Nova represents everything right about CBB

[tbonezone]

absolutely spanking the huskies.

 

[Alsacs]

Villanova has like 1 NBA player in its rotation and they just run good offense and play annoying defense.

UConn blows th0ugh.

 

[Forloveoforange]

There is nothing right about annoying defense. Maybe the title should have said Wright.

 

[sufandu]

We recruit for the zone first, which means we look for 6'4"+ pgs. There aren't many of those. If/when we miss out on those guys, we are left with the guys we have been getting.

Maybe that's a mistake. Fwiw, GMac was listed as 6'2" and Tyler Ennis and Jalen Carey are listed as 6'3".

 

[pearl31]

so much so that Nova is going to be sainted by the pope

 

[Sherman20]

I actually don't disagree vehemently with your rather well-thought out post.

But this ain't gonna be any slam-dunk after JB leaves. The opinion of some on here is that when JB leaves we'll be able to attract a coach that will be as successful or more successful. (Especially if the new coach will implement some of the different strategies they have wishing for sitting in their vinyl Laz-R-Boys sucking down Genesee Lights.)

I see the transition as being difficult and fraught with risk. And very likely to result in a period in which things get worse before they get better.

No question that SU has a large and dedicated fan base NOW. But that fan base and the enthusiasm that underlies it is pretty fragile. The SU football experience pretty much proves that.

It's always been the excellence of the SU BB product that has driven the big attendance numbers. Some seem to feel it works the other way or that it could work the other way.

The proximity of a fertile recruiting base is relative. I'd say SU's position is relatively weak. It's 300 miles from the nearest hotbed.

To see this you need to compare it to schools that are much closer to recruiting hotbeds. By comparison, The University of Maryland is in Prince Georges County, one of the most fertile recruiting grounds in the country (Kevin Garnett and many others). It's on the same street as DeMatha High School a couple of miles away. and its half an hour from Baltimore. Georgetown is close by.

Fans, from what I have seen, have a tendency to over-rate the attractiveness of their coaching vacancies. They start out assuming that they can get the best coaching prospects in the country to apply and then the school can just pick one.

The way it seems to work is that these jobs need to be promotions for the incoming coach. Very few are interested in near lateral moves. Guys coming up from Mid-Majors undergo learning curves and down periods while they put their systems in. Programs frequently never really recover (e.g. Indiana)

There's also SU's "pickiness" when it comes to coaching hires. I have watched some WVU games. Does anybody actually think SU would hire a guy like Huggins? He's a hell of a coach, but it would never happen.

I thought George O'Leary would have been a good choice for football. But SU heard about the resume flap, that occurred while he was here, and wouldn't even consider the guy.

Boeheim is one of the best coaches in college basketball and has been for many, many years. When he leaves, SU will probably not be upgrading the coaching position.

We may have an opportunity to see happy some of our fans are when SU loses 20 games in a season but runs M2M defense.

I agree that people are insane thinking the next coach, whoever that is, will automatically be more successful than JB. We likely won’t be able to win at a similar rate unless we make an excellent hire, which will be a challenge (but not an enormous lift, as you seem to think). As you said, it’s far from a slam dunk. But I think JB has set the program up to have a chance at long-term success if we make a good hire. JB is wildly under-appreciated by some of the louder naysayers on this board. He’s one of the best ever. Hopefully we can attract someone that can get close to that success—and won’t leave for the NBA or elsewhere. That’s why I wanted Hop. He knows how to win at SU.

 

[Townie72]

I agree that people are insane thinking the next coach, whoever that is, will automatically be more successful than JB. We likely won’t be able to win at a similar rate unless we make an excellent hire, which will be a challenge (but not an enormous lift, as you seem to think). As you said, it’s far from a slam dunk. But I think JB has set the program up to have a chance at long-term success if we make a good hire. JB is wildly under-appreciated by some of the louder naysayers on this board. He’s one of the best ever. Hopefully we can attract someone that can get close to that success—and won’t leave for the NBA or elsewhere. That’s why I wanted Hop. He knows how to win at SU.

I'm watching Maryland at Indiana as I type. Two programs with great traditions, big fan bases and very good facilities. Neither even is "among those also getting votes".

I agree on Hop. But for some reason either he didn't want the SU job or they didn't want him or both to a degree. Of course the conspiracy theorists have their opinions.

 

[two3zone]

I don't remember reading that Danny Schayes autograph thread. How did I miss it, what a classic thread.

How about we revive that twitter account.

It is frustrating...

 

[Sherman20]

I'm watching Maryland at Indiana as I type. Two programs with great traditions, big fan bases and very good facilities. Neither even is "among those also getting votes".

I agree on Hop. But for some reason either he didn't want the SU job or they didn't want him or both to a degree. Of course the conspiracy theorists have their opinions.

Appreciate the discussion.

But I have to push back. I don’t agree that Indiana and Maryland are awful programs now. They’re both having down years. It happens. Just like us. Indiana had a #1 seed a few years ago and made the tourney for most of Crean’s tenure after he pulled them out of the Sampson debacle. Yes, they weren’t dominant and competing for national titles, but they were solid. imo Crean was just the wrong coach to get them to that level and go far in the NCAA’s. Others feel like he wasn’t given enough time. I think the jury is still out on that question. As for Maryland, same thing. They had several good years in a row after Turgeon finally got things going with Melo Trimble, etc. They landed top 4 seeds in the tourney and top 3-4 in the Big Ten for several years. they’re rebuilding this year, but their recruiting is really picking up going forward. They’ll be fine. It takes time to gain consistency and build a culture.

I can cherry pick programs and snapshots like that too. What about Purdue? They had a very good initial run under Painter after longtime legend Keady retired. Then a couple of years of struggle after losing their initial recruiting momentum. But now they’re back as a steady top 25 and top 4 Big 10 team. they hired a Purdue guy in Painter after Keady retired, and it was the right move. That’s why I think Hop will eventually be enticed to return.

I always argue schools shouldn’t be so quick to discard good coaches (if they believe in them) just because of a couple of difficult years. I remember Cincinnati fans calling for Cronin’s head in like year 3 or 4, and I was thinking, these people need to be more patient. He’s a good coach, the Big East is an insane gauntlet. it takes time to break out of the lower tier and get to the middle tier and start landing NCAA bids. He got them there in year 4 or 5, and they haven’t looked back since. the AAC is no Big East but they’re consistently one of the 2 or 3 best schools in that league. No shame in that.

Pitt allowing Dixon to walk away was insane and beyond idiotic.

Should Nova have fired Jay Wright after a couple of down years (including a losing season) and only one Final Four in 14 years? Look at them now.

I love JB and what he’s done. But I’m just way more bullish on SU’s post-JB future than you are. I have no doubt that with the right hire Cuse will remain a steady top 20 program for years to come.

 

[orangecuse]

I'm watching Maryland at Indiana as I type. Two programs with great traditions, big fan bases and very good facilities. Neither even is "among those also getting votes".

I agree on Hop. But for some reason either he didn't want the SU job or they didn't want him or both to a degree. Of course the conspiracy theorists have their opinions.

Well, in the past 4 seasons, with JB at the helm, SU has found itself quite a bit outside of the "among those also getting votes" category.

Hopkins absolutely wanted the job here, it's is why he stayed as long as he did, along with the "coach in waiting" status. JB went to his superiors and wanted another 5 years, they turned him down. Mike, being a loyal soldier to JB all these years, was in a very difficult situation as he knew how strongly JB's desire to stay was. It made Mike extremely uncomfortable, and uneasy, especially how he felt about JB. Mike had shown/shared those emotions publicly in the past as well. (See the Hop to Washington thread).

SU made its public announcement afterwards, put their PR spin on it, etc. But, in the end, JB got his wish of 5 years (not a coincidence in any way) although not the way he originally drew it up.

People can believe what they want to believe as they always do. My belief is based upon a couple of very solid sources.

 

[Townie72]

Sherman;

You wrote, "I have no doubt that with the right hire Cuse will remain a steady top 20 program for years to come."

REALLY? You have NO doubt? (I actually don't believe that you don't have any doubt.)

Well I have enough doubt for both of us then.

I'd put the odds at 50-50. I think the success of the program to date has been unlikely. SU has out-performed what might ordinarily been expected given the school and the location.

It was the fortunate coming together of a number of factors including the birth and rise of the Big East.

And the "right hire" to me is a crap shoot. I'm not among those that feels that SU can hire anyone it wants to because its Syracuse and we play in the ACC and in the Dome. It will be an attractive job, but its not as attractive as some of our fans think it is.

If the new coach wants to take a different direction from JB --- and I think that's highly likely given the unorthodox approach of JBs --- there will be a lengthy transition period. Recruits are going to be wary. It's a Hell of a challenge.

 

[Townie72]

Well, in the past 4 seasons, with JB at the helm, SU has found itself quite a bit outside of the "among those also getting votes" category.

Hopkins absolutely wanted the job here, it's is why he stayed as long as he did, along with the "coach in waiting" status. JB went to his superiors and wanted another 5 years, they turned him down. Mike, being a loyal soldier to JB all these years, was in a very difficult situation as he knew how strongly JB's desire to stay was. It made Mike extremely uncomfortable, and uneasy, especially how he felt about JB. Mike had shown/shared those emotions publicly in the past as well. (See the Hop to Washington thread).

SU made its public announcement afterwards, put their PR spin on it, etc. But, in the end, JB got his wish of 5 years (not a coincidence in any way) although not the way he originally drew it up.

People can believe what they want to believe as they always do. My belief is based upon a couple of very solid sources.

You can believe who you want.

But to me your version sounds like the output of a brainstorming session with a conspiracy theorist and a writer for the Daytime soap operas as the principle contributors.

Hop's logic for taking the UW job seemed sound and looks like it is working out.

In order for your version to be true, all of the people would have to be outrageous, repeated liars. I choose to believe JB, Hop and Wildhack.

You are obviously free to believe who you want.

But I will say to come on a message board with a bunch of rumors and suggest its the truth because it comes from unnamed "solid" sources is easy to do but --- to me --- not very credible.

 

[orangecuse]

You can believe who you want.

But to me your version sounds like the output of a brainstorming session with a conspiracy theorist and a writer for the Daytime soap operas as the principle contributors.

Hop's logic for taking the UW job seemed sound and looks like it is working out.

In order for your version to be true, all of the people would have to be outrageous, repeated liars. I choose to believe JB, Hop and Wildhack.

You are obviously free to believe who you want.

But I will say to come on a message board with a bunch of rumors and suggest its the truth because it comes from unnamed "solid" sources is easy to do but --- to me --- not very credible.

Indeed, you can believe who you want too. I won't write it twice as you did, or three times, etc. to be disparaging and snide in the additional comments you made. I hope that makes you feel better about yourself.

I choose to believe the sources as they had absolutely no motivation or incentive to tell me otherwise. I've known them for years. One source is very close to the program and has been for years, which also includes accompanying them (coaches and other staff members) occasionally on private plane(s). I will not name them, whether you feel that isn't credible, so be it. You implying that "all of the people would have to be outrageous, repeated liars" are your words and your own thinking as well.

Most people are aware of PR, the in's and out's of same, etc. Have you not ever seen one of the daily Sarah Huckabee press conferences? What about JB saying in a presser that being thin (Marek) has no bearing whatsoever on rebounding, ability to play, etc., then a short time later pulls a complete 180 in another. Now, what is the truth? Well, we all have the ability to decipher information how we choose, and, we can all chose to do that without any 'seeded' need to be disparaging towards others if we do not share that same belief. Peace.

 

[Townie72]

Indeed, you can believe who you want too. I won't write it twice as you did, or three times, etc. to be disparaging and snide in the additional comments you made. I hope that makes you feel better about yourself.

I choose to believe the sources as they had absolutely no motivation or incentive to tell me otherwise. I've known them for years. One source is very close to the program and has been for years, which also includes accompanying them (coaches and other staff members) occasionally on private plane(s). I will not name them, whether you feel that isn't credible, so be it. You implying that "all of the people would have to be outrageous, repeated liars" are your words and your own thinking as well.

Most people are aware of PR, the in's and out's of same, etc. Have you not ever seen one of the daily Sarah Huckabee press conferences? What about JB saying in a presser that being thin (Marek) has no bearing whatsoever on rebounding, ability to play, etc., then a short time later pulls a complete 180 in another. Now, what is the truth? Well, we all have the ability to decipher information how we choose, and, we can all chose to do that without any 'seeded' need to be disparaging towards others if we do not share that same belief. Peace.

I don't know what you are taking umbrage about. I was characterizing the narrative or the story. I didn't say you were a conspiracy theorist.

You are just passing along what you heard, right?

It reminds me of working in a large corporation, which I did my whole life.

When a controversial decision was made or was about to be made, the rumors always suggested a degree of conspiracy and intricacy surrounding a decision that never or rarely existed.

 

[Sherman20]

This is exactly what happened. I’ve heard the same.

Well, in the past 4 seasons, with JB at the helm, SU has found itself quite a bit outside of the "among those also getting votes" category.

Hopkins absolutely wanted the job here, it's is why he stayed as long as he did, along with the "coach in waiting" status. JB went to his superiors and wanted another 5 years, they turned him down. Mike, being a loyal soldier to JB all these years, was in a very difficult situation as he knew how strongly JB's desire to stay was. It made Mike extremely uncomfortable, and uneasy, especially how he felt about JB. Mike had shown/shared those emotions publicly in the past as well. (See the Hop to Washington thread).

SU made its public announcement afterwards, put their PR spin on it, etc. But, in the end, JB got his wish of 5 years (not a coincidence in any way) although not the way he originally drew it up.

People can believe what they want to believe as they always do. My belief is based upon a couple of very solid sources.

 

[jncuse]

And the "right hire" to me is a crap shoot. I'm not among those that feels that SU can hire anyone it wants to because its Syracuse and we play in the ACC and in the Dome. It will be an attractive job, but its not as attractive as some of our fans think it is.

The right hire doesn't have to be the most attractive candidate.

But the thing with "right hires" is you often never know until after a number of years if it was the "right hire". Except for Kevin Stallings.

 

[Townie72]

This is exactly what happened. I’ve heard the same.

That you "heard" the same thing does not make it a fact.

It could mean you are the consumer and possibly the repeater of the same rumor (which could have absolutely no basis in fact.)

The only guys who know what happen (Widhack, Hopkins and Boeheim) have given a different story.

It's all in who you want to believe.

 

[Townie72]

The right hire doesn't have to be the most attractive candidate.

But the thing with "right hires" is you often never know until after a number of years if it was the "right hire". Except for Kevin Stallings.

I have no clue what any of this means. Unless you are trying to say that a successful coach may not have been the most "attractive" candidate when he was hired.