Nova represents everything right about CBB

[orangecuse]

Respectfully disagree. The sanctions made early departures hurt more than they should have and there wasn't much the staff could due to alleviate that, short of getting their hands on a crystal ball or a genie lamp. Tyler Lydon was recruited to be a 4 year player (3 years at the ver very very least). He left after two. Malachi left after an awesomely average season because he happened to get hot in the tournament. Kaleb Joseph turned out to be an anxiety ridden headcase who forgot how to dribble and we couldn't recruit depth to back him up. It all adds up and it all comes back to the sanctions. The sanctions and threat of sanctions must've certainly hurt the number of interested prospects, so the coaches were working with a smaller talent pool than usual. And the restrictions on the number of coaches who could be recruiting at one time had to have hurt a lot, too.

I don't see how anything but the sanctions was the primary driver of our downfall. Take the sanctions away, and you think we'd be where we're at right now?

No need for you to write anymore than the bolded, as that speaks volumes of your mindset. Your additional comments above that may convince you, but it isn't going to persuade me (or others) in convincing fashion that the sanctions are the proximate cause of our recent mediocrity. I believe the lion's share of our current state falls upon more of what Alsacs alludes to. Ultimately though, people believe what they want/choose to believe.

 

[Townie72]

If somebody compared Jim Boeheim to Bobby Bowden you would go crazy.

We are just lucky Villanova plays their games on FS1 and people don’t see them.
Jay Wright is going to have more 30 wins seasons than JB after this year.

Sorry JB has failed you.

There are Villanova hats and shirts at your local sporting goods store. You could convert.

 

[Alsacs]

Sorry JB has failed you.

There are Villanova hats and shirts at your local sporting goods store. You could convert.

Thank god you are the minority.
Not just the minority but the overwhelming minority.
That is all I can say.

 

[orangecuse]

JB does like his system. If it's true that Brunson was a surefire commit who JB passed on, then shame on JB. Brunson wouldn't have supplanted Gbinije as the PG but it was clear at that point - or should have been - that Kaleb wasn't going to workout, so Brunson should have been brought in to take the reins as a sophomore. Again, if he was as interested in coming here as it's rumored.

I'm hesitant to go after the staff for not getting a PG after that because I think the effort was there. The staff just swung for the fences a couple times and whiffed. They didn't have 'plan b' guys, but how much of that was due to the severe limits on recruiting because of the sanctions and how much was a conscious decision that would have stood if the sanctions weren't imposed? Maybe Brunson, or guys like him, would be Orange if the staff wasn't forced to play 5 card poker with just 3 cards.

FWIW, the zone is not historically good with short guards. As committed to the zone as JB is, I can understand not going after sub 6ft. tall guards. Continuing with the Brunson thing, I think he's currently listed as a generous 6'1". Coming out of high school, some reputable sites had him at 5'10" and he's not terribly athletic. Should he have received an offer if he was interested? Yes, we weren't in a position to pass on 5 star talent. Did he fit our system? No.

But yet you stated this above, "I don't see how anything but the sanctions was the primary driver of our downfall." So the bolded part of your comments are what, secondary/consequential then as you "see it?" This, in part, is why I diplomatically disagree with your mindset. But again, as I said, people believe what they want to believe.

 

[jncuse]

Is it inappropriate for me to point out that Villanova plays in a midmajor conference or do we still have to pretend all the midmajors mashed up in that thing are legit now because they're ranked?

The same tired point every year. The Big East is not the ACC level of last year, but it certainly is in the middle of the pack of the P5 schools year after year. It deserve major status.

#1. The Big East is 18-17 against the other P5 schools this year
#2. The Big East is #3 in Conference RPI.
#3. 6 of its 10 teams are top 42 in KenPom.

Is it as good as the ACC? No. But every year it's better than a few of the P5. The Big East is a major basketball conference.

 

[Killdozer]

We have 11 scholarships.
There is no excuse for only having 3 guys who can score.

That isn’t on sanctions. Also all we have heard is JB doesn’t play a lot of people and never has a full roster of 13.
Sanctions isn’t why we have fallen as far as we have.

Wish I could like this a million times!

 

[Brooky03]

No need for you to write anymore than the bolded, as that speaks volumes of your mindset. Your additional comments above that may convince you, but it isn't going to persuade me (or others) in convincing fashion that the sanctions are the proximate cause of our recent mediocrity. I believe the lion's share of our current state falls upon more of what Alsacs alludes to. Ultimately though, people believe what they want/choose to believe.

Did the coaches have travel restrictions and restrictions on the amount of staff allowed to be on the road at the same time? Yes. Does having less recruiters and less contact (by rule) with recruits make recruiting significantly harder? Yes. Did we have less spots available on the roster for scholarship players? Yes. Does that make it more difficult to plan for the future when guys leave earlier than expected for various reasons? Yes

What am I missing?

JB wasn't on the road much. Everybody knows that. Hop did the bulk of the work (like he'd done for the last decade). Everybody knows that. JB watched his sons games since he couldn't be out on the recruiting trail. Everybody knows that. As a bonus, he got to see some of the talent his son played against, kind of circumventing some of the sanctions. Everybody knows that.

So JB picking his nose on the bleachers of his son's games is the reason we suck now? Not the fact that he was limited by the sanctions? It would have been better for him to have his best recruiters sit in an office with their thumbs up their butts so the old man could watch AAU games?

Unbelievable.

 

[Ajflood12]

Respectfully disagree. The sanctions made early departures hurt more than they should have and there wasn't much the staff could due to alleviate that, short of getting their hands on a crystal ball or a genie lamp. Tyler Lydon was recruited to be a 4 year player (3 years at the ver very very least). He left after two. Malachi left after an awesomely average season because he happened to get hot in the tournament. Kaleb Joseph turned out to be an anxiety ridden headcase who forgot how to dribble and we couldn't recruit depth to back him up. It all adds up and it all comes back to the sanctions. The sanctions and threat of sanctions must've certainly hurt the number of interested prospects, so the coaches were working with a smaller talent pool than usual. And the restrictions on the number of coaches who could be recruiting at one time had to have hurt a lot, too.

I don't see how anything but the sanctions was the primary driver of our downfall. Take the sanctions away, and you think we'd be where we're at right now?

I agree with this...we are stuck in this perpetual cycle of talented players leaving early or being injured. To add to your list TT would have been the scoring center we need this year. McCullough leaving after tearing up his knee. DC2 never being dependable with his knee. The fact we have had 4 transfers in the past two years it telling given we never took transfers.

Also, doesn't help that we couldn't get the complete staff out recruiting for a few years and it seems that our lead recruiter took last year off.

 

[Killdozer]

Respectfully disagree. The sanctions made early departures hurt more than they should have and there wasn't much the staff could due to alleviate that, short of getting their hands on a crystal ball or a genie lamp. Tyler Lydon was recruited to be a 4 year player (3 years at the ver very very least). He left after two. Malachi left after an awesomely average season because he happened to get hot in the tournament. Kaleb Joseph turned out to be an anxiety ridden headcase who forgot how to dribble and we couldn't recruit depth to back him up. It all adds up and it all comes back to the sanctions. The sanctions and threat of sanctions must've certainly hurt the number of interested prospects, so the coaches were working with a smaller talent pool than usual. And the restrictions on the number of coaches who could be recruiting at one time had to have hurt a lot, too.

I don't see how anything but the sanctions was the primary driver of our downfall. Take the sanctions away, and you think we'd be where we're at right now?

Yes......

 

[Brooky03]

The same tired point every year. The Big East is not the ACC level of last year, but it certainly is in the middle of the pack of the P5 schools year after year. It deserve major status.

#1. The Big East is 18-17 against the other P5 schools this year
#2. The Big East is #3 in Conference RPI.
#3. 6 of its 10 teams are top 42 in KenPom.

Is it as good as the ACC? No. But every year it's better than a few of the P5. The Big East is a major basketball conference.

So we're still pretending? Got it. Just checking.

 

[cuse10]

Why didn’t we recruit a PG in the Richardson/Lydon/Howard class?

Why didn’t we recruit a PG in the Battle class?

We lost in Greene in last years class.

We have gone 3 straight classes without a pure PG and people want to blame sanctions?
It’s on the coaching staff and not getting a freaking PG and having s SG play PG.

It explains why we have poor guard play and struggle in the half court.

Who's we? You're not on the recruiting trail or on the roster.

It's mind blowing how many people on this board think that bringing in players is that easy. If it were, SU would have a top 5 class every year with the talent that they've gone after. With the exception of Quade, the staff has done what they could to get players to come here. They've gone after shooters (Kevin Huerter, Alex O'Connell, Jordan Tucker) who can stretch the floor to big men (Nick Richards, Mo Bamba) who will command double teams in the paint because of their skill in the interior. You can only get guys to come to Syracuse that want to play here. Some recruitments are controlled by a parent, advisor or AAU/HS coach that has their own interests in mind; Naz Reid (a one-time Syracuse target) being one of those guys.

 

[moqui]

This is going to probably be their 5th year in a row winning 30 games, and they're doing it with 4-year student athletes, not 1 year rent-a-players. They have only had three players drafted to the NBA in the past decade, and they're all seniors. Not since Kyle Lowry left after his sophomore year in 2006 have they had someone leave early.

They also score 88 points per game, and shoot 52% from the floor, 76% from the line, 42% from three as a team. It's unreal how well they put the ball in the hoop. The most inefficient scorer of their top 7-8 players is Omari Spellman, and his FG% is .477. They average 18 assists per game compared to our 11.

don't mean to crap in your cornflakes, but for perspective:

if they make it, it will be their 4th year with 30 wins; they were 29-5 in 2014.

you are right, they are on a great run. but these things run in cycles . their great run began in 2014 and coincides with the season that syracuse, uconn, louisville, pitt and notre dame left the big east, clearing the path for them. the three seasons prior to that they were a pedestrian 54-45 with 2 first round ncaa tournament exits and a year where they didn't even qualify for the nit. and while they have built up those gaudy numbers during this run, it hasn't always translated to the postseason: outside of their national title year, they have 3 first weekend exits to show for it.

since 2009, nova is 13-7 in the ncaa tournament, with 2 final fours and a national title. syracuse is 17-7 with two final fours in the same span

 

[orangecuse]

Did the coaches have travel restrictions and restrictions on the amount of staff allowed to be on the road at the same time? Yes. Does having less recruiters and less contact (by rule) with recruits make recruiting significantly harder? Yes. Did we have less spots available on the roster for scholarship players? Yes. Does that make it more difficult to plan for the future when guys leave earlier than expected for various reasons? Yes

What am I missing?

JB wasn't on the road much. Everybody knows that. Hop did the bulk of the work (like he'd done for the last decade). Everybody knows that. JB watched his sons games since he couldn't be out on the recruiting trail. Everybody knows that. As a bonus, he got to see some of the talent his son played against, kind of circumventing some of the sanctions. Everybody knows that.

So JB picking his nose on the bleachers of his son's games is the reason we suck now? Not the fact that he was limited by the sanctions? It would have been better for him to have his best recruiters sit in an office with their thumbs up their butts so the old man could watch AAU games?

Unbelievable.

Leaving emotion out of the equation, JB chose not to go out on the road much, watching his son play more often than being out recruiting, etc., etc. JB is the captain of the ship, and bears responsibility for the sanctions. Remember, JB had a set retirement date given to him by his superiors (whether he liked it or not) and some of his actions supported the lame duck mentality. It's only human to do so.

I'm not implying that the sanctions didn't play any role relative to our current dilemma, however, in my opinion, I believe other aforementioned factors (some mentioned by Alsacs and some by others such as RF, etc.) have had a larger and more significant impact.

 

[Alsacs]

JB wasn’t doing the recruiting on the road before Hop left.
The sanctions restricted us to 2 coaches on the road instead of 3.
JB was the closer under Hop.

Hop did the heavy lifting and JB closed.
So we lost 1 coach on the road.
There was an article that showed how we still had all our coaches on the road but one of them would remain at the hotel while the 2 others would be at these huge AAU events and we would rotate one of the 3 at the hotel. So while that was an inconvenience it’s not why we haven’t recruited PGs as hard as we should have.
GMac had Quade Green we have all heard and I believe it until Calipari came in.

Well we had no backup and that is crazy. Especially after not having a PG recruit since Kaleb Joseph in 2013.
That drought is why we are struggling now and have had to go after grad transfers.

We need to recruit PGs.
Howard Washington will be a player in 2 years. Thank god we have a development prospect now.
We should be taking more.

 

[Brooky03]

Leaving emotion out of the equation, JB chose not to go out on the road much, watching his son play more often than being out recruiting, etc., etc. JB is the captain of the ship, and bears responsibility for the sanctions. Remember, JB had a set retirement date given to him by his superiors (whether he liked it or not) and some of his actions supported the lame duck mentality. It's only human to do so.

I'm not implying that the sanctions didn't play any role relative to our current dilemma, however, in my opinion, I believe other aforementioned factors (some mentioned by Alsacs and some by others such as RF, etc.) have had a larger and more significant impact.

I think the factors they referenced were directly influenced by the sanctions, sanctions JB is required to take responsibility for but sanctions that are often noted by non-Syracuse CBB analysts as having little to do with JB. He couldn't have prevented much of what the program was popped for, but that's an argument for another day.

If the sanctions weren't handed down, would we have more wins or less wins now? I'd say more, significantly. If we had a full compliment of recruiting tools and scholarships at our disposal, would we have had more/better recruits on the roster or less? I'd say more, significantly.

The sanctions were the first domino to fall. Maybe JB getting lazy was a bigger domino that knocked over a bunch of dominoes after it fell. But what's more to blame for the dominoes falling? The one that started the whole chain reaction or the, arguably, bigger one somewhere down the line that knocked extra dominoes over?

 

[Townie72]

Thank god you are the minority.
Not just the minority but the overwhelming minority.
That is all I can say.

You mean alumni who are long time fans and believe JB has been and is a superior coach are a tiny minority?

And that frustrated critics that believe they know better --- but have never coached anything --- are the majority?

 

[NineOneSeven]

You mean alumni who are long time fans and believe JB has been and is a superior coach are a tiny minority?

And that frustrated critics that believe they know better --- but have never coached anything --- are the majority?

What's it like to walk around with a hardy 24/7 thinking about how youre going to predictably post the same thing over and over in defense of everything Jimmy B?

 

[SoBeCuse]

So we're still pretending? Got it. Just checking.

So what happens if two Big East teams (say Villanova or Xavier/Seton Hall) get to the Final 4 this year and the ACC struggles again in the Tourney? Would not surprise me at all. What would be your reaction?

Obviously it’s a different animal being in the ACC with finances, cache, etc. Most years it is generally the deepest conference but obviously last year UNC somewhat saved the conference from a disastrous post season. Notre Dame, FSU, Virginia, and Miami all got SLAUGHTERED early in the Tourney. Duke and VT lost in decisive decisions against South Carolina and Wisconsin early as well.

The quality of basketball in the Big East is very good and has been for awhile now. The metrics and eye test all validate this.

 

[Eric15]

So we're still pretending? Got it. Just checking.

Do you feel the SEC and Pac-12 are stronger basketball conferences than the Big East?

 

[Brooky03]

Do you feel the SEC and Pac-12 are stronger basketball conferences than the Big East?

I feel the ACC and B1G are the only conferences that matter.

 

[Brooky03]

So what happens if two Big East teams (say Villanova or Xavier/Seton Hall) get to the Final 4 this year and the ACC struggles again in the Tourney? Would not surprise me at all. What would be your reaction?

Obviously it’s a different animal being in the ACC with finances, cache, etc. Most years it is generally the deepest conference but obviously last year UNC somewhat saved the conference from a disastrous post season. Notre Dame, FSU, Virginia, and Miami all got SLAUGHTERED early in the Tourney. Duke and VT lost in decisive decisions against South Carolina and Wisconsin early as well.

The quality of basketball in the Big East is very good and has been for awhile now. The metrics and eye test all validate this.

Considering the NCAAT format has never done a good job of determining the best teams in college basketball? My reaction would probably be, "meh," like it usually is.

 

[Alsacs]

Who's we? You're not on the recruiting trail or on the roster.

It's mind blowing how many people on this board think that bringing in players is that easy. If it were, SU would have a top 5 class every year with the talent that they've gone after. With the exception of Quade, the staff has done what they could to get players to come here. They've gone after shooters (Kevin Huerter, Alex O'Connell, Jordan Tucker) who can stretch the floor to big men (Nick Richards, Mo Bamba) who will command double teams in the paint because of their skill in the interior. You can only get guys to come to Syracuse that want to play here. Some recruitments are controlled by a parent, advisor or AAU/HS coach that has their own interests in mind; Naz Reid (a one-time Syracuse target) being one of those guys.

Your post deserves no more of a response.

 

[Townie72]

What's it like to walk around with a hardy 24/7 thinking about how youre going to predictably post the same thing over and over in defense of everything Jimmy B?

What's it like to imagine you actually know more than JB?

 

[jncuse]

The advantage the Big East has 4 year players. It's the best "4 year conference" which is the great equalizer.

It did a great job on its first round of expansion (Creighton, Butler and Xavier) are all very solid 4 year programs, 2 of which have had great success in the tourney.

 

[JoeySimz]

Thank god you are the minority.
Not just the minority but the overwhelming minority.
That is all I can say.

You're so sure. Just because you talk loudly or post constantly doesn't make you more right, or constitute a majority. Townie's point still stands and it's appropriate for many of your "it's on jb" style posts.