Notre Dame / ACC

[longtimefan]

Easy there, Tiger.

Hilarious how you include ND when it suits your purposes.

Go back over the last five final polls (including 2015). The ACC is CLEARLY behind the other other four power conferences. #1 or #2? You're out of your mind.

Always follow the coaches.

It remains to be seen, of course, but it appears that the ACC did much better with its 4 hires than the B1G did with its 4 (including Minn and Ill). Now, they still have Meyer and Harbaugh, but neither of them might be in that league in 5 years, given their respective track records. No doubt the ACC is well behind at this moment, but the trend seems to be positive for the ACC.

 

[WickedOrange]

Who's to say that the ACC would feel that dumping ND would be preferred to the current arrangement? I highly doubt that it would.

It doesn't have to be 5/8 or full. Maybe the ACC says they require six games to keep current relationship going, next contract. Is ND going to walk away from the best conference for their sports programs after being in the conference for a decade, over one game?

They might... but that's going to piss a lot of ND people off.

If they don't, that's 1/2 the games tied to the ACC and a Navy add away, from being one game way from being a full member.

No objective person would consider that "Independence".

ACC needs to get a little stronger and get the divisions dropped.

Time could take care of the rest.

 

[WoadBlue]

It doesn't have to be 5/8 or full. Maybe the ACC says they require six games to keep current relationship going, next contract. Is ND going to walk away from the best conference for their sports programs after being in the conference for a decade, over one game?

They might... but that's going to piss a lot of ND people off.

If they don't, that's 1/2 the games tied to the ACC and a Navy add away, from being one game way from being a full member.

No objective person would consider that "Independence".

ACC needs to get a little stronger and get the divisions dropped.

Time could take care of the rest.

Not long after this deal was made, word emerged from around the ACC office that the 5 games would become 6 at some point. I have no doubt that at the least, it was made clear that the ACC wants and needs 6 games from ND, even if we start with 5, to ease ND boosters into acceptance of 6. If ND plays 6 ACC games per year, ESPN gets 3 ND games every year. And ESPN wants that.

In one sense, I prefer ND to stay a partial member. I think ND as a full member would see another renaissance, as it did when starting to play bowls. And that would make it harder for UNC to rebuild football back to conference championship status. And I think the 6 games by ND would make ESPN happy enough to kick start the ACC network, which ND's non-revenue sports and basketball need and want as much as UNC non-revenue sports.

So I think we will see ND agree to play 6.

 

[TerryD]

ND has already joined ACC football - 5/8ths worth.

When a conference schedules league games for you, you are a member of that league. The ACC schedules games for ND football every year.

The issue is whether ND will remain at 5/8ths forever or go full. Eventually, the latter will be done. It is just a matter of when.


You have hit on something that is essential to the equation that was not applicable in 1970 or even 1980: the status of of non-revenue sports with the administration. The ND administration sees NR sports the way UNC, Dook, and UVA do, the way Ivy League schools do: very important and worth being promoted a great deal. ND's administration is never going to make what would amount to a football-factory decision. ND's basketball and non-revenues will never be placed in a non-Major conference, even if the football boosters were unanimous in demanding just that so football could go back to being independent.

Is that why ND basketball plays in an arena built in 1968 and the administration refuses to build an indoor practice facility for the basketball team?

It doesn't have to be 5/8 or full. Maybe the ACC says they require six games to keep current relationship going, next contract. Is ND going to walk away from the best conference for their sports programs after being in the conference for a decade, over one game?

They might... but that's going to piss a lot of ND people off.

If they don't, that's 1/2 the games tied to the ACC and a Navy add away, from being one game way from being a full member.

No objective person would consider that "Independence".

ACC needs to get a little stronger and get the divisions dropped.

Time could take care of the rest.

The ACC already offered a sixth game, giving ND either BC or Pitt as an annual opponent.

ND turned the sixth game down a year or so ago.

 

[TheCusian]

The thing that really stands out to me is that ND should be scheduling a much tougher OOC to balance out not having that 12th game vs quality comp.

Is that on the table/being discussed? Or do FCS schools help with recruiting nationally?

 

[TerryD]

The thing that really stands out to me is that ND should be scheduling a much tougher OOC to balance out not having that 12th game vs quality comp.

Is that on the table/being discussed? Or do FCS schools help with recruiting nationally?

ND is one of only three schools in the country (Southern Cal, UCLA) that has never played an FCS school in football.

Where did you get your misinformation?

ND recently scheduled series with Texas, Oklahoma, Georgia and Ohio State, among others...



2016 Football Schedule
S03 @ Texas
S10 NEVADA
S17 MICHIGAN STATE
S24 DUKE
O01 @ Syracuse (Meadowlands)
O08 @ North Carolina State
O15 STANFORD
O29 MIAMI
N05 @ Navy (Jacksonville)
N12 ARMY (Alamodome)
N19 VIRGINIA TECH
N26 @ Southern Cal


2017 Football Schedule
not officialS09 GEORGIA
S16 @ Boston College
S30 MIAMI(OH)
O07 @ North Carolina
O28 NORTH CAROLINA STATE
N04 WAKE FOREST
N11 @ Miami(FL)
N25 @ Stanford
TEMPLE
NAVY
SOUTHERN CAL
@ Michigan State


2018 Football Schedule
not officialS08 BALL STATE
S22 SYRACUSE
O13 @ Virginia Tech
O20 PITTSBURGH
O27 @ Navy (San Diego)
N10 FLORIDA STATE
N17 @ Wake Forest
N24 @ Southern Cal
STANFORD
3 games TBD


2019 Football Schedule
not officialS07 @ Louisville
S14 NEW MEXICO
S21 @ Georgia
S28 VIRGINIA
O19 @ Georgia Tech
N02 VIRGINIA TECH
N09 @ Duke
N23 BOSTON COLLEGE
N30 @ Stanford
NAVY
SOUTHERN CAL
1 game TBD


2020 Football Schedule
not officialN28 @ Southern Cal
STANFORD
DUKE
CLEMSON
LOUISVILLE
@ Purdue
@ Navy
@ Wake Forest
@ Pittsburgh


2021 Football Schedule
not officialS06 @ Florida State
N27 @ Stanford
PURDUE
NAVY
SOUTHERN CAL
NORTH CAROLINA
GEORGIA TECH
@ Virginia Tech
@ Virginia


2022 Football Schedule
not officialN26 @ Southern Cal
STANFORD
BOSTON COLLEGE
CLEMSON
@ Navy
@ Ohio State
@ North Carolina
@ Syracuse


2023 Football Schedule
not officialN25 @ Stanford
NAVY
SOUTHERN CAL
OHIO STATE
WAKE FOREST
PITTSBURGH
@ North Carolina State
@ Duke
@ Louisville
@ Clemson


2024 Football Schedule
not officialA31 @ Texas A&M
MIAMI(FL)
FLORIDA STATE
VIRGINIA
STANFORD
@ Navy
@ Southern Cal
@ Georgia Tech


2025 Football Schedule
not officialS27 TEXAS A&M
NAVY
SOUTHERN CAL
NORTH CAROLINA STATE
SYRACUSE
@ Stanford
@ Miami(FL)
@ Boston College
@ Pittsburgh

 

[TheCusian]

ND is one of only three schools in the country (Southern Cal, UCLA) that has never played an FCS school in football. Where did you get your misinformation?

My fault. Thought UMASS was still FCS.

My point still stands - with less % chance at the playoffs, they should probably drop a UMASS/Temple (this year is an anomaly) in favor of another heavy weight to balance out that 12th game.

 

[TheCusian]

ND is one of only three schools in the country (Southern Cal, UCLA) that has never played an FCS school in football. Where did you get your misinformation? ND recently scheduled series with Texas, Oklahoma, Georgia and Ohio State, among others... 2016 Football Schedule S03 @ Texas S10 NEVADA S17 MICHIGAN STATE S24 DUKE O01 @ Syracuse (Meadowlands) O08 @ North Carolina State O15 STANFORD O29 MIAMI N05 @ Navy (Jacksonville) N12 ARMY (Alamodome) N19 VIRGINIA TECH N26 @ Southern Cal 2017 Football Schedule not officialS09 GEORGIA S16 @ Boston College S30 MIAMI(OH) O07 @ North Carolina O28 NORTH CAROLINA STATE N04 WAKE FOREST N11 @ Miami(FL) N25 @ Stanford TEMPLE NAVY SOUTHERN CAL @ Michigan State 2018 Football Schedule not officialS08 BALL STATE S22 SYRACUSE O13 @ Virginia Tech O20 PITTSBURGH O27 @ Navy (San Diego) N10 FLORIDA STATE N17 @ Wake Forest N24 @ Southern Cal STANFORD 3 games TBD 2019 Football Schedule not officialS07 @ Louisville S14 NEW MEXICO S21 @ Georgia S28 VIRGINIA O19 @ Georgia Tech N02 VIRGINIA TECH N09 @ Duke N23 BOSTON COLLEGE N30 @ Stanford NAVY SOUTHERN CAL 1 game TBD 2020 Football Schedule not officialN28 @ Southern Cal STANFORD DUKE CLEMSON LOUISVILLE @ Purdue @ Navy @ Wake Forest @ Pittsburgh 2021 Football Schedule not officialS06 @ Florida State N27 @ Stanford PURDUE NAVY SOUTHERN CAL NORTH CAROLINA GEORGIA TECH @ Virginia Tech @ Virginia 2022 Football Schedule not officialN26 @ Southern Cal STANFORD BOSTON COLLEGE CLEMSON @ Navy @ Ohio State @ North Carolina @ Syracuse 2023 Football Schedule not officialN25 @ Stanford NAVY SOUTHERN CAL OHIO STATE WAKE FOREST PITTSBURGH @ North Carolina State @ Duke @ Louisville @ Clemson 2024 Football Schedule not officialA31 @ Texas A&M MIAMI(FL) FLORIDA STATE VIRGINIA STANFORD @ Navy @ Southern Cal @ Georgia Tech 2025 Football Schedule not officialS27 TEXAS A&M NAVY SOUTHERN CAL NORTH CAROLINA STATE SYRACUSE @ Stanford @ Miami(FL) @ Boston College @ Pittsburgh

Yeah - that's what I mean. Plus if you go half in the ACC you're only getting half the benefit. You're being told to play weak Wake Forest, but it doesn't get you an ACC win and a step closer to the conf championship. It's just a meh win vs a P5. The BC game hurt you this year (though I didn't think it would matter anyways) again with no path towards a chance to play either UNC or Clemson in the title game.

 

[longtimefan]

Is that why ND basketball plays in an arena built in 1968 and the administration refuses to build an indoor practice facility for the basketball team?

Didn't you Irish folks just pour multiple millions into your hoops facility in the past couple of years (reducing seating capacity by a couple of thousand)?

 

[KaiserUEO]

Got a lotta wood to chop before that happens. Right now I'd say the ACC is in 5th place amongst the P5. They're not that far off that they couldn't jump up a few spots but right now there are only two schools that are rock solid perennial top 25 contenders- Clemson and FSU.

id score it this way...

after 2 years of a football playoff the P5 stacks up like this...

- 2 ACC teams
- 2 B1g teams
- 2 SEC teams
- 1 pac12 team
- 1 bevo team

the ACC is no lower than 3rd and if Clemson wins, that will make 2 titles in the last 3 years...including the dethroning of the SEC.

 

[TerryD]

Didn't you Irish folks just pour multiple millions into your hoops facility in the past couple of years (reducing seating capacity by a couple of thousand)?

But did not build a new arena nor an indoor practice facility. ND kept the old Joyce Center.

Meanwhile, ND is spending $450 million on ND Stadium additions.

 

[Alsacs]

CFB conferences right now
SEC...B1G/PAC-12.ACC.Big XII...American...Mountain West..CUSA..MAC..SunBelt..WAC

The Gap is shrinking.
Clemson/Florida State are on par with the top of an conference. The ACC just needs Miami/Virginia Tech/North Carolina/Georgia Tech/Louisville and the rest produce 2-3 top 25 teams every year.

Their is way more growth potential in the ACC.

 

[SU94]

I just read an article on another site that basically states that the CFB Playoff will redefine what it means to be an elite program.
So, let's say that its 2022, and you are Notre Dame and you have yet to crack the code to make the college football playoff. Substitute Texas or UCLA or Michigan for that matter. If you don't reach the Final Four, you are not elite. No matter that your history says. Seems about right.

ND has always been elite in their own minds. And they have a great historical "argument." (personally, I don't like ND, but I do admire their status in CFB).

But 8-10 years into this CFB playoff, no one else is going to be sharing that view if ND keeps "missing" with various 1-, 2- or 3-loss seasons. The criteria has changed and ND is going to have to adapt. Get in the Final Four or else you lose status as an Elite Program.

That is why I was really bummed ND lost that heartbreaker to Stanford 2 weeks ago. If the Irish had won the game, yet missed the CFB playoff (likely they would have still ranked behind OU) with just one loss (to #1 Clemson by 2 points), that would have essentially kick started the process of ND self reflection.

Would ND have joined the ACC in 2016? No way, of course not. But if they have 2-3 close misses in a decade and get excluded from the playoff each time, they'll suddenly realize that independence ain't all its cracked up to be. Especially when the college football pundits begin to laugh at, as opposed to lauding, their independence.

 

[longtimefan]

But did not build a new arena nor an indoor practice facility. ND kept the old Joyce Center.

Meanwhile, ND is spending $450 million on ND Stadium additions.

Just responding to your point that your basketball arena was built in 1968 (implying that your administration cares little for hoops).

$26M+ seems like interest in sports other than football. Not to mention the $50M for your new hockey arena.

Football is king out there in the wilds of South Bend, but they hardly neglect their other sports.

 

[bpo57]

Always follow the coaches.

It remains to be seen, of course, but it appears that the ACC did much better with its 4 hires than the B1G did with its 4 (including Minn and Ill). Now, they still have Meyer and Harbaugh, but neither of them might be in that league in 5 years, given their respective track records. No doubt the ACC is well behind at this moment, but the trend seems to be positive for the ACC.

I can buy that as coaching is critical and I can see the reasons for optimism with these new hires. But let's face it none of them have proven anything at the major D-1 level. Not a fan of the B1G but Fitzgerald is a very good coach as is Dantonio.

 

[bpo57]

The thing that really stands out to me is that ND should be scheduling a much tougher OOC to balance out not having that 12th game vs quality comp.

Is that on the table/being discussed? Or do FCS schools help with recruiting nationally?

In the coming years they play Georgia, Michigan State, Ohio State and discussions are underway with Michigan. Not to mention the usual games with USC, Stanford and Navy. I'd say that's tough enough.

 

[bpo57]

id score it this way...

after 2 years of a football playoff the P5 stacks up like this...

- 2 ACC teams
- 2 B1g teams
- 2 SEC teams
- 1 pac12 team
- 1 bevo team

the ACC is no lower than 3rd and if Clemson wins, that will make 2 titles in the last 3 years...including the dethroning of the SEC.

In the last five years the ACC has the least amount (cumulative) of teams in the Final Top 25 poll of any of the P5. In the last ten years they've had just one representative in the national championship game. Every other P5 conference has had at least three. The SEC has had nine. Very lopsided #s.

Basically you can count on FSU and Clemson to be top 15 or better every year. They're traditional football powers. After that you have somebody that makes a cameo appearance each year like a UNC, GaTech or Louisville but then is just as likely to fall by the roadside ala GTech this year. VaTech and Miami haven't been relevant for quite some time. Wake and BC have been dregs for a while. NCState seems to permanently be in the 25-40 range as they have their moments. UVA is not horrible but has been fairly mediocre. We obviously hope for good things for SU but it's not going to be easy.

For the ACC to be called #1 or #2 we need to see more consistency out of a few of the non- FSU/Clemson bunch.

 

[bpo57]

I just read an article on another site that basically states that the CFB Playoff will redefine what it means to be an elite program.
So, let's say that its 2022, and you are Notre Dame and you have yet to crack the code to make the college football playoff. Substitute Texas or UCLA or Michigan for that matter. If you don't reach the Final Four, you are not elite. No matter that your history says. Seems about right.

ND has always been elite in their own minds. And they have a great historical "argument." (personally, I don't like ND, but I do admire their status in CFB).

But 8-10 years into this CFB playoff, no one else is going to be sharing that view if ND keeps "missing" with various 1-, 2- or 3-loss seasons. The criteria has changed and ND is going to have to adapt. Get in the Final Four or else you lose status as an Elite Program.

That is why I was really bummed ND lost that heartbreaker to Stanford 2 weeks ago. If the Irish had won the game, yet missed the CFB playoff (likely they would have still ranked behind OU) with just one loss (to #1 Clemson by 2 points), that would have essentially kick started the process of ND self reflection.

Would ND have joined the ACC in 2016? No way, of course not. But if they have 2-3 close misses in a decade and get excluded from the playoff each time, they'll suddenly realize that independence ain't all its cracked up to be. Especially when the college football pundits begin to laugh at, as opposed to lauding, their independence.

ND went nearly 20 years without playing in a national championship game and yet didn't feel compelled to join a football conference.

 

[longtimefan]

I can buy that as coaching is critical and I can see the reasons for optimism with these new hires. But let's face it none of them have proven anything at the major D-1 level. Not a fan of the B1G but Fitzgerald is a very good coach as is Dantonio.

I was just talking about the 4 new hires by each league this year, because that shows a trend. I think the ACC did better, maybe by a lot. And that doesn't even include Hazell at Purdue, who was retained although he is 6-30.

 

[Toga]

So what's everyone think about the chances of Notre Dame becoming a full time member of the ACC?

 

[Moontan]

So what's everyone think about the chances of Notre Dame becoming a full time member of the ACC?

99.44% against, so that leaves .56%.

 

[orange79]

99.44% against, so that leaves .56%.

 

[KaiserUEO]

So what's everyone think about the chances of Notre Dame becoming a full time member of the ACC?

close to zero.

and if clemson wins the NC this year, i say kick em the out for everything else.

screw em.

let em put their olympic sports in the mac.

 

[Alsacs]

close to zero.

and if clemson wins the NC this year, i say kick em the out for everything else.

screw em.

let em put their olympic sports in the mac.

Until ND moves its next two basketball home games to MSG I wish we never played them in basketball.

ND should be kicked out of the ACC and go play in the Big East with their fellow Catholic schools. They didn't want to stay with them even though in the Big East era they always sided with the BB onlies. The 5 games can go away. I have absolutely nothing good to say about Notre Dame.

 

[longtimefan]

They didn't want to stay with them even though in the Big East era they always sided with the BB onlies.
/QUOTE]

This is the salient point. They had sided with the BB-onlys on every important issue for more than 20 years.When the big realignment happened three years ago, it would have been simple, logical and ethical for them to leave all of their non-football sports in the Big East.