Notre Dame / ACC

[orangecuse]

It is nice to see so many people concerned with ND's best interests and well being...

My theory is that an ACC champ will almost always have to be undefeated like FSU and Clemson to get into the playoffs (see last two years).

If FSU or Clemson had one loss in the last two seasons, they would have been out of the playoffs, conference membership or championship game notwithstanding.

So...ACC membership would not really help ND that much after all, especially when it has to give up the things it likes about independence.

Full membership would help the other ACC schools more than it would help ND. I don't see any reason for ND to join for football.

Believe what you want to believe, but the argument about giving up its independence is pure cover. Interesting that their alleged independence argument institutionally doesn't matter for basketball, or any of their other sports. It's all about the coin, and their greed, nothing more...great spin from the entity that believes it's holier than thou. As long as they can have their cake and eat it too the same independence spin will be spewed, and, as you mentioned, with no apparent additional benefit specifically to them, they will selfishly remain independent. Don't kid yourself, what ND likes most about its independence is keeping all the money to themselves...period!

 

[TheCusian]

Believe what you want to believe, but the argument about giving up its independence is pure cover. Interesting that their alleged independence argument institutionally doesn't matter for basketball, or any of their other sports. It's all about the coin, and their greed, nothing more...great spin from the entity that believes it's holier than thou. As long as they can have their cake and eat it too the same independence spin will be spewed, and, as you mentioned, with no apparent additional benefit to them, they will selfishly remain independent. Don't kid yourself, what ND likes most about its independence is keeping all the money to themselves...period!

Don't forget "recruiting nationally" ... That's a good one too

 

[orangecuse]

Don't forget "recruiting nationally" ... That's a good one too

Yeah because schools in conferences are so hindered by such.

 

[bpo57]

and schools shouldnt benefit from not playing a champ game.

simple as that.

If they're so hung up on having four P5 conference champs then just take the winners of the ACC, SEC , B1G and P12 and tell everybody else to go home. Regardless of whether they're the four best teams.

Btw I don't believe they're that hung up on it. It's just one of several criteria. The 12 people in the room are gonna pick the four best teams.

 

[bpo57]

Sure. I'll give you that. You can be scheduled out of some match ups and miss one of the best teams.

But. Wait.

That 12th game gives you an almost guaranteed top 25 match up to win the conference. ND will never have that as an independent.

No but in any given year they could have played many more top 25 teams than a conference champ.

 

[bpo57]

Yeah change changes things.

The year before a 1 loss Big 12 team got knocked out by a conference champion after the games were played and they sat idle.

Works both ways my friend. At least four times in the last two decades a Big 12 team was eliminated from the BCS championship game because they lost the B12 championship game (back when they held one).

 

[bpo57]

Don't forget "recruiting nationally" ... That's a good one too

Go take a look at their roster then get back to me. If you can find any top 25 team (save Navy) that has a roster with players more dispersed across the nation then I'll happily send you $100. Stop now you're being foolish.

 

[bpo57]

Believe what you want to believe, but the argument about giving up its independence is pure cover. Interesting that their alleged independence argument institutionally doesn't matter for basketball, or any of their other sports. It's all about the coin, and their greed, nothing more...great spin from the entity that believes it's holier than thou. As long as they can have their cake and eat it too the same independence spin will be spewed, and, as you mentioned, with no apparent additional benefit specifically to them, they will selfishly remain independent. Don't kid yourself, what ND likes most about its independence is keeping all the money to themselves...period!

LOL and SU wouldn't do the same if they could, right?

 

[KaiserUEO]

If they're so hung up on having four P5 conference champs then just take the winners of the ACC, SEC , B1G and P12 and tell everybody else to go home. Regardless of whether they're the four best teams.

Btw I don't believe they're that hung up on it. It's just one of several criteria. The 12 people in the room are gonna pick the four best teams.

theyve done it 1x.

lets see what happens next year, and the year after etc.

again, i firmly believe a 1 loss stanford was going to get in over okie...even if they were 6th going into champ saturday. 5th?? i wouldve been 'guaranteeing' it.

 

[TerryD]

and schools shouldnt benefit from not playing a champ game.

simple as that.

Championship games are only gimmicks to add cash and give something else for ESPN to televise.

They are not something sacrosanct

Believe what you want to believe, but the argument about giving up its independence is pure cover. Interesting that their alleged independence argument institutionally doesn't matter for basketball, or any of their other sports. It's all about the coin, and their greed, nothing more...great spin from the entity that believes it's holier than thou. As long as they can have their cake and eat it too the same independence spin will be spewed, and, as you mentioned, with no apparent additional benefit specifically to them, they will selfishly remain independent. Don't kid yourself, what ND likes most about its independence is keeping all the money to themselves...period!

ND could make a lot more cash if it joined the Big Ten rather than stay independent.

That shoots down your entire theory.

 

[TheCusian]

If they're so hung up on having four P5 conference champs then just take the winners of the ACC, SEC , B1G and P12 and tell everybody else to go home. Regardless of whether they're the four best teams. Btw I don't believe they're that hung up on it. It's just one of several criteria. The 12 people in the room are gonna pick the four best teams.

Finally you get it. That's kind of what they did. There's some wiggle room for sure. But if you're in one of those conferences, have 1 loss or less, played a decent schedule, and win your conference title - you're in.

Those odds > ND/BYU/Big12 odds

 

[TheCusian]

No but in any given year they could have played many more top 25 teams than a conference champ.

That comes down to luck. You're hoping that teams you schedule 3-5 years out will be top 25. We're banking on the conference having enough top 25 teams + an extra game will trump that.

I like those odds.

 

[TheCusian]

Championship games are only gimmicks to add cash and give something else for ESPN to televise. They are not something sacrosanct ND could make a lot more cash if it joined the Big Ten rather than stay independent. That shoots down your entire theory.

That's the old way of thinking about championships. The committee changed that by taking tOSU last year.

 

[SUfaninAZ]

Yes, they do under their agreement with the ACC because it's not coming from any ACC bowl slot allocation. They get money if they are invited to play the ACC rep in the Orange Bowl, but, IIRC, it's less than if someone else gets that OB bid.

So they get 21from NBC... 18 from Fiesta... and 5 from ACC. Why on earth would they wanna join a conference

 

[Hoo's That]

So they get 21from NBC... 18 from Fiesta... and 5 from ACC. Why on earth would they wanna join a conference

I, for one, am not holding my breath until they decide to join a conference. If it happens, it happens. if it doesn't, it doesn't. Maybe because I watched Notre Dame Football Highlights with Lindsay Nelson on Sunday mornings so much I don't have the animus so many folks seem to have about ND. "Following an exchange of punts..."

If they do have to join a conference for whatever reason, a lot of their fans will be ticked off. I'd much, much rather have them ticked off at the circumstances that forced them to join the ACC (if it's before 2025) than at the ACC for forcing them to join.

 

[Toga]

I, for one, am not holding my breath until they decide to join a conference. If it happens, it happens. if it doesn't, it doesn't. Maybe because I watched Notre Dame Football Highlights with Lindsay Nelson on Sunday mornings so much I don't have the animus so many folks seem to have about ND. "Following an exchange of punts..."

If they do have to join a conference for whatever reason, a lot of their fans will be ticked off. I'd much, much rather have them ticked off at the circumstances that forced them to join the ACC (if it's before 2025) than at the ACC for forcing them to join.

SU fans have experienced a number of incidents over the years which has created a special animus.

 

[orangecuse]

LOL and SU wouldn't do the same if they could, right?

That's not the argument. It's the false facade they portray in pledging their holy allegiance to independence. Again, if it was so dear to "Our Lady's" heart, institutionally, as a whole, they'd be independent, but they're not. Here's an institution who's namesake is based on an entity that cherishes money as much as its revered sanctity.

 

[bpo57]

That comes down to luck. You're hoping that teams you schedule 3-5 years out will be top 25. We're banking on the conference having enough top 25 teams + an extra game will trump that.

I like those odds.

You're banking on the ACC having enough top 25 teams each year? That's a shaky proposition.

 

[bpo57]

That's not the argument. It's the false facade they portray in pledging their holy allegiance to independence. Again, if it was so dear to "Our Lady's" heart, institutionally, as a whole, they'd be independent, but they're not. Here's an institution who's namesake is based on an entity that cherishes money as much as its revered sanctity.

As Terry D outlined above- ND could join the B1G and make even more $$$.

 

[TheCusian]

You're banking on the ACC having enough top 25 teams each year? That's a shaky proposition.

We've had 3 (4 if you're lucky enough to play ND) each of the last three years.

Most contenders in the ACC play an SEC or B1G OOC (Clemson v S.Carolina, FSU v Florida, Syracuse v LSU).

Throw in the championship game, again a 12th game vs a quality opponent (usually top 25) for the conference title?

Not that shaky.

 

[TheCusian]

As Terry D outlined above- ND could join the B1G and make even more $$$.

And as you've pointed out they won't. And they can't until the pseudo ACC deal runs out.

 

[bpo57]

And as you've pointed out they won't. And they can't until the pseudo ACC deal runs out.

Agreed. Was just countering the viewpoint that ND's independence is only about $$$.

FWIW I had dinner with a friend of mine last night in Philly. His brother also came along and happens to be a fairly well known reporter that covers college football for ESPN and appears on College GameDay, the Heisman show, etc. Nice guy (zero ego) who has been around the game a lot and knows his stuff.

Here are his views on ND's situation: 1) thinks it is very unlikely that ND will ever join a conference and has little motivation to do so; 2) acknowledges that in certain years it can work against ND not being in a conference but generally thinks that ND's draw will usually (depending who they are up against) mitigate any such disadvantage. Doesn't think that money, ratings etc. are the be all end all but says they are definitely a factor that can often work in ND's favor.

 

[bpo57]

We've had 3 (4 if you're lucky enough to play ND) each of the last three years.

Most contenders in the ACC play an SEC or B1G OOC (Clemson v S.Carolina, FSU v Florida, Syracuse v LSU).

Throw in the championship game, again a 12th game vs a quality opponent (usually top 25) for the conference title?

Not that shaky.

Three means that if you're a contender then you play two ranked teams from your conference. Most P5 contenders will play more than two ranked teams from their conference in a season.

 

[TheCusian]

Three means that if you're a contender then you play two ranked teams from your conference. Most P5 contenders will play more than two ranked teams from their conference in a season.

Exactly. Easiest route to the playoffs is in the ACC.

 

[bpo57]

Exactly. Easiest route to the playoffs is in the ACC.

Wouldn't have been for UNC.