Oh goodies, now PedSt players are suing

[CIL]

If you look back at the threads when the Fine situation first broke you'll see a lot of us here calling for JB to be fired before knowing all the fact (compare that with the continued deification of Paterno by a huge part of the fan base), a substantial portion of our fans here saying that if things turned out to be true and SU covered up for Bernie for all those years that we should voluntarily shut the program down for a year or two and come back with a completely different staff and start over. We had posters here chastising the people worried about basketball. There was genuine concern that the University covered up the incident to protect Bernie.

I have no idea how much of that was real and how much of that was simply not wanting to look like the Penn State fan base, but the tenor here versus their message boards was night and day.

And if Bernie was raping boys at the 96 Final Four a year or so after he was caught showering with a ball boy and still allowed to travel with young boys in his hotel room...and then was caught by Hop raping a boy in the shower at Manley after he got a golden parachute retirement...and then allowed to continue to bring boys to SU basketball games and use his SU connections to rape more boys...then yes, I think a lot of us here would want all those games from 96 vacated. If JB were as depraved a human being as Joe Paterno he wouldn't deserve to retire with 900+ wins. There would be anger and hurt feelings, but I think we would ultimately come to accept some scholarship reductions and a four year post season ban. A $60,000,000 fine would be catastrophic to Syracuse though.

This might be wishful thinking, but I think this board in particular would ultimately shout down any apologists and anyone who claimed that we as fans and alumni were victims. Except for after bad losses, we're mostly a pretty reasonable, informed and intelligent group. Look at the PSU R and S boards and you'll see a collection of people that are incredibly ill informed as to when and where "due process" applies along with the other basic legal concepts surrounding their current situation. I'd also venture to say that very few, if any, of the posters here measure their self-worth by SU's success on the basketball court. You can see that a lot of the PSU internet community really does seem to believe that their life will be significantly worse if they football team sucks. They seem dismissive of the opinions of people from schools with lesser football traditions that are trying to engage them in conversation.

The part of me that's a Syracuse fan would be depressed over a winter without SU basketball. Hopefully that part of me would be completely shot down by the part of me that realized that the only victims are the boys whose lives were essentially stolen from them.

And here, if you feel like perusing, is the first major thread about Bernie:
http://syracusefan.com/threads/bernie-fine-is-someone-playing-a-joke.7905/

I think you overestimating our board. By a longshot.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I think you overestimating our board. By a longshot.

LOL thats putting it nicely. Everyone who claims they had no problem firing JB or shutting the program down is saying that because they knew it was a long shot at the time and wanted to feel above the frey somehow. Trust me if the SU basketball program had gotten anything close to those type of sanctions this board and the city of Syracuse would make Syria look like disney world.

 

[NKR1978]

I think you overestimating our board. By a longshot.

Hopefully neither of us will ever have to be proven right.

 

[NKR1978]

LOL thats putting it nicely. Everyone who claims they had no problem firing JB or shutting the program down is saying that because they knew it was a long shot at the time and wanted to feel above the frey somehow. Trust me if the SU basketball program had gotten anything close to those type of sanctions this board and the city of Syracuse would make Syria look like disney world.

And we would be as pathetic as PSU's fans are and deserve whatever criticism came our way.

 

[JeremyCuse]

And we would be as pathetic as PSU's fans are and deserve whatever criticism came our way.

Maybe or maybe we would be diehard fans of a program who we dont want to see buried for the next 30 years like SMU and the current players and coaches punished for one persons sick actions.

 

[rrlbees]

A little bit different in the type and forms of sanctions dont you think?

Longer yea but still loss scholies and a post season ban.

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[JeremyCuse]

Longer yea but still loss scholies and a post season ban.

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And while I was to young to really remember a lot about those sanctions from what I can remember the local opinion wasnt exactly accepting or that SU should have been hit with those penalties.

 

[NKR1978]

Maybe or maybe we would be diehard fans of a program who we dont want to see buried for the next 30 years like SMU and the current players and coaches punished for one persons sick actions.

I don't understand how the players and coaches are being punished. Coaches knew what they were getting into and players can leave without penalty.

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[RF2044]

And while I was to young to really remember a lot about those sanctions from what I can remember the local opinion wasnt exactly accepting or that SU should have been hit with those penalties.

You're entitled to your opinion, but that perspective is minsinformed in MY opinion.

The context of those penalties was absurd, given the number of charges originally alleged, the "sources" associated with those charges, what the NCAA actually charged us with eventually, and what the penalty was [i.e., the postseason ban]. Since 92, when we got hit with those sanctions, many other schools have been found guilty of equivalent violations and gotten slapped on the wrist comparatively, with no postseason ban--we just happened to be the first major hoops program in the cross-hairs, a highly visible media story, and the subject of a lengthy investigation, and thus were made an example of.

That people were dissatisfied with that outcome is a poor comparison to the way that the fanbase at Penn State are comporting themselves. Especially when most of our violations ended up being classified as "minor," centered around things like free pizzas from Cosmos and players giving recruits rides to the airport after recruiting trips instead of placing them in taxis.

 

[rrlbees]

Understood, but do you honestly think the culture at Syracuse University or on this board would be any different than at State College or PSU board?

All we have to do is go back to the initial Fine saga to compare and contrast the two. How many players came out to support Bernie? How many posters pledged undying support to JB, etc? How many people here believed Tomaselli and the other accusers? I dont think there is one poster here who was 100 percent accurate in any of the previously mentioned subplots of the Fine drama.

I think it is patently wrong to declare every PSU player a Sandusky supporter or selfish if they want their wins back. These are players who spent countless hours on practice fields, in the weight room, watching film, and playing in the games. It is not as if they gained an unfair advantage over their opponents by the horrible actions of a few men.

I believe it was GOSU who posted a while back something to the effect of being against seeing a program slashed and burnt to the ground. I agree. These kids (current and former PSU players) did nothing wrong. Do they deserve to have their bowls, wins, and achievements taken away from them? I am not so sure. They were not receiving benefits from a few boosters. They were not getting paid, not getting cars ala SMU. They were not a direct participant in the crimes committed.

I selfishly want Syracuse to benefit from the penalties bestowed upon PSU. That is the fan in me. Do we deserve it? Probably not. We were not cheated wins because of what happened at PSU.

NKR spelled it out perfectly, so I wont repeat all his points only to reiterate the magnitude of what went on over decades...and yet in the mid-late 2000's JS was still bringing young boys to practice, to games, to bowl trips and to the PedSt showers.



Those are all facts based on testimony. But somehow all these PedSt people never ask how all that can happen after all the rumors, whispers and eye witness events over many years. Just like Pedterno, their fans, boosters, former players and rogue BOT members want to turn a blind eye to facts and come off as the victims themselves.

This topic would be pretty much dead if they had been nailed for paying players. But this is the most heinous crime ever committed by a program and an institution. It deserves the harshest penalties ever.

BTW, what happens if some recent talk/rumors come to fruition and it is ultimately found that 2nd mile monies was used for illegal benefits?

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[Bayside44]

The whole thing is really bizarre. Paterno is DEAD. Vacating the wins, taking down the statue does nothing to a dead guy. They make the dead guy's old wife feel bad. Big deal. The guilty party is in jail, and anyone involved with a potential coverup is beign dealt with.

And somehow at the end of the day USC gets a 5 star running back. :noidea:

 

[orangehomer]

Can we get a tinfoil hat PSU board? Listen, what the happened there was disgusting and awful. Those kids will never be the same because of some abhorrent decisions made by a few select individuals.

However, I believe I speak for a few others here when i getting a wee bit tired of PSU land. I don't think our board would be much better should we have have the same thing happen here.

Do you think John Wallace would be pissed off having his final four appearance vacated? I think he would be. Would you all be up in arms if JW and co protested that decision? I'm sure there would be posts on our hoops board to the effect of "what happened off the court had nothing to do with the on the court results, it's not as if we were paying players."

What happened in State College was a travesty, but human emotions are not drawn in black an white. Rather they are drawn in a complex palate of human emotions - disappointment, anger, apathy, etc.

I think it is best to acknowledge, digest, and move on.

you know what i am tired of? people that say they are tired of this case and just want it to go away. talk about a cop out. you're tired of it, good for you stop reading about it. if you think this case is going away you are crazy, it's possible that the surface has just been scratched. why compare it to john wallace? it makes no sense, what a stupid thing to write. what the are you talking about.

 

[JeremyCuse]

You're entitled to your opinion, but that perspective is minsinformed in MY opinion.

The context of those penalties was absurd, given the number of charges originally alleged, the "sources" associated with those charges, what the NCAA actually charged us with eventually, and what the penalty was [i.e., the postseason ban]. Since 92, when we got hit with those sanctions, many other schools have been found guilty of equivalent violations and gotten slapped on the wrist comparatively, with no postseason ban--we just happened to be the first major hoops program in the cross-hairs, a highly visible media story, and the subject of a lengthy investigation, and thus were made an example of.

That people were dissatisfied with that outcome is a poor comparison to the way that the fanbase at Penn State are comporting themselves. Especially when most of our violations ended up being classified as "minor," centered around things like free pizzas from Cosmos and players giving recruits rides to the airport after recruiting trips instead of placing them in taxis.

I noted that the opinion was against the sanctions and people felt they werent fair your post is saying the same thing is it not?

 

[RF2044]

I noted that the opinion was against the sanctions and people felt they werent fair your post is saying the same thing is it not?

No, I'm saying that the disparity of relative magnitude between the two situations invalidates the comparison.

 

[JeremyCuse]

you know what i am tired of? people that say they are tired of this case and just want it to go away. talk about a cop out. you're tired of it, good for you stop reading about it. if you think this case is going away you are crazy, it's possible that the surface has just been scratched. why compare it to john wallace? it makes no sense, what a stupid thing to write. what the are you talking about.

This case will fade away just like every other big time news story, scandal, crime etc. These sick acts unfortunately happen to children everyday and it seems to be getting worse and worse. In a few months another program will be in trouble or some other big scandal will break and within a year or two people will have basically moved on. Hell a few years ago a Baylor teammate murdered another player and the coach tried to cover it up, whens the last time you heard about that? If CIL wants to move on from the PSU case thats his right how is it stupid?

 

[JeremyCuse]

No, I'm saying that the disparity of relative magnitude between the two situations invalidates the comparison.

I didnt make the original comparison CIL /Bees did. My point is either way people are going to be upset about sanctions when its "there" program, I dont get why some (not you) act like its some huge surprise or shock that PSU fans aren't thrilled that there program was basically decimated.

 

[NKR1978]

I didnt make the original comparison CIL /Bees did. My point is either way people are going to be upset about sanctions when its "there" program, I dont get why some (not you) act like its some huge surprise or shock that PSU fans aren't thrilled that there program was basically decimated.

Do you really think that the PSU community is simply "not thrilled" over the sanctions? Not thrilled implies some acceptance. Those people are now putting more blame on the NCAA versus the sick men who brought them to this spot, including Sandusky.

I don't think anyone would blame them for being "not thrilled."

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[JeremyCuse]

Do you really think that the PSU community is simply "not thrilled" over the sanctions? Not thrilled implies some acceptance. Those people are now putting more blame on the NCAA versus the sick men who brought them to this spot, including Sandusky.

I don't think anyone would blame them for being "not thrilled."

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There seems to be a whole spectrum of responses from PSU Fans, some accepting, some not thrilled, some upset, and some who are extremely upset and looking to take action. These types of fans are in every program not just PSU, it shouldnt be surprising at all.

 

[dollarbill44]

I am now convinced that the death penalty would have been the right course of action.

 

[NKR1978]

There seems to be a whole spectrum of responses from PSU Fans, some accepting, some not thrilled, some upset, and some who are extremely upset and looking to take action. These types of fans are in every program not just PSU, it shouldnt be surprising at all.

Just curious where you've seen PSU fans that accept what happened. I'm not doubting you, I just haven't seen any on the internet or tv, met any or know any. I'm sure they exist somewhere and hope that they're the silent majority.

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[longtimefan]

Longer yea but still loss scholies and a post season ban.

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Plus, the whole process had been dragged out by the NCAA. We lost 1, maybe 2, recruiting cycles waiting for the hammer to drop.

 

[longtimefan]

I think it is best to acknowledge, digest, and move on.

You forgot "atone".

 

[TheOrangeBuddha]

This case will fade away just like every other big time news story, scandal, crime etc. These sick acts unfortunately happen to children everyday and it seems to be getting worse and worse. In a few months another program will be in trouble or some other big scandal will break and within a year or two people will have basically moved on. Hell a few years ago a Baylor teammate murdered another player and the coach tried to cover it up, whens the last time you heard about that? If CIL wants to move on from the PSU case thats his right how is it stupid?

Just a point of clarification: the Baylor coach tried to cover up the improper payments, support and other activities of his program that he knew would come out during the investigation of the murder. In no way did he try to cover up the murder or protect the murderer.

 

[orangenirvana]

You absolutely nailed it, as I stated a few weeks ago if something similar happened at SU the same sh$t would be going on here.

You retracted your original statement (or at least redefined it) a few weeks ago. Are you now saying you're retracting your retraction?

If so, then you're still wrong.

 

[TheOrangeBuddha]

As to the general point of the discussion (how would SU fans react ...), to an extent haven't we answered that question in regards to how we treat the "vacated" lacrosse national championship (arguably the GREATEST lacrosse team ever to step foot on a field). Hell we (allegedly) buried the trophy with our esteemed former head coach. When we talk about the number of national championships our men's lacrosse team has won we ALWAYS include the "vacated" title. Further, I think the pennant or flag in the Dome includes the "vacated" title (someone can correct me on this if I am wrong).

I realize the discrepancy between co-signing on some loans for certain team members versus specifically looking the other way for a decade while more young boys are abused ...

Further, I am not in any way agreeing with or condoning the actions of certain PedState trustees or other alumni in the specific situation in State College ... just pointing out our reaction when presented with NCAA sanctions ...

Peace