Notre Dame To ACC is right strategy

[arbitragegls]

...here's the deal...if we believe super conferences of 16 teams are wave of future...then a good strategy would be:
Invite Nortre Dame into ACC and have it come with either Uconn or Rutgirls or whichever other school chosen...allow Notre Dame to keep its NBC contract through 2015 (believe that is the date) while holding independence in football through that contract...after that contract Notre Dame must join in football also within one year of other conferences becoming super also.

Why is this the strategy good for both ACC and ND:

This gets ND to ACC...brings the ACC to its 16 teams and no doubt holds all members of present ACC--no departures for other conferences--and brings ND all sports within a year of the super conference era.

Notre Dame should do this rather than going to B1G because of demographics, alumns, rivalries, and recruiting. The northeast/southeast is growing population while midwest is declining...ND has significant alumns in the footprint of the ACC...recruits strongly in this area...and several of its long-time rivalries are in ACC as well....

it seems to me to be a good strategy for both the ACC and ND. What do you think?

 

[repos]

Bad idea. I hate Rutgers and Uconn.. they take away from our recruiting. Hope both of them go to C-USA

 

[sufan]

...here's the deal...if we believe super conferences of 16 teams are wave of future...then a good strategy would be:
Invite Nortre Dame into ACC and have it come with either Uconn or Rutgirls or whichever other school chosen...allow Notre Dame to keep its NBC contract through 2015 (believe that is the date) while holding independence in football through that contract...after that contract Notre Dame must join in football also within one year of other conferences becoming super also.

Why is this the strategy good for both ACC and ND:

This gets ND to ACC...brings the ACC to its 16 teams and no doubt holds all members of present ACC--no departures for other conferences--and brings ND all sports within a year of the super conference era.

Notre Dame should do this rather than going to B1G because of demographics, alumns, rivalries, and recruiting. The northeast/southeast is growing population while midwest is declining...ND has significant alumns in the footprint of the ACC...recruits strongly in this area...and several of its long-time rivalries are in ACC as well....

it seems to me to be a good strategy for both the ACC and ND. What do you think?

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ND should do whatever it wants; the ACC should add any all sports members it wants based on equal treatment.

Offering ND some special deal is fine for the Big East for historical reasons and given that there are 7 other Catholic non-football members only.

The ACC is not desperate: it includes a lot of great schools north to south.

 

[44PRIDE]

No special deals...all in or nothing. Take it or leave it.

 

[bevosu]

Not a fan of Notre Dame, but if it adds to the stability of the ACC (keeps teams from looking elsewhere) and the ACC adds a few provisions so that ND doesn't have the ability to yank strings...such as a promise to join as a full member if certain realignments take place, equal TV money sharing when or if they abrogate their NBC contract, I have no immediate problem with it.

I just want them to be an equal member, not a member who thinks they should enjoy special privileges...like they did in the BE.

Should help boost any future TV contract. More money for us.

 

[kingottoiii]

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ND should do whatever it wants; the ACC should add any all sports members it wants based on equal treatment.

Offering ND some special deal is fine for the Big East for historical reasons and given that there are 7 other Catholic non-football members only.

The ACC is not desperate: it includes a lot of great schools north to south.

They are not desperate but they also don't want to be the clear #5 FB conference. With ND, FSU, VT, Clemson, and possibly a Miami comeback the ACC could be fighting for #3 in FB. That is a huge difference.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

As long as Comcast / NBC keeps the checkbook open ... Notre Dame can remain independent for as long as it wants.

 

[Chip]

Why is everyone discounting ND hanging out with the hoops only schools in an all sports conference for a few years? They can test drive it, see if it works, keep their football independence for now. If things start moving toward 10 game conf schedules (hurting their cherished scheduling flexibility), or some type of super conference playoff scenario, they won't be left out. The question is which league do they choose? Anyone will take them.

No matter what happens with Mizzou or the destruction of the Big East, I can't imagine that ND just jumps at a conference as soon as they can to make sure they secure a spot.

 

[arbitragegls]

---------------

ND should do whatever it wants; the ACC should add any all sports members it wants based on equal treatment.

Offering ND some special deal is fine for the Big East for historical reasons and given that there are 7 other Catholic non-football members only.

The ACC is not desperate: it includes a lot of great schools north to south.

there is no special deal here...ND keeps its contract it has with NBC until ended...then football must join its other teams in ACC within one year of super conferences taking shape...ACC gets ND and the benefits from it...note big difference than what occurred in BE with a split bball and football...this is one group of teams acting together

 

[kingottoiii]

I thought ND had a scheduling agreement with the BE. They always play Pitt so I don't really count that. Of the other 7 BE schools they play ONE, in USF. What? Meanwhile they play their normal 3 B1G, 2 P12, and 2 service academies. They normally play BC as well but What is up with playing Wake and MD? Shouldn't they be playing BE teams instead?

Going back they played

2010 only Pitt
2009 Pitt and UConn
2008 Pitt and SU
2007 None
2006 None
2005 Pitt and SU

So since BC left the BE, ND has played 9 games vs 4 BE teams in 7 seasons. Hardly an agreement. That tells you a lot about ND's interests in BE FB. On top of that 7 of those 9 games were against Pitt and SU, who are ACC bound. During that same time ND played 12 regular season games vs 6 ACC teams. Seems like they have more interest in playing them.

 

[sufan]

They are not desperate but they also don't want to be the clear #5 FB conference. With ND, FSU, VT, Clemson, and possibly a Miami comeback the ACC could be fighting for #3 in FB. That is a huge difference.

-----------------------

Adding ND as an all sports team is fine if that's what ND and the ACC want to do.

But adding ND to play 3-5 games against ACC teams they choose to play with other special deals no doubt is asking for trouble. Maybe FSU would like that deal as well.

This year they are again unranked; lost to USF and Michigan and barely beat Pitt. They haven't been a consistent top ten team for a very, very, very long time. When they did get selected to play relatively recent BCS bowls, they routinely lost to the point it became a joke.

My guess is they want to stay in the Big East for their non-football sports and play the national schedule their fans want them to play.

 

[sufan]

there is no special deal here...ND keeps its contract it has with NBC until ended...then football must join its other teams in ACC within one year of super conferences taking shape...ACC gets ND and the benefits from it...note big difference than what occurred in BE with a split bball and football...this is one group of teams acting together

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If ND wants to join as a full sports member, and that's ok with the ACC, that's fine with me.

If they want to join only when "super conferences" take shape, then let them apply to the ACC at that time.

As far as I am concerned, the ACC is currently a super conference, as is the Big 10 and the SEC and PAC 12 and the Big 12. All these schools are moving to 9 conference games a year.

 

[kingottoiii]

-----------------------

Adding ND as an all sports team is fine if that's what ND and the ACC want to do.

But adding ND to play 3-5 games against ACC teams they choose to play with other special deals no doubt is asking for trouble. Maybe FSU would like that deal as well.

This year they are again unranked; lost to USF and Michigan and barely beat Pitt. They haven't been a consistent top ten team for a very, very, very long time. When they did get selected to play relatively recent BCS bowls, they routinely lost to the point it became a joke.

My guess is they want to stay in the Big East for their non-football sports and play the national schedule their fans want them to play.

Personally I think ND will soon lose NBC. I think NBC rather throw money at the B1G and start airing their games in 2017. So if I am NBC, I offer a 3 year extension to ND which will take the contract through 2018. If they swing and miss at the B1G they can extend ND again. If they hit the HR, goodbye ND. Like someone mentioned above give ND the deal with expectation that they join for FB after NBC runs out. If I am FSU I want the ACC to take a crack at ND. They don't want to be the only FB school in a BBall conference.

 

[kingottoiii]

--------------------

If ND wants to join as a full sports member, and that's ok with the ACC, that's fine with me.

If they want to join only when "super conferences" take shape, then let them apply to the ACC at that time.

As far as I am concerned, the ACC is currently a super conference, as is the Big 10 and the SEC and PAC 12 and the Big 12. All these schools are moving to 9 conference games a year.

Having ND in the ACC and giving them a 10 year ultimatum to join for FB gives the ACC more leverage IMO. Having ND in the ACC for the 2014-15 through 2023-24 seasons in all but FB will give the ACC a better chance at getting ND for FB in 2024 than not having ND in for any sports. If that improves the chances of landing ND FB, then what does the ACC have to lose? If ND eventually still says no then goodbye ND for all sports in 2024-2025. Hopefully they say yes for FB before 2024. If NBC keeps using a standard 5 year contract, ND could join in 2021. Or if they do another 5 years after that, they can announce joining the ACC in FB but not play until 2026.

 

[sufan]

Having ND in the ACC and giving them a 10 year ultimatum to join for FB gives the ACC more leverage IMO. Having ND in the ACC for the 2014-15 through 2023-24 seasons in all but FB will give the ACC a better chance at getting ND for FB in 2024 than not having ND in for any sports. If that improves the chances of landing ND FB, then what does the ACC have to lose? If ND eventually still says no then goodbye ND for all sports in 2024-2025. Hopefully they say yes for FB before 2024. If NBC keeps using a standard 5 year contract, ND could join in 2021. Or if they do another 5 years after that, they can announce joining the ACC in FB but not play until 2026.

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"If I am FSU I want the ACC to take a crack at ND. They don't want to be the only FB school in a BBall conference" (kingotto post above)

------

ND and the ACC will no doubt decide what makes sense from their perspective. The ACC has been around the block with ND in 2003 and no doubt recently.

Why should the ACC offer ND a conditional option to join full time in "2024-2026" or a "10 year ultimatum": ND will probably counter and ask for a 50 year ultimatum.

How does adding ND for BB help FSU in football? (Of course, FSU has already lost this year to Wake and Clemson.)

If ND joins the ACC and agrees to play 3-5 games, how will the other ACC teams feel when ND picks and chooses the games it wants to play???????

 

[All4SU]

I just don't see the ACC, B10, SEC or PAC12 offering ANYONE -- ND included -- a partial membership. It dilutes their brand. The BE did it out of necessity. At least the necessity of a conference which was never able to stabilize itself.

 

[Stern]

there is no special deal here...ND keeps its contract it has with NBC until ended...then football must join its other teams in ACC within one year of super conferences taking shape...ACC gets ND and the benefits from it...note big difference than what occurred in BE with a split bball and football...this is one group of teams acting together

Why should ND do it? Every conference would go to 17 or 18 teams if it means adding ND. ND is in no rush

 

[Scooch]

Why is everyone discounting ND hanging out with the hoops only schools in an all sports conference for a few years? They can test drive it, see if it works, keep their football independence for now. If things start moving toward 10 game conf schedules (hurting their cherished scheduling flexibility), or some type of super conference playoff scenario, they won't be left out. The question is which league do they choose? Anyone will take them.

No matter what happens with Mizzou or the destruction of the Big East, I can't imagine that ND just jumps at a conference as soon as they can to make sure they secure a spot.

Your conference games point is an important one. Anyone think we'll see a day when the NCAA allows a 13th regular season game, enabling conferences to go to 10 league games while still being able to schedule 3 OOC games?

If you can't see, I'm raising my hand.

 

[sutomcat]

Why is everyone discounting ND hanging out with the hoops only schools in an all sports conference for a few years? They can test drive it, see if it works, keep their football independence for now. If things start moving toward 10 game conf schedules (hurting their cherished scheduling flexibility), or some type of super conference playoff scenario, they won't be left out. The question is which league do they choose? Anyone will take them.

No matter what happens with Mizzou or the destruction of the Big East, I can't imagine that ND just jumps at a conference as soon as they can to make sure they secure a spot.

ND clearly wants to remain a football independent and they may opt to stay with the hoops only schools for a while. Maybe forever.

However...

I think the day is coming when the BCS will not be so accomodating to football independents. It won't be for a while, probably not until 2016, maybe not for a while longer.

If the Big East football conference goes up in smoke, ND loses its bowl tie ins it got with its association with the conference. This is a big problem. They end up either going to a BCS level top bowl game or some really bad bowl with no payout, a bad TV deal and a bad location. Those are the only bowls that typically have open slots they might be able to secure.

I believe the quality of and interest in a hoops only version of the BE conference will be seriously compromised. The number of games on ESPN will be dramatically reduced. They won't keep their Big Monday slot. ESPN will not want to televise every game. They won't get their conference tournament televised in prime time. If they insist on playing the BET in MSG, it will be an embarassment. The stands will be empty for the early rounds and half full for the finals. None of the hoops only schools draws big crowds to the BET. They better hope for some great St John's teams to get any interest from the NYC area at all.

Far fewer TV appearances. Dramatically reduced TV dollars. Dramatically reduced visibility. No access to decent fall back bowls in the (likely) event ND does not earn a BCS level bowl.

Those are the downsides I see. If the BE can keep UL and UConn, I think the hoops league will be a lot stronger, TV will have a lot more interest and ND might be able to tolerate staying.

 

[Townie72]

...here's the deal...if we believe super conferences of 16 teams are wave of future...then a good strategy would be:
Invite Nortre Dame into ACC and have it come with either Uconn or Rutgirls or whichever other school chosen...allow Notre Dame to keep its NBC contract through 2015 (believe that is the date) while holding independence in football through that contract...after that contract Notre Dame must join in football also within one year of other conferences becoming super also.

Why is this the strategy good for both ACC and ND:

This gets ND to ACC...brings the ACC to its 16 teams and no doubt holds all members of present ACC--no departures for other conferences--and brings ND all sports within a year of the super conference era.

Notre Dame should do this rather than going to B1G because of demographics, alumns, rivalries, and recruiting. The northeast/southeast is growing population while midwest is declining...ND has significant alumns in the footprint of the ACC...recruits strongly in this area...and several of its long-time rivalries are in ACC as well....

it seems to me to be a good strategy for both the ACC and ND. What do you think?

ND to the ACC as oppossed to the B1G?

Well at least you tried to be logical. But your supporting points don't really hold water.

Demographics? You are right that the ACC States have grown faster then the B1G rust belt ones. But there are still more of people in the rust belt. And if you really wanted to chase growth ... the real growth has been in TX, AZ, CA.

Alums? Most ND alumni are in the Midwest and the East and it isn't even close.

Long term rivals? You must be kidding. Which rivals are you talking about? Pitt? Well maybe Pitt. But the B1G dominates this. MSU, MICH, Purdue/ These are the schools that are ND long-time rivals.

Recruiting? ND recruits nationally and plays nationally. Joining the ACC and becoming more of a Southeastern school probably hurts ND's recruiting efforts.

The overwhelmingly obvious home for ND --- if they join a conference --- is the B1G. The only person I know of that thought ND would go to the ACC was the clueless Maryann Fox, who left ND to be the Pres of NCSU back during the first ACC raid of the Big East.

You are aware that they (ND) have already been down the application process to the Big 10 and declined the invitation at the last minute.

 

[rrlbees]

If the Big East football conference goes up in smoke, ND loses its bowl tie ins it got with its association with the conference. This is a big problem. They end up either going to a BCS level top bowl game or some really bad bowl with no payout, a bad TV deal and a bad location. Those are the only bowls that typically have open slots they might be able to secure.

Could a bowl, or bowls, not set up an agreement with 2 conferences? Say the Champs Bowl. Could they have a contract with the ACC to take their #2 team while leaving the opponent TBD thus allowing them to take anyone including an indie such as ND?

 

[orange79]

Could a bowl, or bowls, not set up an agreement with 2 conferences? Say the Champs Bowl. Could they have a contract with the ACC to take their #2 team while leaving the opponent TBD thus allowing them to take anyone including an indie such as ND?

They could, but I'm not sure any bowls actually do this, do they? I just glanced at couple of lists and didn't see a bowl not associated with a specific conference or school. Doesn't mean they couldn't, but they might be taking a chance of getting shut out of a team to fill the slot if not enough teams finish at or over .500. Of course, I'm not sure that ever happened either.

 

[Chip]

Your conference games point is an important one. Anyone think we'll see a day when the NCAA allows a 13th regular season game, enabling conferences to go to 10 league games while still being able to schedule 3 OOC games?

If you can't see, I'm raising my hand.

I'd like to take credit, but I plagiarized that point from a kingotto post. I just wanted him to know I was paying attention.

 

[arbitragegls]

ND to the ACC as oppossed to the B1G?

Well at least you tried to be logical. But your supporting points don't really hold water.

Demographics? You are right that the ACC States have grown faster then the B1G rust belt ones. But there are still more of people in the rust belt. And if you really wanted to chase growth ... the real growth has been in TX, AZ, CA.

Alums? Most ND alumni are in the Midwest and the East and it isn't even close.

Long term rivals? You must be kidding. Which rivals are you talking about? Pitt? Well maybe Pitt. But the B1G dominates this. MSU, MICH, Purdue/ These are the schools that are ND long-time rivals.

Recruiting? ND recruits nationally and plays nationally. Joining the ACC and becoming more of a Southeastern school probably hurts ND's recruiting efforts.

The overwhelmingly obvious home for ND --- if they join a conference --- is the B1G. The only person I know of that thought ND would go to the ACC was the clueless Maryann Fox, who left ND to be the Pres of NCSU back during the first ACC raid of the Big East.

You are aware that they (ND) have already been down the application process to the Big 10 and declined the invitation at the last minute.

Good thinking but:

1. Census data shows midwest declining in population while ACC area growing...not as fast as southwest but more so than midwest
2. Notre Dame just put its hockey team in the Eastern conference not the midwestern...surprised a lot of folk, but not their alumni
3. You are right, Notre Dame has turned down the B1g Ten..and its more than once
--what does a private institution have in common with land grant state universities---most of B1g 10--fewer in ACC
--note why most thought Rutgirls not 'Cuse would be choice of B1g if it came to that
4. Recruits nationally and will continue to do so...but high school population is greater in ACC area and ACC has Florida
5. Rivalries are interesting...don't forget Navy, USC, Pitt, BC and 'Cuse...

Let's do this...a congratulatory drink that 'Cuse is safely and correctly in the ACC and ND eventually joins us...I buy the drink if this doesnt happen and you...you if ND goes B1g.

 

[rrlbees]

They could, but I'm not sure any bowls actually do this, do they? I just glanced at couple of lists and didn't see a bowl not associated with a specific conference or school. Doesn't mean they couldn't, but they might be taking a chance of getting shut out of a team to fill the slot if not enough teams finish at or over .500. Of course, I'm not sure that ever happened either.

Nobody does right now. I was just asking peoples thoughts.