NJ

[wfschrec]

Dulayne Morgan, 1st Team USA-Today All-American. Kevin Johnson, Super Prep Northeast Offensive Prospect of the Year, Johnnie Morant was a top 50 prospect by about every service. Darius, Tyree, Spotwood, Maurice McClain, Jared Jones, John Wellington were all Super Prep All-Americans as preps. Brad Patkochis (sp?) was a top ten prospect in Jersey that year. And that's just off the top of my head.

Ok so Darius was ... apparently my memory isn't that short after all ...

 

[wfschrec]

Dulayne Morgan, 1st Team USA-Today All-American. Kevin Johnson, Super Prep Northeast Offensive Prospect of the Year, Johnnie Morant was a top 50 prospect by about every service. Darius, Tyree, Spotwood, Maurice McClain, Jared Jones, John Wellington were all Super Prep All-Americans as preps. Brad Patkochis (sp?) was a top ten prospect in Jersey that year. And that's just off the top of my head.

And yet just from NYC/LI we ended up with Donnie Mac, Bulluck, Marrone, Greenwood, Clifton Smith, Rob Moore and on and on ... and NYC will always be there ...

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

For those who don't agree that NJ should be a recruiting priority and/or the talent levels are overblown...there have already been 19 BCS commitments from the state. This is remarkable for June. Can't believe Syracuse doesn't have at least one.

SU needs to land the 20 best recruits it can in any given year. I personally dont really care where they are from. But it is obvious that NJ and Eastern PA (and maybe now western), are not the priorities they once were. That's ok by me. This insistence that we have to get back into NJ has no merit, and the notion that we need NJ to be successful is unfounded. The programs five best players ever were from NY, NY, CT, IL and CT respectively. During the programs greatest years in the last three decades, the team was led by All-Americans from NY and IL (McPherson and McNabb). The most prolific defenders we had during that same time were from NY (Green and Bullock). In the last 6 years, the three best players were NYers (Jones, Williams and Jones).

The recruiting strategy is clear. Hammer away at NYC and LI. Pull what we can from the limited connections in NJ, MD, and PA. And recruit the 2nd tier kids from GA, FL and TX, while building inroads in OH, IN and MI (Shafer, Wheatley, Morrison, and Daoust).

Honestly, the best way for SU to improve as a program, is to try to convince the NYSPHSAA and the State Education Department to treat football with as much importance as states like PA, OH, and the south (e.g., spring practice, year round lifting, 7-on-7, allow athletes to play multiple sports in season, loosen PE requirements). Until then, SU will always be at a handicap recruiting. The reason SU is such a lax power, is the same reason SU has an uphill battle in football.

 

[rrlbees]

And yet just from NYC/LI we ended up with Donnie Mac, Bulluck, Marrone, Greenwood, Clifton Smith, Rob Moore and on and on ... and NYC will always be there ...

Yep.

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[orangenauburn]

I am not arguing ... we need NJ too

Just do not know how feasible it is to expect a lot from there right now until we start mending relationships and start winning games again

 

[RF2044]

NJ has talent but it isn't the end all ... frankly if we can still pull talent from GA, NYC, MI, OH and now TX I can live with that ... what do Freeney, the McIntosh's, Bullock, McNabb, Harrison, Tebucky Jones, Walter Reyes, Delone Carter, Jameel McClain, Clifton Smith, Morlon Greenwood, Doug Hogue, Derrell Smith etc. have in common? None are from NJ .. not sure how its the end all lifeblood of the Cuse program. I understand that there are some really good players that have come out of NJ, I won't deny it but we can be successful without it. Would I love to see us get some of the best talent in NJ? Sure ... but I would also love to see us get the top talent in every state. I still insist the importance of that state is much more overstated now since we entered the ACC and are now able to pull talent from the Southeast. Quite frankly when they get to triple digits in D1 commits like GA, CA, FL or TX then I'll set up camp in NJ.

Disagree--NJ is LOADED with D1 football talent--I'd put them on the same level as PA in terms of quality prospects. It WAS the lifeblood of the program during that era. You mentioned some great players from that timeframe, but I could post in equally impressive list of players hailing from several states [starting with Kevin Johnson, Dulayne Morgan, Quinton Spotwood, Donovin Darius amongst many others--Crales has the list above] that came from Jersey alone. In football recruiting, there is no question that Florida, Ohio, Texas, and California are the premiere states, but PA, NJ, etc. are clearly in that second tier. It borders our state, is within the magic "5 hour" radius from campus, and clearly should be a focal point of our recruiting efforts.

Recognizing that fact doesn't mean that we have to sacrifice recruiting in other regions. I don't view those things as being mutually exclusive. I absolutely want to do better in NY, GA, FL, etc. I'm very encouraged that we seem to be breaking in in Texas, as well, but I don't foresee us ever competing for top players from TX against the powerhouse programs in that region. But I also want to see us break through again closer to home in NJ.

One more thing about that list above--there were SEVERAL players you list that came from the state of CT, which we used to own when P was coach, before UConn went D1. That state is pretty much closed to us now, as well. Not sure that we'll ever be a factor there like we used to be, but our inability to extract talent there when it was such a staple of our success before is another example of what happens when recruiting inroads dry up, just like they did in NJ.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Disagree--NJ is LOADED with D1 football talent--I'd put them on the same level as PA in terms of quality prospects. It WAS the lifeblood of the program during that era. You mentioned some great players from that timeframe, but I could post in equally impressive list of players [starting with Kevin Johnson, Dulayne Morgan, Quinton Spotwood, Donovin Darius amongst many others--Crales has the list above] that were from Jersey. In football recruiting, there is no question that Florida, Ohio, Texas, and California are the premiere states, but PA, NJ, etc. are clearly in that second tier. It borders our state, is within the magic "5 hour" radius from campus, and clearly should be a focal point of our recruiting efforts."quote]

Wouldn't got that far. Have we ever had a roster that was made up of >20% NJ players?

 

[bnoro]

Why does it matter where they are from? Shouldn't we just go after the best prospects ranked on our board and if they are from Jersey then we recruit them?

Besides getting recruits from NY, I really don't care where we get them from.

 

[wfschrec]

Disagree--NJ is LOADED with D1 football talent--I'd put them on the same level as PA in terms of quality prospects. It WAS the lifeblood of the program during that era. You mentioned some great players from that timeframe, but I could post in equally impressive list of players hailing from several states [starting with Kevin Johnson, Dulayne Morgan, Quinton Spotwood, Donovin Darius amongst many others--Crales has the list above] that came from Jersey alone. In football recruiting, there is no question that Florida, Ohio, Texas, and California are the premiere states, but PA, NJ, etc. are clearly in that second tier. It borders our state, is within the magic "5 hour" radius from campus, and clearly should be a focal point of our recruiting efforts.

Recognizing that fact doesn't mean that we have to sacrifice recruiting in other regions. I don't view those things as being mutually exclusive. I absolutely want to do better in NY, GA, FL, etc. I'm very encouraged that we seem to be breaking in in Texas, as well, but I don't foresee us ever competing for top players from TX against the powerhouse programs in that region. But I also want to see us break through again closer to home in NJ.

One more thing about that list above--there were SEVERAL players you list that came from the state of CT, which we used to own when P was coach, before UConn went D1. That state is pretty much closed to us now, as well. Not sure that we'll ever be a factor there like we used to be, but our inability to extract talent there when it was such a staple of our success before is another example of what happens when recruiting inroads dry up, just like they did in NJ.

Go ahead and sacrifice the gains we have made in other states ... you listed a handful of players ... I listed equally as many from NYC/LI and another list from CN ... which if anything those areas are as equally important as NJ ... if not more so. Again the 100th ranked player in a state like GA or TX or FL would be in the top 30 in NJ ... period ... D1 offers highlight that. To call it the lifeblood is terribly over dramatic ... and again its a new era in recruiting ... I work with enough people that do things "because that is the way we've always done it" and progress goes by the way side ... heaven forbid we look at getting the best players available regardless of state. This whole line of thinking is mind blowing to me. Some of the best players we have had in the past 5 years were not Mele or any of the other Jersey boys ... they were LBs from Yonkers and Delaware ... an RB from Ohio ... a DE from Endicott ... a WR from Buffalo ... a TE from Florida ... good grief this whole thing makes my head hurt ... and if you say a state is loaded with talent I want to see triple digit D1 athletes ... not 30 or 40 ... GA, FL, TX, CA .. well you get the drift.

 

[wfschrec]

Why does it matter where they are from? Shouldn't we just go after the best prospects ranked on our board and if they are from Jersey then we recruit them?

Besides getting recruits from NY, I really don't care where we get them from.

It doesn't matter to me I've stated that numerous times ... but it would be interesting to see the demographic breakdown of those who lean towards NJ vice those who don't see it as a valuable entity ... it almost seems like the older guard leans that way since it was at one point a fertile ground for Cuse ... while the younger generation doesn't give a damn ... just give them the best on the board, mainly because those with "short memories" weren't following the program when NJ was a hotbed ... mainly due to age would be my assumption ... hell I was a frosh at Cuse during Harrison's senior season on the hill and McNabb's first under center.

 

[RF2044]

Why does it matter where they are from? Shouldn't we just go after the best prospects ranked on our board and if they are from Jersey then we recruit them?

Besides getting recruits from NY, I really don't care where we get them from.

I think most people agree with the philosophy of landing the best prospects you can, regardless of where they're from. But when your primary recruiting territory has a hole in it, that compromises your ability to reel in the best talent.

I want to clarify my post above--I'm not advocating that we focus exclusively on NJ. Frankly, I believe that Marrone is onto something with this untapped NYC population, and I think that strategy is going to pay dividends. I also think that in many [most?] cases, it is going to take two years of being immersed in our program for some of the NYC kids to get coached up to the level of their counterparts from more football intensive states. That's not a bad "problem" when our roster is solid and we have decent talent in the pipeline, because we won't be relying upon those players to fill out our depth chart early in their careers.

We need to do a better job of recruiting, period--which I don't think anyone will argue with--and it doesn't really matter to me if they come from NY state, New England, the midwest, or down south. But I'm very, very encouraged by the kids we're bringing in. I think each class has gotten progressively better [in terms of offer lists] for each successive class Marrone has brought in, and that will eventually start to show in the product on the field. We still lack depth at a few positional units, but we're making solid progress. I just want to see us be able to mine solid talent from NJ, given the quality of talent in that state and it's relative proximity to CNY, as we continue to build.

 

[RF2044]

Go ahead and sacrifice the gains we have made in other states ... you listed a handful of players ... I listed equally as many from NYC/LI and another list from CN ... which if anything those areas are as equally important as NJ ... if not more so. Again the 100th ranked player in a state like GA or TX or FL would be in the top 30 in NJ ... period ... D1 offers highlight that. To call it the lifeblood is terribly over dramatic ... and again its a new era in recruiting ... I work with enough people that do things "because that is the way we've always done it" and progress goes by the way side ... heaven forbid we look at getting the best players available regardless of state. This whole line of thinking is mind blowing to me. Some of the best players we have had in the past 5 years were not Mele or any of the other Jersey boys ... they were LBs from Yonkers and Delaware ... an RB from Ohio ... a DE from Endicott ... a WR from Buffalo ... a TE from Florida ... good grief this whole thing makes my head hurt ... and if you say a state is loaded with talent I want to see triple digit D1 athletes ... not 30 or 40 ... GA, FL, TX, CA .. well you get the drift.

If your conclusion after reading my posts above is that we need to get back into NJ because "that's the way we've always done it," you have really mischaracterized my position.

And there is a reason that none of the players in the past five years was Jersey boys. That reason is something that we need to overcome as we ascend back toward respectability.

 

[wfschrec]

If your conclusion after reading my posts above is that we need to get back into NJ because "that's the way we've always done it," you have really mischaracterized my position.

And there is a reason that none of the players in the past five years was Jersey boys. That reason is something that we need to overcome as we ascend back toward respectability.

Not necessarily you ... but I have been told I have a short memory and all one hears is about a different era ... many can't seem to get over that ... just reread the entire thread and you will see what I mean. I work with that mindset a lot ... frankly its a phrase that is bandied about all too often, if you wish to succeed you should evolve or run the risk of being passed by. If getting some of these guys guarantee success I wonder why Rutgers is meddling along right at our level ... they grab quite a few of the top 40 in that state ... hey Rutgers how did that work out for you? The fact is for us to get the cream of the crop in that state we still have to square off against the heavies (ND, UF, PSU, etc) ... and again ... 30-40 D1 caliber players does not a loaded state make ...

 

[rrlbees]

Not necessarily you ... but I have been told I have a short memory and all one hears is about a different era ... many can't seem to get over that ... just reread the entire thread and you will see what I mean. I work with that mindset a lot ... frankly its a phrase that is bandied about all too often, if you wish to succeed you should evolve or run the risk of being passed by. If getting some of these guys guarantee success I wonder why Rutgers is meddling along right at our level ... they grab quite a few of the top 40 in that state ... hey Rutgers how did that work out for you? The fact is for us to get the cream of the crop in that state we still have to square off against the heavies (ND, UF, PSU, etc) ... and again ... 30-40 D1 caliber players does not a loaded state make ...

Short memory or no memory since you had no recollection or the many great players we have pulled from NJ. But you and I are talking completely different things. You seem to think people are saying forget Ga or Michigan. Nobody said that. You think people are saying go after NJ at the expense of other areas. Nobody said that. What people have said is that NJ is in Su's recruiting sphere by distance. I net even Marrone has talked about a 6 hour radius. NJ will always be in that radius and should be ONE of our areas of great attention. As coaches come and go and relationships come and go in other states, that 6 hour radius NEVER changes ans the reason why schools focus on that radius while hitting others because a coach has a relationship with a school or area.

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[ImperialOrange]

Short memory or no memory since you had no recollection or the many great players we have pulled from NJ. But you and I are talking completely different things. You seem to think people are saying forget Ga or Michigan. Nobody said that. You think people are saying go after NJ at the expense of other areas. Nobody said that. What people have said is that NJ is in Su's recruiting sphere by distance. I net even Marrone has talked about a 6 hour radius. NJ will always be in that radius and should be ONE of our areas of great attention. As coaches come and go and relationships come and go in other states, that 6 hour radius NEVER changes ans the reason why schools focus on that radius while hitting others because a coach has a relationship with a school or area.

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In order of importance, how would you rank NJ, Baltimore/DC Metro, Eastern OH to Western PA (Cleveland to Pittsburgh) to recruit well?

 

[wfschrec]

Short memory or no memory since you had no recollection or the many great players we have pulled from NJ. But you and I are talking completely different things. You seem to think people are saying forget Ga or Michigan. Nobody said that. You think people are saying go after NJ at the expense of other areas. Nobody said that. What people have said is that NJ is in Su's recruiting sphere by distance. I net even Marrone has talked about a 6 hour radius. NJ will always be in that radius and should be ONE of our areas of great attention. As coaches come and go and relationships come and go in other states, that 6 hour radius NEVER changes ans the reason why schools focus on that radius while hitting others because a coach has a relationship with a school or area.

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Actually Bees ... I did .. I even cited Spotwood before you did ... I also named a ton of non-NJ players that impacted this program ... What I am saying is that if you go all in on NJ it will affect other areas ... and if Marrone has talked about a 6 hour radius it appears his offer list reflects something other than that does it not? Honestly I swear you argue just to argue ...

 

[boog7]

And yet just from NYC/LI we ended up with Donnie Mac, Bulluck, Marrone, Greenwood, Clifton Smith, Rob Moore and on and on ... and NYC will always be there ...

Jim Brown

 

[FranCuse]

Getting inroads to NJ is very important. One of the more attractive components of recruiting NJ is quick/direct flights to Newark an because it is so densely populated, a coach can hit a lot of schools/recruits in a short period of time. Efficient recruiting. The quick/reasonably priced flight from Newark also makes SU an attractive school for recruit's parents.

 

[orangenauburn]

Getting inroads to NJ is very important. One of the more attractive components of recruiting NJ is quick/direct flights to Newark an because it is so densely populated, a coach can hit a lot of schools/recruits in a short period of time. Efficient recruiting. The quick/reasonably priced flight from Newark also makes SU an attractive school for recruit's parents.

Newark is a dump

 

[RF2044]

Not necessarily you ... but I have been told I have a short memory and all one hears is about a different era ... many can't seem to get over that ... just reread the entire thread and you will see what I mean. I work with that mindset a lot ... frankly its a phrase that is bandied about all too often, if you wish to succeed you should evolve or run the risk of being passed by. If getting some of these guys guarantee success I wonder why Rutgers is meddling along right at our level ... they grab quite a few of the top 40 in that state ... hey Rutgers how did that work out for you? The fact is for us to get the cream of the crop in that state we still have to square off against the heavies (ND, UF, PSU, etc) ... and again ... 30-40 D1 caliber players does not a loaded state make ...

Fair enough on the first part of your response.

But I'll contend that the REAL reason Rutgers sucked was because their coaching staff sucked. It had little to do with where their talent base came from, as you contend.

 

[SmilinBob]

NJ does have a lot of talent and it's possible some ego's are in conflict for what may be best for the players not the high school coaches as it seems it has been harder building the relationships there than other areas. From what I gather, is that Marrone and staff have gone to their solid relationships then built some new ones and are still working on others. Georgia, Florida, Michigan and Texas come to mind as ones they've had built or have done a wonderful job nurturing/recruiting and the more SUcess we have, the better our chances are they'll continue that path.

As I've mentioned many times before, as long as Marrone and staff get more of a percentage of their targeted recruits the better this team will be. While many coaches may be star grazers and look to the recruiting services Marrone and staff have been working hard evaluating HS players and this is the key, they are looking for what they want and I firmly believe this ship has been righted recruiting wise. I agree that nailing down NY is the key and will build us a solid base. Jersey kids will come to SU, don't panic by any means...it may be trickle down recruiting but they'll get their share of targeted players (some years better than others) and I like what I've seen from the kids Marrone has already got from Jersey.

 

[cusestudent]

Getting inroads to NJ is very important. One of the more attractive components of recruiting NJ is quick/direct flights to Newark an because it is so densely populated, a coach can hit a lot of schools/recruits in a short period of time. Efficient recruiting. The quick/reasonably priced flight from Newark also makes SU an attractive school for recruit's parents.

NJ is not nearly as deep as PA, OH, GA, FL, CA, TX, MI. Even VA, SC, NC, etc are deeper. Some talk about the quality and star power out of NJ, but I would love to see how many of them pan out. If you're not in on the top 20-30 kids out of NJ then you are just wasting time that could spent in states that the staff has shown we get good talent out of. Look at the guys Marrone has on staff. You can easily tell he is focused on NY, GA, FL, MI, OH, and is now pushing to the West Coast. This isn't the 1980s anymore, and we can't compete with PSU, ND, OSU for recruits in NJ. We need to find the so-called "second tier kids" that have huge potential from states that put out tons of high quality recruits. We seem to be doing just fine without any Jersey recruits right now. It's not that important, only NY is very important for us.

 

[DeepThrowIt]

NJ is not nearly as deep as PA, OH, GA, FL, CA, TX, MI. Even VA, SC, NC, etc are deeper. Some talk about the quality and star power out of NJ, but I would love to see how many of them pan out. If you're not in on the top 20-30 kids out of NJ then you are just wasting time that could spent in states that the staff has shown we get good talent out of. Look at the guys Marrone has on staff. You can easily tell he is focused on NY, GA, FL, MI, OH, and is now pushing to the West Coast. This isn't the 1980s anymore, and we can't compete with PSU, ND, OSU for recruits in NJ. We need to find the so-called "second tier kids" that have huge potential from states that put out tons of high quality recruits. We seem to be doing just fine without any Jersey recruits right now. It's not that important, only NY is very important for us.

Three short years ago there were seven NFL first round draft picks from NJ. It is a deeper state than you are giving credit for.

Yes, I will concede that TX, FL, and Georgia are deeper than NJ. That's it. Ohio's second tier kids are comparable to NJ. NJ second tier kids are better than Michigan's, Indiana's, etc.

What I don't understand is why SU is going to those states for their second tier kids when there are better players within 4 hours. Instead of spreading the staff out so much and try to recruit nationally (SU is not Tennessee folks and that is where our strategy was developed) which is very risky, we should be spending more time repairing and developing relationships locally.

With RU in transition, HCDM had the perfect opportunity to hire someone with strong NJ ties this off season and the fact that he didn't gives me the impression that NJ isn't a priority which for Syracuse is a huge mistake.

 

[wfschrec]

Three short years ago there were seven NFL first round draft picks from NJ. It is a deeper state than you are giving credit for.

Yes, I will concede that TX, FL, and Georgia are deeper than NJ. That's it. Ohio's second tier kids are comparable to NJ. NJ second tier kids are better than Michigan's, Indiana's, etc.

What I don't understand is why SU is going to those states for their second tier kids when there are better players within 4 hours. Instead of spreading the staff out so much and try to recruit nationally (SU is not Tennessee folks and that is where our strategy was developed) which is very risky, we should be spending more time repairing and developing relationships locally.

With RU in transition, HCDM had the perfect opportunity to hire someone with strong NJ ties this off season and the fact that he didn't gives me the impression that NJ isn't a priority which for Syracuse is a huge mistake.

I beg to differ with regards to Ohio .. however I would agree on the other states ... the difference I think is mainly that the staff has inroads with the higher tier talent in a state like Michigan instead of NJ and because of that fact they focus there ... plus as has been stated a billion times on this board they have ground to make up in NJ so why not pursue guys you have a chance to get in another state instead of spending your resources playing catchup ... we aren't at a point where we can afford to do that.

 

[DeepThrowIt]

I beg to differ with regards to Ohio .. however I would agree on the other states ... the difference I think is mainly that the staff has inroads with the higher tier talent in a state like Michigan instead of NJ and because of that fact they focus there ... plus as has been stated a billion times on this board they have ground to make up in NJ so why not pursue guys you have a chance to get in another state instead of spending your resources playing catchup ... we aren't at a point where we can afford to do that.

Ohio and NJ are very similar from a talent standpoint. I'm sure there are stats to support this but we'd have to define "second tier kids" which may be difficult after the fact.

That being said you make some good points however my argument is we aren't going to Michigan Indiana Colorado etc for their top talent. We are going for their second tier which isn't as good as NJs second tier. In fact I believe if more time was invested in NJ it would give SU a better chance at landing some top NJ kids from time to time. SU is still only a four hour drive away.

An example of "more time invested" could be giving Wheatley some NJ recruiting areas. Maybe he is already doing this but I haven't heard anything about that on the ground. It would be very strategic though. Tyrone played for the Giants when the current talent pool was growing up. Many of these kids were probably cheering Tyrone when they were young so having him recruit them would be a big deal. just an idea.

While I agree SU is playing catch up in NJ, at some point we just need to attack that head on and set us up long term in the state rather than considering it an afterthought. NJ is the most valuable football state in the region with the exception of PA. Much more valuable than NYC/LI/NY State. Anyone who saw the LI vs. NYC game last week knows what I'm talking about. The talent in that game was awful.


Ps...at the end of the day I'm not saying "only recruit nj kids". I just wish the state was made more of a priority, that's all.