Numbers don't lie player development under this Assistant coaching staff has stagnated since 2013

[HRE Otto IV]

Porter, GMac was doing a great job building inroads with him but when every other program's head coach including Coach K and Calipari are coming to see you play and SU is only sending an assistant then you fall out of the race. Monte Morris was dying for an offer from us and came to our Elite camp on his own dime. JB passed on him. Like I said, you're post was inaccurate and to say our assistants are garbage and not very good recruiters is laughable.

LOL. So a kid who is currently in HS is proof that the last 5 recruiting classes have been poor because JB is chasing kids away? Oooook. :crazy: We have not been pulling in much talent lately. The assistants have all been here awhile. Where is the talent? Why are we not getting McD kids every year?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Trevon Duval - Class of 17. Once he moved to Texas he gave up which was stupid. That's the kind of PG that SU has been lacking for years!

Again my point is we have not been recruiting well, proof is in our roster. Why do people use FUTURE classes to blame JB as to why PAST classes are poor?

 

[Ward]

LOL. So a kid who is currently in HS is proof that the last 5 recruiting classes have been poor because JB is chasing kids away? Oooook. :crazy: We have not been pulling in much talent lately. The assistants have all been here awhile. Where is the talent? Why are we not getting McD kids every year?

You really have no idea what you're talking about. Your knowledge level on this is so low I'm not even going to bother to try and educate you anymore. Do yourself a favor and try getting a clue before you make anymore posts on this topic and further embarrass yourself.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

You really have no idea what you're talking about. Your knowledge level on this is so low I'm not even going to bother to try and educate you anymore. Do yourself a favor and try getting a clue before you make anymore posts on this topic and further embarrass yourself.

Stud recruiters should bring in studs. Who are the McD AA or Jordans that we are bringing in? GMac and Red have been here 5 years. Hop over 20. Go ahead and look at the data. Prove me wrong if it is so easy. A school like SU should be able to get a McD AA every other year. We DON'T!!! Yet you want to tell me we have 3 stud recruiters on staff? That is laughable.

Last 5 classes (This year's SRs up through next year's LOIs) list our recruits and who recruited them. Then ask yourself if that coach is good, above average, average, below average, or bad based on each's lists. If I am so wrong it should be easy to show I "have no clue."

 

[Ward]

Stud recruiters should bring in studs. Who are the McD AA or Jordans that we are bringing in? GMac and Red have been here 5 years. Hop over 20. Go ahead and look at the data. Prove me wrong if it is so easy. A school like SU should be able to get a McD AA every other year. We DON'T!!! Yet you want to tell me we have 3 stud recruiters on staff? That is laughable.

Last 5 classes (This year's SRs up through next year's LOIs) list our recruits and who recruited them. Then ask yourself if that coach is good, above average, average, below average, or bad based on each's lists. If I am so wrong it should be easy to show I "have no clue."

2011 - MCW and Rak both Jordan and McDonalds AA
2012 - Coleman McDonalds AA, Grant Jordan AA
2013 - Ennis - Jordan AA
2014 - McCullough - Jordan AA and probably would've been McDonalds but he didn't qualify
2015 - Malachi - McDonalds and Jordan AA

That's how easy it was to prove your first question/point wrong with just a quick list off the top of my head. I'm not going to bother wasting any more of my time addressing your other terrible arguments.

You're embarrassing yourself with these clueless H0T Takes.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Cooney improved a TON between his redshirt freshman season and his redshirt sophomore season. I think the disappointment comes from the OOC run he had that sophomore season turned out to be his peak, and we haven't seen a ton of obvious growth since then.

An old dog isn't going to learn a new trick like this, but I think it's fair to say that JB doesn't do a great job of developing bench depth. That may be why we have some of these supposed issues of not coaching players up.

 

[Townie72]

Cooney improved a TON between his redshirt freshman season and his redshirt sophomore season. I think the disappointment comes from the OOC run he had that sophomore season turned out to be his peak, and we haven't seen a ton of obvious growth since then.

An old dog isn't going to learn a new trick like this, but I think it's fair to say that JB doesn't do a great job of developing bench depth. That may be why we have some of these supposed issues of not coaching players up.

Same old complaints dressed up as something new. (e.g., Short bench).

Coaching is just one part of player development. There's also the player's ability ceiling. And there's the player's fundamental BB IQ.

I'm pretty well convinced that under any coach Cooney would not be able to drive to the basket and finish effectively. It requires a combination of skills he just doesn't have. Finishing requires athletic skill and concentration at the end.

 

[dasher]

Cooney has been sold to us by JB as the shooter like a Brady Heslip. He is not a shooter. He is a role player being asked to do too much. The kid isn't going to say no that is on the coaching staff. BJ Johnson never got the minutes to show he could do what Cooney did. The staff's lack of developing Cooney is on them. They have made him a star of the team the past 2 years when he wasn't a star player.

Roberson is why we even have a chance at the NCAAT. His Duke game was our best game of the year. The kid isn't consistent by year 3? Isn't that on the staff? This kids has taken more public vitriol the last month from JB than Cooney has in 5 years.

Chino had 1 year taken from him but still in 2 years as a Sophomore/Junior has played in 24 games and a total of 156 minutes. So thru 3 years of his career he has played fewer minutes than Cooney has in his last 6 games.

I like the kid but Chino is eating up a scholarship. If he was brought in to get Bryant he didn't get that done and if he was the reason we got Chukwu which is pure spin anyway you look at it. That kid better bring a lot more than his current expectations are. I don't think the staff has gotten enough criticism for Chino. The guy is eating up a precious scholarship when we only had 10 and is giving a thin team up front nothing.

Player development has been poor. Autry/McNamara what are their responsibilities? Hopkins is an elite recruiter he gets a pass by me not from KaiserUEO but from me.

Roberson is not an easy kid to coach and it's not because he is a bad kid. He isn't a bad kid. I don't know if we should have recruited him.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

2011 - MCW and Rak both Jordan and McDonalds AA
2012 - Coleman McDonalds AA, Grant Jordan AA
2013 - Ennis - Jordan AA
2014 - McCullough - Jordan AA and probably would've been McDonalds but he didn't qualify
2015 - Malachi - McDonalds and Jordan AA

That's how easy it was to prove your first question/point wrong with just a quick list off the top of my head. I'm not going to bother wasting any more of my time addressing your other terrible arguments.

You're embarrassing yourself with these clueless H0T Takes.

You didn't answer my question. FAIL

 

[bevosu]

About recruiting...

I found this paragraph interesting. It's in a NY Times article about Larry Brown and the SMU mess. (previously posted on this site by Chicago44's)

Brown, like most of his highly paid peers, stayed away from the recruiting, which can become an ethical bog. That was the job of his hungry young assistant coaches. And Ulric Maligi, who had deep roots in Dallas, was the first among equals.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/06/s...r-larry-brown-corruption.html?ref=sports&_r=1

 

[pulaski74]

Wait, what talent are we not developing? 3 stars don't count as talent. And our 4s and 5s seem to have developed just fine, jumping to the NBA and whatnot.

Maybe I'm not understanding OP's post. Kaleb Joseph is just a bust. That's happened at all points in the program's history. Not much you can do there. I'd put the blame on recruiting in his case, not development.

I just want to respond to this because kj is not dead yet. If I remember correctly and thats a big if, allen griffin was similair to kj and turned out to be a pretty good senior player, hand clapper, just saying he busted out this year but lets not bury him yet. Again not sure about my facts, just memories.

 

[pulaski74]

Stud recruiters should bring in studs. Who are the McD AA or Jordans that we are bringing in? GMac and Red have been here 5 years. Hop over 20. Go ahead and look at the data. Prove me wrong if it is so easy. A school like SU should be able to get a McD AA every other year. We DON'T!!! Yet you want to tell me we have 3 stud recruiters on staff? That is laughable.

Last 5 classes (This year's SRs up through next year's LOIs) list our recruits and who recruited them. Then ask yourself if that coach is good, above average, average, below average, or bad based on each's lists. If I am so wrong it should be easy to show I "have no clue."

Mcdonalds aa are similar to a student council vote for president, when you grow up and realise that you won't be upset. Coaches do not care who voted Joe athelete to the mickey d game, they care about what they see in a player, you my friend are a victim of media bs.

 

[bevosu]

Mcdonalds aa are similar to a student council vote for president, when you grow up and realise that you won't be upset. Coaches do not care who voted Joe athelete to the mickey d game, they care about what they see in a player, you my friend are a victim of media bs.

Wikipedia ...2013 McDonald's All American picks. No SU recruits, but most of those players have turned out to be pretty decent college players. Maybe we might have been able use a couple of them?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_McDonald's_All-American_Boys_Game

 

[br801]

Wikipedia ...2013 McDonald's All American picks. No SU recruits, but most of those players have turned out to be pretty decent college players. Maybe we might have been able use a couple of them?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_McDonald's_All-American_Boys_Game

And sometimes inclusion on that team is more a function of where you are headed for college than actual worthiness...

 

[hoopsupstate]

Cooney tries to shoot too much like GMAC. I think that's part of the problem. He needs to be Cooney, not GMAC. If you notice Cooney's follow through, it has changed. Forget the hold your hand in the air with your follow through. He's too stiff with his shooting. There's nothing soft about it anymore. His lean even looks like GMAC. Good coaching works with what the players strengths are and develops them, not try to make them look like you did when you played. GMAC made a lot of shots, but he also missed a lot too. Good shoots are smooth, with a quick release and follow through. Knee bend and balance are the key. Shot preparation starts way before you receive the ball. I don't even want to start with how high our players dribble the ball and never look before they put the ball down. I scream everytime our guards get an outlet and turn and dribble without looking first. They never have their heals facing the sideline. They have their backs facing mid court. BAsic fundamental basketball that is missing way to often.

 

[Brooky03]

I just want to respond to this because kj is not dead yet. If I remember correctly and thats a big if, allen griffin was similair to kj and turned out to be a pretty good senior player, hand clapper, just saying he busted out this year but lets not bury him yet. Again not sure about my facts, just memories.

I'm pretty sure KJ will be transferring.

 

[realorange]

"Stagnated" coach Autry being key to bringing G to Syracuse, must have been lucky I guess.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I honestly think this is the best staff Boeheim has ever had.

Gmac is a huge upgrade recruiting/coaching wise over Fine. Hopkins is always voted one of the top assistants.

People are overreacting. Everyone knew this was a rebuilding year at the beginning of the season. Look at the predictions everyone made.

I don't get why everyone is so upset with the record we have. We basically are where we thought we would be.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Mcdonalds aa are similar to a student council vote for president, when you grow up and realise that you won't be upset. Coaches do not care who voted Joe athelete to the mickey d game, they care about what they see in a player, you my friend are a victim of media bs.

Cool. The intellectual (and equally wrong) equivalent to the "stars don't matter" argument on the football board.

 

[Alsacs]

Cooney tries to shoot too much like GMAC. I think that's part of the problem. He needs to be Cooney, not GMAC. If you notice Cooney's follow through, it has changed. Forget the hold your hand in the air with your follow through. He's too stiff with his shooting. There's nothing soft about it anymore. His lean even looks like GMAC. Good coaching works with what the players strengths are and develops them, not try to make them look like you did when you played. GMAC made a lot of shots, but he also missed a lot too. Good shoots are smooth, with a quick release and follow through. Knee bend and balance are the key. Shot preparation starts way before you receive the ball. I don't even want to start with how high our players dribble the ball and never look before they put the ball down. I scream everytime our guards get an outlet and turn and dribble without looking first. They never have their heals facing the sideline. They have their backs facing mid court. BAsic fundamental basketball that is missing way to often.

Gerry could shoot. He just didn't have support in the backcourt which led to forced shots. When Gerry had Melo/Edelin we saw he was elite.

Gerry was a pure shooter who also played PG. If Cooney was GMac we would have been lucky. He is not GMac. He isn't as good a shooter as Gerry was, he doesn't have the PG skills GMac had, and he doesn't make the shots late in games GMac did.

Gerry was an alltimer. He made over 400 3's in his career. Cooney is a role player who the staff is treats better than he actually is. That is on the staff. As Lloyd Benson said in 1988 "I watched Gerry McNamara play sir, and Trevor Cooney is not Gerry McNamara."

 

[Alsacs]

I honestly think this is the best staff Boeheim has ever had.

Gmac is a huge upgrade recruiting/coaching wise over Fine. Hopkins is always voted one of the top assistants.

People are overreacting. Everyone knew this was a rebuilding year at the beginning of the season. Look at the predictions everyone made.

I don't get why everyone is so upset with the record we have. We basically are where we thought we would be.

Respect your opinions but disagree. I don't see our staff developing what we have brought in. I think Hopkins is an elite assistant. I don't know what Gerry does but he needs to develop our guards better as I found out he is the guards coach.

Hop coaches big men, Autry coaches wings, and GMac guards.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Respect your opinions but disagree. I don't see our staff developing what we have brought in. I think Hopkins is an elite assistant. I don't know what Gerry does but he needs to develop our guards better as I found out he is the guards coach.

Hop coaches big men, Autry coaches wings, and GMac guards.

You want to say Gerry isn't a great shooting coach, you might have a case. He never had the best shooting form himself. But every other area he's great in. His guys always play defense, better than he ever did I might add.

Maybe Gerry hasn't done enought to help Cooney with his inconsistency, but he's took G who is a forward and really developed his handle. Cooney's handle got a lot better to over the past 5 years. He was great with Ennis when he was here.

It's a fact that he/the staff lost confidence in Joseph. I don't even know who to put that on. Maybe Dasher could elaborate, but without Gerry, Matthew Moyer would not be coming here next year. That's a fact.

 

[Alsacs]

You want to say Gerry isn't a great shooting coach, you might have a case. He never had the best shooting form himself. But every other area he's great in. His guys always play defense, better than he ever did I might add.

Maybe Gerry hasn't done enought to help Cooney with his inconsistency, but he's took G who is a forward and really developed his handle. Cooney's handle got a lot better to over the past 5 years. He was great with Ennis when he was here.

It's a fact that he/the staff lost confidence in Joseph. I don't even know who to put that on. Maybe Dasher could elaborate, but without Gerry, Matthew Moyer would not be coming here next year. That's a fact.

How we have gone 4 years with only 2 decent guard "options" is on the coaching staff.

2013- MCW/Triche
2014- Ennis/Cooney
2015- Joseph/Cooney
2016- Gbinije/Cooney

We haven't developed a 3rd guard since we had Scoop/Triche/Waiter/MCW in 2012.

Our 3rd guard has been BELOW P5 level the last 4 years.
2013-Cooney
2014- Gbinije
2015- Patterson/Johnson
2016- Franklin/Joseph

That is on the coaching staff and the guy who works with guards. We haven't had 3 P5 level guards for 4 years HOW? I mean that is on the staff. One or two years okay but 4 years? Cooney should be that 3d guard he is being asked to be a lead guard and he isn't good enough to be a lead guard. The staff should have been able to bring in another option especially last year when we had open scholarships. We didn't pursue a 5th year guy last year that is on the coaching staff.

 

[Cusefan0307]

How we have gone 4 years with only 2 decent guard "options" is on the coaching staff.

2013- MCW/Triche
2014- Ennis/Cooney
2015- Joseph/Cooney
2016- Gbinije/Cooney

We haven't developed a 3rd guard since we had Scoop/Triche/Waiter/MCW in 2012.

Our 3rd guard has been BELOW P5 level the last 4 years.
2013-Cooney
2014- Gbinije
2015- Patterson/Johnson
2016- Franklin/Joseph

That is on the coaching staff and the guy who works with guards. We haven't had 3 P5 level guards for 4 years HOW? I mean that is on the staff. One or two years okay but 4 years? Cooney should be that 3d guard he is being asked to be a lead guard and he isn't good enough to be a lead guard. The staff should have been able to bring in another option especially last year when we had open scholarships. We didn't pursue a 5th year guy last year that is on the coaching staff.

This has been discussed at length before. I really think a bunch of the fans are overreacting. This is/was a rebuilding year.

JB does not use the Free Agency system. He never has. He's not going to start now.

I agree we could use another guard, but we flat out missed on Joseph.

He was supposed to be the third guard this year and didn't improve for whatever reason.

We just went through the entire NCAA fiasco, and it's difficult to recruit against that. Go to the UNC board. They're having issues getting players now to because of their NCAA issues.

If Malachi is still shooting 35-37% next year, you can complain about Gerry not developing players
If we aren't top 5 in the ACC next year you have a right to complain, but this year was never setup to be a 25-30 win season.

Respect your opinion, just think you need to look at the big picture beyond this season.

 

[Alsacs]

This has been discussed at length before. I really think a bunch of the fans are overreacting. This is/was a rebuilding year.

JB does not use the Free Agency system. He never has. He's not going to start now.

I agree we could use another guard, but we flat out missed on Joseph.

He was supposed to be the third guard this year and didn't improve for whatever reason.

We just went through the entire NCAA fiasco, and it's difficult to recruit against that. Go to the UNC board. They're having issues getting players now to because of their NCAA issues.

If Malachi is still shooting 35-37% next year, you can complain about Gerry not developing players
If we aren't top 5 in the ACC next year you have a right to complain, but this year was never setup to be a 25-30 win season.

Respect your opinion, just think you need to look at the big picture beyond this season.

Is Battle/Richardson/Howard and potential Joseph replacement going to be better than G/Cooney this year?