Not one of these UK/Wisc. refs should be allowed back

[upperdeck]

did anyone ever get a real answer after the game as to what they saw that led them to not call anything?

 

[suttree]

How come no one is talking about the missed flagrant in the first half? Towns (I think) hit Kaminski right in the jaw with an elbow that was harder than that slap.

I only got one quick look at that replay, and I could have sworn that it was the back of Towns's head hitting Kaminsky in the face. But I haven't looked again. We might be talking about different plays, though.

 

[dasher]

Refs suck but after getting a chance to review that play, to not call a foul is unacceptable. Did they blow the shot clock, yes. But they didn't get a second look at that.

 

[ORANGE OATH]

The best description of the slap being reviewed is, 3 blind mice. This crew was awful at best, both ways. The shot clock issue is further proof of that.

 

[SWC75]

The non-violation on the shot clock was karma for the non-call on the flagrant. Wisconsin got the two points back they deserved earlier.

You just know that the reason they didn't call the flagrant was because they didn't want to make such a controversial call in a game of that magnitude. Yet! Their inability to officiate consistently marred that game more than that one (correct) call would have.

That's a big point. When refs don't make calls because "we don't want to decide the game"\, they are deciding the game.

Potentially, anyway. I'm glad the final margin was what it was.

 

[stuckinbig11]

I get irritated by the difference in how calls are made on the perimeter vs. under the hoop. If a defender knicks the wrist of a 3-pt shooter, it is a foul; if the defender body slams or hacks a big guy making a layup, they let it go. Case in point last night: Kaminsky went to the hoop and had his shot blocked; meanwhile the defender's other arm raked across both Kaminsky's forearms--no call.

 

[pfister1]

Except the refs have been awful in so many games this year. The NCAA needs to overhaul the system and demand retraining. I'm not holding my breath though.

The refereeing has been awful this year and the quality of play has been awful this year. Maybe we can solve both problems with a 30 second clock.

 

[tbonezone]

i have to say i liked the way CBS set up the team homer streams. (think back to our own coach mac talking about "our boys" )
sensing kentucky doom second half i was drawn to watching the wildcat feed with rex chapman and ? baker. (sorry didn't catch the pro wiscy feed)
even the kentucky crew was at a loss during the flagrant miss and several other calls down the stretch. and when the hindenbergh finally exploded ...priceless.

 

[Ringostar57]

Championship game will be refereed by the Marx brothers.

Agreed that there were bad calls down the stretch going both ways. But only one call left the refs with a chance to review the replay. And they still got that egregiously wrong after watcing it several times. It was a vintage Lee Van Cleef move.

Sweet justice prevailed in the end. I'll be rooting for the Badgers Monday night.

The GOOD: Wisconsin winning, the BAD: Kentucky getting away with that face slap. the UGLY Caulley Swine and the Harrison twins at the end of the game...

 

[OttoMets]

I don't disagree. There's a good chance those guys had never worked together before, and as I mentioned before, lots of time refs feel the pressure , too. Some handle it well, others don't. At the end of it all, the team that played better still won the game. So, what the heck. I mean, yes we want them to be perfect even though we know they can't be, but at the end of it all, the right team won. I think we gotta live with that. :noidea:

Man, I like your insight, but it's not about pressure or unfamiliarity. One player hits another player in the face; the officials watch the replay of this; they willfully choose not to make the correct call.

This game is broken.

 

[OttoMets]

The non-violation on the shot clock was karma for the non-call on the flagrant. Wisconsin got the two points back they deserved earlier.

You just know that the reason they didn't call the flagrant was because they didn't want to make such a controversial call in a game of that magnitude. Yet! Their inability to officiate consistently marred that game more than that one (correct) call would have.

Exactly.

 

[OttoMets]

i have to say i liked the way CBS set up the team homer streams. (think back to our own coach mac talking about "our boys" )
sensing kentucky doom second half i was drawn to watching the wildcat feed with rex chapman and ? baker. (sorry didn't catch the pro wiscy feed)
even the kentucky crew was at a loss during the flagrant miss and several other calls down the stretch. and when the hindenbergh finally exploded ...priceless.

Yeah, I was confused by the team feed, didn't understand a) why Rex Chapman was calling a Final Four game and b) why he was being so honest about the officiating (since Jim Nantz has never heard of a call or non-call he won't apologize for).

"Brutal" and "you can't miss this many calls" were thrown around quite a bit.

 

[Cowtown]

Man, I like your insight, but it's not about pressure or unfamiliarity. One player hits another player in the face; the officials watch the replay of this; they willfully choose not to make the correct call.

This game is broken.

My complaint about that play is not so much whether it was a foul, or whether it was -1 or -2, but that it was handled differently from the way similar plays were handled all year. I remember, I think, seeing Cooney get tagged with an -1 for less, and it was after the refs went to the monitor to look at it. Maybe that was last year, I don't know, but the point remains the same. And that's precisely the kind of thing that makes people say "The fix is in!"

I was dismayed by the offensive foul called on Gasser that cancelled a Koenig three.. The defender was clearly falling away before any contact. The ref that called that one struggled down the stretch. Also the blocking foul call on Kaminsky with about 4:00 to go was pretty weak.

"Kicked calls" didn't just suddenly start happening, as we all know (Brandon Triche says "Hi!" ). And they happen in every sport. My point is that they do happen, and I've always said if you don't want to get beaten by a bad call, play better sooner. In Wisconsin's case, they made 3 consecutive stops shortly after Koenig's basket was taken away, and that was where the game turned. If I was Bo Ryan, I'd be so proud of that minute and a half.

 

[Garbs]

I had no problem with the "slap". Classic drill every team goes through to get open. Sometimes its called, sometimes its not. Hitting him in the face was completely unintentional.

 

[Garbs]

My complaint about that play is not so much whether it was a foul, or whether it was -1 or -2, but that it was handled differently from the way similar plays were handled all year. I remember, I think, seeing Cooney get tagged with an -1 for less, and it was after the refs went to the monitor to look at it. Maybe that was last year, I don't know, but the point remains the same. And that's precisely the kind of thing that makes people say "The fix is in!"

I was dismayed by the offensive foul called on Gasser that cancelled a Koenig three.. The defender was clearly falling away before any contact. The ref that called that one struggled down the stretch. Also the blocking foul call on Kaminsky with about 4:00 to go was pretty weak.

"Kicked calls" didn't just suddenly start happening, as we all know (Brandon Triche says "Hi!" ). And they happen in every sport. My point is that they do happen, and I've always said if you don't want to get beaten by a bad call, play better sooner. In Wisconsin's case, they made 3 consecutive stops shortly after Koenig's basket was taken away, and that was where the game turned. If I was Bo Ryan, I'd be so proud of that minute and a half.

I think that one is cancelled by the Lyles one. Dekker flopped on that one and Harrison maybe flopped on the other but he plowed into him even though he got the pass away clean. I would say the Gasser one was more of a charge. Lyles definitely shouldered him, but that is a normal play, and Dekker got away with the flop.

 

[Col. Bleep]

Wasn't at the stadium, so it'd be hard to get picked out of the crowd from my couch.

You'd be fine.
Couldn't have done much worse from your couch.
Maybe that's the next gimmick, a fan contest to be a replay ref from home: "You Be the Replay."

At least 4 bad calls down the stretch...two each way:
The flagrant slap and the blocking foul on Kaminsky that should have been a charge.
The shot clock violation that wasn't called and a foul without any contact when Nigel Hayes went to the hoop.

 

[Cowtown]

I think that one is cancelled by the Lyles one. Dekker flopped on that one and Harrison maybe flopped on the other but he plowed into him even though he got the pass away clean. I would say the Gasser one was more of a charge. Lyles definitely shouldered him, but that is a normal play, and Dekker got away with the flop.

We disagree on the Dekker "flop." He got plowed. That's an offensive foul 100% of the time.

 

[Cowtown]

That's a big point. When refs don't make calls because "we don't want to decide the game"\, they are deciding the game.

It's astounding to me that people don't understand that. If you don't blow the whistle and "let the players decide," the team that breaks the rules first, worst and/or most wins. Every time.

 

[shandeezy7]

I had no problem with the "slap". Classic drill every team goes through to get open. Sometimes its called, sometimes its not. Hitting him in the face was completely unintentional.

One of the main points of the rule change several years ago was that it doesn't matter whether or not it was intentional, it's still a flagrant. Hence the -1 and -2 designations.

 

[texascpa]

It's astounding to me that people don't understand that. If you don't blow the whistle and "let the players decide," the team that breaks the rules first, worst and/or most wins. Every time.

And then if you blow the whistle too often, the cries of "Let the players play!" starts up. Refs can't win.

the only calls I have an issue with are the flagrant non-call and the shot clock call.

 

[Ryand877]

Can't review the shot clock in the final four because it's outside of two minutes and we want to speed up the game...while having 1 thousand commercials

By rule, it was not review-able, but what a huge call (non-call). In addition to the ability to review things over the last two minutes, teams should get one challenge a game, or half, whatever, similar to football. I did not want Kentucky to win, at all, but that shot was clearly late and should not have counted.

 

[Alsacs]

The problem is these refs aren't employees of the NCAA or the conferences that hire them to do games. They are independent contractors if the NCAA/schools wanted to fix this problem they would hire these officials as full-time employees and hold them accountable. It would get rid of these officials who suck and can't make the correct calls. It is sad when NBA refs just run circles around NCAA refs at actually making the correct calls and not ruining the game as much. It has nothing to do with the rulebooks either NBA refs don't ruin the game like NCAA refs do.

 

[sufandu]

I get irritated by the difference in how calls are made on the perimeter vs. under the hoop. If a defender knicks the wrist of a 3-pt shooter, it is a foul; if the defender body slams or hacks a big guy making a layup, they let it go. Case in point last night: Kaminsky went to the hoop and had his shot blocked; meanwhile the defender's other arm raked across both Kaminsky's forearms--no call.

Against Notre Dame, there was a "block" that should've been a foul too. I think it was Lyles that slapped the Notre Dame guy on the forearm and didn't get any ball at all. It was just a play on and all the commentators did was gush about how fast the KU bigs recover to defend the basket. It's a lot easier to recover when you can smack a guy's arm and have it go in the books as a block.

 

[ClamOtto]

Surprised nobody's mentioned (unless I missed it) that John Higgins officiated this game and our infamous Elite 8 loss to Ohio State in 2012. Can't everyone named Higgins be banned from officiating?

 

[upperdeck]

By rule, it was not review-able, but what a huge call (non-call). In addition to the ability to review things over the last two minutes, teams should get one challenge a game, or half, whatever, similar to football. I did not want Kentucky to win, at all, but that shot was clearly late and should not have counted.

if the team has TO's why not let them review almost anything they want. just dont give them the TO back, or convert it to a 30 sec TO that half.