Not a good sign that JB cuts the bench in game two

[orangefan13]

Watch coach's press conference for all your answers.

Do you remember which one ? would love to watch again.

 

[orangefan13]

the better your starting 5-6 play the more bench minutes you can play guys who make mistakes. ours play just good enough to stay in every game but never put teams away so they can sit down.

I was Looking back to the 08-09 season early on with this team.

With flynn devendorf and rautins at the three defensive deficiencies all around. Yet that team outscored opponents and did just fine.

By comparison we have brown leafs but that team had some wilting.

I actually think this team is going to get better and better defensively. I think Chinoso is going to work hard and maybe earn 5 solid instead of 2 poor mintues a game. And Dajuan is on the rise. Hes going to be very solid defensively around mid-late season. Hes still recovering to game speed we saw a glimpse of that against A+M some of us will be suprised more then prepared for when he gets there. Lydon and Malachi are getting experience where they won't be beat on a few slides in the zone later in the season that they are now.

 

[Dave85]

I was Looking back to the 08-09 season early on with this team.

With flynn devendorf and rautins at the three defensive deficiencies all around. Yet that team outscored opponents and did just fine.

By comparison we have brown leafs but that team had some wilting.

I actually think this team is going to get better and better defensively. I think Chinoso is going to work hard and maybe earn 5 solid instead of 2 poor mintues a game. And Dajuan is on the rise. Hes going to be very solid defensively around mid-late season. Lydon and Malachi are getting experience where they won't be beat on a few slides in the zone later in the season that they are now.

All we need is Howard and Joseph to play good defense and not shoot and we will be great. Obokoh will help Lydon and Coleman just enough to get by.

 

[orangefan13]

All we need is Howard and Joseph to play good defense and not shoot and we will be great. Obokoh will help Lydon and Coleman just enough to get by.

I think Joseph is becoming a good shooter he just needs to get his form consistant. Even JB believes in him he said after the Charlotte/Uconn game pressconference "we have 5 three point shooters". He just lost his form down there in the charlotte game so he will be watched tigher to he gets it down for a few games in a row.
I do think we will take the air out of ball more with our subs in though, as opposed to speeding it up. Maybe speeding up ball movement occasionally to pound it inside with Kaleb or Howard though if its working.

 

[Dave85]

I think Joseph is becoming a good shooter he just needs to get his form consistant. Even JB believes in him he said so after the Charlotte/Uconn game pressconference. He just lost his form down there so he will be watched tigher to he gets it down for a few games in a row.

It seems to me his game is full of mental errors at this point. All he has to do is possess the ball well, make good passes, but most of all play good defense so other players can rest. I have not seen him make a shot in a long time. Again, what we need for the team is warm bodies that can play good defense. I appreciate all his time shooting 3s after practice and everything. But maybe he should be watching previous games of Triche, Rautins, and Scroop playing the top of the 2-3 defense. I mean come on already. I'm frustrated and losing my patience with Joseph. For me, Joseph is the new Cooney. I'm just not sure where Joseph's head is at right now. Maybe being the Bahamas was just too much for him. We need snow in Syracuse to clear their heads of the Bahamas!

 

[pearl31]

I just looked it up. You are absolutely correct about their short bench. They ranked 310 out of 351 last year, so bottom 12% in terms of bench minutes. But they really had more like 7 or 8 throughout the grinding season. But point taken about the short bench on the "championship run"

and I agree with you that SU needs at least one more guy as part of the rotation for the grinding months of Jan/Feb and most of March

 

[orangefan13]

Agree Joseph is just not picking up on the memorizing aspects. I think he runs the game at such a speed and can tend to force things. You never catch his eye gleam and making a play for a quick assist, that smart passers can make.

examples.
The game at Uconn he came in and tried to force a pass through a double team of a couple of fast dribbles all the way across the court and the ball got tipped out of bounce.

What we saw was him play pg agaisnt bonnaventure and elon then at charlotte his form was all off because he didn't practice it. So he was told not to shoot against uconn and A+M. Make no mistake about it he hasn't really had much chance to shoot.
The Charlotte game he was 0-4 or 0-5 on his jumpers because 3-4 aspects of his jumpshot were off, or we would have shot a rediculous 60 some % from three that day.

His shot was so tight best on the team the first few games but is meant for a slow release at the top of high spot up elevation this year not a quick one if you rewatch the first 2 exhibitions and Lehigh.

 

[stuckinbig11]

Play to win. Every game. Period.

 

[690West]

Play to win. Every game. Period.

Agree. Did someone suggest otherwise?

 

[jncuse]

I think this question needs to be asked. What will Mike Hopkins do?

The start of conference season is always a trigger for JB to give even more minutes to his starters (top 6). But now Hopkins will be around.

While Hopkins will have complete autonomy for coaching 9 games.
- Does he have the same philosophy as JB in terms of rotation?
- Even if JB tells Hopkins to follow his own instincts, will he try to do things just like JB because it is not really his team.

 

[two3zone]

I think this question needs to be asked. What will Mike Hopkins do?

The start of conference season is always a trigger for JB to give even more minutes to his starters (top 6). But now Hopkins will be around.

While Hopkins will have complete autonomy for coaching 9 games.
- Does he have the same philosophy as JB in terms of rotation?
- Even if JB tells Hopkins to follow his own instincts, will he try to do things just like JB because it is not really his team.

Biggest question, does JB have a heart attack during the suspension while he watches his team?

 

[Ghost]

Play to win. Every game. Period.

I don't know that I'm particularly concerned with this squad and all the movable parts, but everyone is more or less doing that at the end of the day.

Look at our FF run with Triche/MCW - we had to go to our bench late because of foul trouble and Cooney seemed none-to-ready to perform. Not saying if he played a few more minutes here or there it would have made a difference, but it might of. You never know I guess. Maybe if you give him those minutes we lose an extra game and get a crap seed...or a better seed. That stuff is too unknown.

NBA coaches go with rotations all the time that I'm sure they think are simply brilliant. But the best of the best get it wrong too...The Knicks wouldn't play Chandler/Melo/Stoudemaire together for 3/4 of a year, then when they finally broke down and gave them a lot of run together, they weren't this walking disaster that everyone assured us they would be. They weren't the greatest show on Earth, but they were better with them 3 on the court than the other disastrous rotations they tried that season.

80% of the "Cooney should never sit" contingent assured us all endlessly that if Cooney went to the bench last year the team would quite literally self-destruct, and that no baskets would ever possibly be seen in Orange'ville because all of the defenders on the other team would then be free to shut us down...or something like that. Then against Pitt, he sat, we went on a 10-2 run. At the dome during the Bouie misspelling fiasco game (not sure of the opponent - maybe Pitt again), he was hurt, and players stepped up and scored a whole bunch of points. It happens.

There is something to be said for just putting the players out there and letting them work through mistakes to progress and help the team. Joseph may very well be looking over his shoulder too much. It's not unthinkable. He didn't have that concern in the pre-season, but as games kick-in that count, the hook is so much quicker and with that he may simply be playing more tentative. He was firing shots off in the exhibitions like mad (and hitting them) - not so much now. Would TC be the player he is if he wasn't allowed to play through every mistake? Maybe. Who knows.

I'm rambling. lol All that being said, the rotations seemed fine to me in Atlantis. Players seemed pretty fresh, and the moves were working. If it ain't broke - don't fix it. I would have given Howard some more run against Charlotte, but otherwise, seemed okay to me.

 

[Dave85]

Biggest question, does JB have a heart attack during the suspension while he watches his team?

I've had a heart attack. It has a completely different meaning for me at this point. It's just a weird saying for me. I used to use it all the time. Now I don't even like the words.

 

[tbonezone]

we'll easily put 3 guys in the top ten acc minutes played column. 2 of those in the top 5.

 

[upperdeck]

we really just need howard/joseph to find a way to get on the court for 10 min and get 30 min a game out of the other 4. that works for every game we dont get into foul trouble or have an injury. if you could get 20 min from the 2 back guards even better but that doesnt seem to be happening nor does getting 5 from the back up center.. coleman being able to play 30 without fouls would really be huge he seems to be trending in the right direction..

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I think this question needs to be asked. What will Mike Hopkins do?

The start of conference season is always a trigger for JB to give even more minutes to his starters (top 6). But now Hopkins will be around.

While Hopkins will have complete autonomy for coaching 9 games.
- Does he have the same philosophy as JB in terms of rotation?
- Even if JB tells Hopkins to follow his own instincts, will he try to do things just like JB because it is not really his team.

I don't think there is much question on what Mike H will do. Try to win the games. I don't think anyone is expecting Mike H to develop the players for later in the year. Pretty hard to believe JB would leave instructions for MH to make sure Chino and FH/KJ2 get their 10 mpg's.

The safest thing for MH to do is keep the same philosophy. But if MH goes only 5-4 during the stretch, I think people will be a little worried about the whole coach in waiting thing.

 

[jncuse]

I don't think there is much question on what Mike H will do. Try to win the games. I don't think anyone is expecting Mike H to develop the players for later in the year. Pretty hard to believe JB would leave instructions for MH to make sure Chino and FH/KJ2 get their 10 mpg's.

The safest thing for MH to do is keep the same philosophy. But if MH goes only 5-4 during the stretch, I think people will be a little worried about the whole coach in waiting thing.

Of course he will try to win the games. But stretching out the rotation is not just a development philosophy, it is also a strategic one.

Many coaches feel you have better chance to win the games if you play your top players 34 minutes instead of 38 or 40, and are willing to spot lesser players a few more minutes to help you win that game.

 

[jsshap]

I saw five play the majority of the second half - Lydon, Richardson, Cooney, Gbinje, Roberson. In the first half I saw a little bit of Howard and Joseph. Coleman played a few minutes each half. I saw zero Chinoso.

With the pace and space style we are playing this year if this pattern persists we're not going to have any legs by the end of the year. The problem with Joseph and Howard is that they give us nothing on offense. For all everyone says Joseph improved, he dribbles sideways way too much for my liking and he still doesn't seem to know what to do with the ball. Howard looks like your standard lost freshman who really doesn't do much at the moment other than take up minutes.

Anyways not sure what the answer is here but this short of a bench against a no name opponent in game two does no bode well for the rest of the year.

I think the notion that 20 year old kids will lose their legs if they play 35-38 minutes per game rather than 30-33 is really overstated. I absolutely agree that a deep bench is preferable to a short bench for several reasons including (1) keeps guys fresher with more wind during the game (2) team is better prepared to withstand injury (or suspension) and (3) team is more versatile and more equipped to play different styles, etc. based on opponent and game flow. But I just don't buy the notion that an extra 5 minutes of game time per game is going to make an appreciable difference in these guys' legs by the end of the year.

 

[cuseinseattle]

I saw five play the majority of the second half - Lydon, Richardson, Cooney, Gbinje, Roberson. In the first half I saw a little bit of Howard and Joseph. Coleman played a few minutes each half. I saw zero Chinoso.

With the pace and space style we are playing this year if this pattern persists we're not going to have any legs by the end of the year. The problem with Joseph and Howard is that they give us nothing on offense. For all everyone says Joseph improved, he dribbles sideways way too much for my liking and he still doesn't seem to know what to do with the ball. Howard looks like your standard lost freshman who really doesn't do much at the moment other than take up minutes.

Anyways not sure what the answer is here but this short of a bench against a no name opponent in game two does no bode well for the rest of the year.

What is wrong with playing mostly 6 people? There are plenty of time stoppages during the game. It's not like Cooney is being asked to be are only perimeter shooter and we have multiple people (Lydon, Silent G, Richardson) that can play more than one spot in the zone. Outside of foul trouble what is the concern.

 

[cuseinseattle]

I think the notion that 20 year old kids will lose their legs if they play 35-38 minutes per game rather than 30-33 is really overstated. I absolutely agree that a deep bench is preferable to a short bench for several reasons including (1) keeps guys fresher with more wind during the game (2) team is better prepared to withstand injury (or suspension) and (3) team is more versatile and more equipped to play different styles, etc. based on opponent and game flow. But I just don't buy the notion that an extra 5 minutes of game time per game is going to make an appreciable difference in these guys' legs by the end of the year.

My biggest problem with playing more people is it puts kids that aren't as good in the game. I don't want Frank Howard in the game instead of Cooney or Silent G. We don't press the entire game and run waves of people in.

 

[jncuse]

What is wrong with playing mostly 6 people? There are plenty of time stoppages during the game. It's not like Cooney is being asked to be are only perimeter shooter and we have multiple people (Lydon, Silent G, Richardson) that can play more than one spot in the zone. Outside of foul trouble what is the concern.

I am OK with playing only 6 if they stay healthy, and I'm not concerned that extra minutes leads to that much injury risk.

I am more concerned when we run into a random injury, as I know why we are only playing 6!

 

[bballbeadle]

I think this question needs to be asked. What will Mike Hopkins do?

The start of conference season is always a trigger for JB to give even more minutes to his starters (top 6). But now Hopkins will be around.

While Hopkins will have complete autonomy for coaching 9 games.
- Does he have the same philosophy as JB in terms of rotation?
- Even if JB tells Hopkins to follow his own instincts, will he try to do things just like JB because it is not really his team.

This is such an intriguing question. If he has developed some ideas over the years that are different than Boeheim's, ideas that he might implement when he is HC, would he use them during the 9 game period? I would have to say no. His safest strategy would be to coach as if Boeheim is coaching. Obviously, he wouldn't play any defense but M2M because that would be an "in your face" to his mentor. I would imagine he will be very conservative and be as smart as he can be. No pressure!

Another intriguing question: when we are at Duke and the refs lay a b.s. foul on us in the last minute, which item of clothing might he choose to doff?

 

[Dave85]

Another intriguing question: when we are at Duke and the refs lay a b.s. foul on us in the last minute, which item of clothing might he choose to doff?

At some point he's going to have to make a commitment to the cause like the girl from Indiana did: