we recruit them?

Besides getting recruits from NY, I really don't care where we get them from.

We need to get back into NJ/E PA...a ton of Cuse students come from there...it only makes sense. It should be easier to convince a kid from Trenton and Allentown that Cuse should be their choice than a kid from Marietta and Waco.

But...the NJ HS FB scene is very provincial and a land mine filled with egotistical coaches with long memories. Schiano knew this and took advantage of it when Cuse was falling out of their last great run of excellence (85-01). The good news is Syracuse seems to becoming the #1 choice for NY City players in the 2-4 star range. However, you need an extra year or two seasoning on these kids. We should start to see some results the next two seasons.

 

[TexanMark]

When it came to my assessment of the OH vs NJ talent level I just looked at the number of offers/commits to D1 programs ... there are more in Ohio than I even thought ... I agree that spending time in NJ is good however I don't want it to affect what we are doing in other parts of the country ... the problem with sending Wheatley in there is that he seems to be tied to so many recruits I don't want our currently built relationships to suffer. Especially since it appears that because of us being able to get into various high schools we are able to get in on higher profile recruits coming through those programs earlier than some of our competition.

Finally, when our next assistant leaves...HCDM needs to hire a NNJ guy with deep roots...a Catholic guy would be the best.

 

[Franz69]

Here's a list from TOS that breaks down the number of D1 recruits that come from each state.

BY THE NUMBERS
A state-by-state breakdown of Division I FBS signees per participant. Data collected from participation stats distributed by the National Federation of High School Sports and signees as reported by Division I FBS schools and the database.
State

Signees​

Players​

Ratio​

Florida

344​

38,268​

111​

Louisiana

87​

14,839​

171​

Georgia

170​

32,088​

185​

Alabama

86​

22,052​

256​

Utah

30​

8,104​

270​

Oklahoma

44​

12,000​

272​

Maryland/D.C.

49​

16,123​

329​

Hawaii

14​

4,926​

352​

Ohio

144​

55,027​

382​

Arkansas

28​

11,120​

397​

California

253​

104,224​

412​

South Carolina

44​

18,962​

425​

Mississippi

52​

22,306​

429​

Delaware

7​

3,091​

442​

North Carolina

79​

35,214​

446​

Pennsylvania

60​

26,730​

446​

Texas

345​

161,210​

454​

Virginia

56​

25,651​

459​

Arizona

41​

19,103​

466​

Nevada

13​

6,594​

507​

Tennessee

44​

22,868​

520​

New Jersey

45​

25,872​

575​

Colorado

22​

14,825​

674​

Illinois

73​

49,543​

679​

Kansas

20​

14,302​

715​

Kentucky

19​

13,842​

729​

Michigan

59​

43,678​

740​

Indiana

31​

23,023​

743​

Washington

24​

22,422​

934​

New Mexico

8​

7,672​

959​

Oregon

11​

13,357​

1214​

Missouri

18​

23,504​

1306​

New York

29​

38,354​

1323​

Nebraska

8​

10,667​

1333​

Wisconsin

22​

29,442​

1338​

North Dakota

2​

3,018​

1509​

Massachusetts

12​

20,626​

1719​

Connecticut

6​

10,792​

1799​

Idaho

4​

7,340​

1835​

Alaska

1​

2,037​

2037​

West Virginia

3​

6,404​

2135​

Iowa

9​

19,451​

2161​

Minnesota

11​

25,433​

2312​

South Dakota

1​

3,756​

3756​

Maine

1​

4,024​

4024​

Montana

1​

4,775​

4775​

New Hampshire

0​

3,679​

0​

Rhode Island

0​

2,901​

0​

Vermont

0​

1,385​

0​

Wyoming

0​

2,654​

0​

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

Finally, when our next assistant leaves...HCDM needs to hire a NNJ guy with deep roots...a Catholic guy would be the best.

This is really the key. Complaining about our lack of productivity in NJ, when the staff clearly does not view the State as a priority right now, is asinine. You dont see Nova on here complaining about Marrone and Virginia, or anyone saying, "why are we ignoring the talent rich state of California." Once the staff shows they are dedicating resources to Eastern PA or NJ, i.e., by hiring a coach with good ties there, then we can complain if the results are lacking.

Someone posted at the end of the season that Marrone felt the key to success at this point was getting better coaching, nor recruiting. That is why Conley (who I think we can all agree is as Orange as they come) was jettisoned in favor of Morrison, and Henderson, a man with NFL coordinator experience, was selected rather than splashing cash on someone like Hafley, who is largely unproven as a coach, but can recruit the out of Jersey.

 

[CaliCuse]

from what you have told us, it should not be a surprise

hopefully over the next few years relationships can be mended and we can start landing some early commits from some Jersey Boys

can't help but remember when George Deleone used to sweep the state and shmooze all the head coaches for information on prospects and then bring the players into the program.

 

[Czar]

Newark is a dump

The suburbs around it are not though.

 

[Czar]

Honestly, the best way for SU to improve as a program, is to try to convince the NYSPHSAA and the State Education Department to treat football with as much importance as states like PA, OH, and the south (e.g., spring practice, year round lifting, 7-on-7, allow athletes to play multiple sports in season, loosen PE requirements). Until then, SU will always be at a handicap recruiting. The reason SU is such a lax power, is the same reason SU has an uphill battle in football.

This is probably the most relevant statement in terms of Syracuse recruiting given in this thread. Want the best way to increase the quality of recruits coming to SU? Get the NYSPHSAA out of its ass and make Upstate NY the football hotbed it should be.

 

[Aweart23]

An example of "more time invested" could be giving Wheatley some NJ recruiting areas. Maybe he is already doing this but I haven't heard anything about that on the ground. It would be very strategic though. Tyrone played for the Giants when the current talent pool was growing up. Many of these kids were probably cheering Tyrone when they were young so having him recruit them would be a big deal. just an idea.

Ps...at the end of the day I'm not saying "only recruit nj kids". I just wish the state was made more of a priority, that's all.

WOW...That's a great idea!!! Having someone recruit NJ who played pro football in NJ...I wish HCDM had thought of that!!!

Wait a minute...didn't Rob Moore play pro football in NJ?? Oh and didn't Rob grow up somewhere near NJ? Hempstead, Long Island...

BTW The current crop of High school seniors were 3 years old when Wheatley left for Oakland (1998) They hardly grew up watching him in NJ and cheering for him...

So why is having a NY guy, an alumni of Syracuse, who played pro football in New Jersey bad in your eyes but having a mid west guy, whose connection to NJ is 4 years with the giants a great idea??

 

[rrlbees]

WOW...That's a great idea!!! Having someone recruit NJ who played pro football in NJ...I wish HCDM had thought of that!!!

Wait a minute...didn't Rob Moore play pro football in NJ?? Oh and didn't Rob grow up somewhere near NJ? Hempstead, Long Island...

BTW The current crop of High school seniors were 3 years old when Wheatley left for Oakland (1998) They hardly grew up watching him in NJ and cheering for him...

So why is having a NY guy, an alumni of Syracuse, who played pro football in New Jersey bad in your eyes but having a mid west guy, whose connection to NJ is 4 years with the giants a great idea??

Moore is no Wheatley as a recruiter. Plus I bet NJ kids know Wheatley's name more so than Robs.

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[wfschrec]

Here's a list from TOS that breaks down the number of D1 recruits that come from each state.

BY THE NUMBERS
A state-by-state breakdown of Division I FBS signees per participant. Data collected from participation stats distributed by the National Federation of High School Sports and signees as reported by Division I FBS schools and the ********** database.
State

Signees​

Players​

Ratio​

Florida

344​

38,268​

111​

Louisiana

87​

14,839​

171​

Georgia

170​

32,088​

185​

Alabama

86​

22,052​

256​

Utah

30​

8,104​

270​

Oklahoma

44​

12,000​

272​

Maryland/D.C.

49​

16,123​

329​

Hawaii

14​

4,926​

352​

Ohio

144​

55,027​

382​

Arkansas

28​

11,120​

397​

California

253​

104,224​

412​

South Carolina

44​

18,962​

425​

Mississippi

52​

22,306​

429​

Delaware

7​

3,091​

442​

North Carolina

79​

35,214​

446​

Pennsylvania

60​

26,730​

446​

Texas

345​

161,210​

454​

Virginia

56​

25,651​

459​

Arizona

41​

19,103​

466​

Nevada

13​

6,594​

507​

Tennessee

44​

22,868​

520​

New Jersey

45​

25,872​

575​

Colorado

22​

14,825​

674​

Illinois

73​

49,543​

679​

Kansas

20​

14,302​

715​

Kentucky

19​

13,842​

729​

Michigan

59​

43,678​

740​

Indiana

31​

23,023​

743​

Washington

24​

22,422​

934​

New Mexico

8​

7,672​

959​

Oregon

11​

13,357​

1214​

Missouri

18​

23,504​

1306​

New York

29​

38,354​

1323​

Nebraska

8​

10,667​

1333​

Wisconsin

22​

29,442​

1338​

North Dakota

2​

3,018​

1509​

Massachusetts

12​

20,626​

1719​

Connecticut

6​

10,792​

1799​

Idaho

4​

7,340​

1835​

Alaska

1​

2,037​

2037​

West Virginia

3​

6,404​

2135​

Iowa

9​

19,451​

2161​

Minnesota

11​

25,433​

2312​

South Dakota

1​

3,756​

3756​

Maine

1​

4,024​

4024​

Montana

1​

4,775​

4775​

New Hampshire

0​

3,679​

0​

Rhode Island

0​

2,901​

0​

Vermont

0​

1,385​

0​

Wyoming

0​

2,654​

0​

Well the numbers don't lie ... what I want to know is why aren't we making a splash in Wyoming, Vermont, RI or New Hampshire? Its wide open baby ...

 

[wfschrec]

Moore is no Wheatley as a recruiter. Plus I bet NJ kids know Wheatley's name more so than Robs.

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Yep lets take a guy who is recruiting the talent in Michigan, Ohio and other parts of that country with success ... a place he is native to and replace the recruiter in NJ ... who by the way was born and raised a stones throw from there ... with him because kids know his name but he has no relationship with anyone there at all. Pick a side and stick with it .. you want someone with ties and has a history there ... or you don't ... I mean why not take our most successful recruiter out of the areas where he is having success and stick him in an area where many including yourself have insisted we have ground to make up ... either hire a guy who has a history there or let Moore grow ... you don't move your ace recruiter to an area we have struggled to recruit for some time now when he is making inroads effectively elsewhere ... especially in a state like Ohio which cited in the chart above has a much more fertile talent base.

 

[Aweart23]

Moore is no Wheatley as a recruiter. Plus I bet NJ kids know Wheatley's name more so than Robs.

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1. That's not what he said
2. I bet the kids in Big Ten Country know Wheatleys name way more than the kids in NJ
3. And the fact that Wheatley is a better recruiter is exactly why he shouldn't be in NJ.

We need to close the talent gap as quickly as possible. Why wouldn't you put Wheatley where he can make the biggest impact the quickest???

If the fences need to be mended as much as Deep says, that ain't NJ...

 

[wfschrec]

1. That's not what he said
2. I bet the kids in Big Ten Country know Wheatleys name way more than the kids in NJ
3. And the fact that Wheatley is a better recruiter is exactly why he shouldn't be in NJ.

We need to close the talent gap as quickly as possible. Why wouldn't you put Wheatley where he can make the biggest impact the quickest???

If the fences need to be mended as much as Deep says, that ain't NJ...

Ah yes a voice of reason!!!

 

[rrlbees]

Yep lets take a guy who is recruiting the talent in Michigan, Ohio and other parts of that country with success ... a place he is native to and replace the recruiter in NJ ... who by the way was born and raised a stones throw from there ... with him because kids know his name but he has no relationship with anyone there at all. Pick a side and stick with it .. you want someone with ties and has a history there ... or you don't ... I mean why not take our most successful recruiter out of the areas where he is having success and stick him in an area where many including yourself have insisted we have ground to make up ... either hire a guy who has a history there or let Moore grow ... you don't move your ace recruiter to an area we have struggled to recruit for some time now when he is making inroads effectively elsewhere ... especially in a state like Ohio which cited in the chart above has a much more fertile talent base.

Actually I never said move Wheatley I only responded.to a snarly post about Moore and Wheatley.

Its funny how much up in arms people have gotten about this because a few people suggest we should focus more on NJ for the very reasons a lot of people used to laud SU for their efforts there before. Some of you think we are saying drop everything else and go balls to the wall on NJ, when nobody has said that.

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[rrlbees]

1. That's not what he said
2. I bet the kids in Big Ten Country know Wheatleys name way more than the kids in NJ
3. And the fact that Wheatley is a better recruiter is exactly why he shouldn't be in NJ.

We need to close the talent gap as quickly as possible. Why wouldn't you put Wheatley where he can make the biggest impact the quickest???

If the fences need to be mended as much as Deep says, that ain't NJ...

Wheat was used as an example. I could say who should be there but wont.

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[bnoro]

I just don't know why it's so important to get Jersey kids if we are getting kids that are just as good from Michigan, Georgia, and Texas.

Why do we have to get Jersey kids? The argument so far is that it is within 6 hours. Well, Michigan is probably 2 hours max on a plane. Georgia's 3 at most. If we have success recruiting nationally, then let's keep doing it, while Moore builds connections in NJ and then maybe we'll get a few kids out of there. Just because we won some games back in the 80s with Jersey kids people get up in arms about not having enough kids from NJ.

 

[Rocco]

To hell with Joisey...

 

[wfschrec]

Actually I never said move Wheatley I only responded.to a snarly post about Moore and Wheatley.

Its funny how much up in arms people have gotten about this because a few people suggest we should focus more on NJ for the very reasons a lot of people used to laud SU for their efforts there before. Some of you think we are saying drop everything else and go balls to the wall on NJ, when nobody has said that.

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Actually the people up in arms are the ones that continue to bemoan the fact that we don't recruit NJ enough .. its a topic some won't let die ... ok so we don't recruit it like we used to ... whoopty friggin doo ... I don't care what state we recruit if we are upgrading talent give me a kid from Alaska ... I have stated before we have pulled a lot of talent from places other than NJ and if you want to talk about snarly posts you have posted your fair share as we all have ... my memory isn't "short" on that.

And once again you missed the point ... why risk losing the recruiting momentum in other areas to repair what you and several others have insisted is a seriously damaged relationship? And as for using Wheatley as an example it was easy to perceive it being more than that when it came on the heels of a post using that same exact suggestions. And FWIW when I use someone as an example I literally say "Like Wheatley for example" ...

I literally have stated numerous times I want the best talent possible and I don't care where it comes from ... and frankly if you read the chart cited earlier there are a hell of a lot more places than NJ to go and get quality talent ... like Ohio which while outside the 6 hour radius you cite has a lot more to offer than NJ and seems to be a place where a few of our guys have made some inroads.

We have been behind in recruiting since Marrone arrived and they are now finally catching up ... when the time comes hire a guy to recruit NJ if you need to ... but don't spend extra time coddling a bunch of people with hurt feelings because they had a sour relationship with the previous coaching staff, when/if we get way out in front recruiting wise then invest the extra time ... we just don't have the time or resources to spare now.

 

[wfschrec]

I just don't know why it's so important to get Jersey kids if we are getting kids that are just as good from Michigan, Georgia, and Texas.

Why do we have to get Jersey kids? The argument so far is that it is within 6 hours. Well, Michigan is probably 2 hours max on a plane. Georgia's 3 at most. If we have success recruiting nationally, then let's keep doing it, while Moore builds connections in NJ and then maybe we'll get a few kids out of there. Just because we won some games back in the 80s with Jersey kids people get up in arms about not having enough kids from NJ.

You are preaching to the choir on this one ... and again it seems to go back to a divide in demographics with respect to age that you see this argument breaking open ... the older guard bemoans the loss of NJ ... the younger guys just say ... go border to border.

 

[orange79]

Why do we have to get Jersey kids?

To put some hurt on the Girls?

 

[wfschrec]

To put some hurt on the Girls?

Since Marrone got to the hill we have done that a few times without having to recruit the same players ...

 

[Aweart23]

Wheat was used as an example. I could say who should be there but wont.

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Do tell...

And if I was overly snarly, I apologize..but if I had a nickel for every time some posters take shots at the staff for our current status in NJ, I'd be a rich man...and the routine gets old after a while

Do you know why New Yorkers are so depressed all the time??

because the light at the end of their tunnel is New Jersey...

Thank you folks, I'll be here all week

 

[CIL]

Those numbers say NJ is overrated.

 

[wfschrec]

Do tell...

And if I was overly snarly, I apologize..but if I had a nickel for every time some posters take shots at the staff for our current status in NJ, I'd be a rich man...and the routine gets old after a while

Do you know why New Yorkers are so depressed all the time??

because the light at the end of their tunnel is New Jersey...

Thank you folks, I'll be here all week

Sarcastic yes ... snarly no ... no more snarly than most of us on this board anyway ...