One of the most underrated teams in SU History IMO

[Cusefan0307]

The problems with shooting too many 3s

1) It is hard to get to the foul line because 3pt shooters are rarely fouled.

2) It is hard to get the opponents best players in foul trouble.

3) Long misses lead to transition opportunities for opponents.
(Beating the zone down the court is the best way to defeat it)

4) Players who can't shoot 3's don't need to be guarded leading to 3 vs 5 offenses

5) 20 shot attempts is really based on 60 over all positions. I.E. no more than 1/3 of shot attempts should be from 3 IMO.

271 teams in D-1 take over a third of their shots from 3 and most of the teams below that are terrible offensively. 38 of the top 50 offensive teams in the country shoot more than a third of their shots from 3. The best offensive team that doesn't shoot a lot of 3's is duke and they are ranked 8th.

 

[Gabjon]

271 teams in D-1 take over a third of their shots from 3 and most of the teams below that are terrible offensively. 38 of the top 50 offensive teams in the country shoot more than a third of their shots from 3. The best offensive team that doesn't shoot a lot of 3's is duke and they are ranked 8th.

Most teams don't play 2 or 3 bigs.

Most teams don't play zone never mind 40 minutes of zone.

If you recruit to the zone than you need an offense that works with those players.

When we beat Duke in 2014 to become #1 we shot FOUR 3s for the whole game.

Men's Basketball vs Duke University on 2/1/2014 - Box Score - Syracuse University Athletics

The official box score of Men's Basketball vs Duke University on 2/1/2014

cuse.com

Shooting too many 3s is not good for our system.

What was the best SU team that shot more than 1/3 of their fg attempts from 3?

 

[OttoMets]

Honestly, if anyone should be furious, it would be Oklahoma in 2003 as a #1 having to go into a Lions Den in Albany to face a #3 seed and deal with a literal away game when they were the higher seed.

They got robbed...by Texas.

Oklahoma won the Big XII tournament, Texas pulled a Cuse and got upset in the first round. Both teams got a 1 seed, but Oklahoma got the punishment region and Texas got to stay in San Antonio (or Houston?). Very unusual.

Speaking of furious, I still think SU wins that honor for 2005 and Vermont in Worcester. And 1992 with UMass in Worcester is up there as well.

 

[OttoMets]

Anyway, the team and the crowd were hyped for UConn. Makes me nostalgic, that atmosphere, that tempo, the late great John Saunders on play by play. I wish I cared half as much about basketball 20(!!) years later.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Most teams don't play 2 or 3 bigs.

Most teams don't play zone never mind 40 minutes of zone.

If you recruit to the zone than you need an offense that works with those players.

When we beat Duke in 2014 to become #1 we shot FOUR 3s for the whole game.

Men's Basketball vs Duke University on 2/1/2014 - Box Score - Syracuse University Athletics

The official box score of Men's Basketball vs Duke University on 2/1/2014

cuse.com

Shooting too many 3s is not good for our system.

What was the best SU team that shot more than 1/3 of their fg attempts from 3?

The game has changed. Even from 5 years ago. You can't win without shooting anymore and that was that teams achilles heel and you can't compare attempts from then because everyone is shooting more from the outside. Anyway offense really hasn't been the problem this year if you look at the numbers.

Villanova is a school a lot of people here want to emulate and they have shot over 40% of their shots from 3 for the past 7 years and are regularly in the top 25 in offense.

 

[OttoMets]

Trust me, people on this board complained about the student section back then.

...

Bashing students is one of the immortal board topics.

That's another reason why this was so fun, UConn had had our number for years and the students showed up in huge numbers. Maybe the best single-game student turnout in the '90s, at least the biggest after they combined the two sections.

Then two weeks later the downstairs portion of the student section was empty for UCLA. Billy Packer mentioned it on the broadcast.

 

[HOFCeluck]

That and they were blown out by UConn the previous weekend. Went from a possible 1 seed to a 4 in the span of 5 days.

Yeah we lost to uconn pretty bad. And they weren’t particularly good. People forget that.

 

[Gabjon]

The game has changed. Even from 5 years ago. You can't win without shooting anymore and that was that teams achilles heel and you can't compare attempts from then because everyone is shooting more from the outside. Anyway offense really hasn't been the problem this year if you look at the numbers.

Villanova is a school a lot of people here want to emulate and they have shot over 40% of their shots from 3 for the past 7 years and are regularly in the top 25 in offense.

Villanova plays small 4 guards and a big. They play pressure man to man and should always shoot more 3s than us.

BTW I'm talking about total positions so foul shots generally will reduce the official total of 2pt fields goal attempts.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Villanova plays small 4 guards and a big. They play pressure man to man and should always shoot more 3s than us.

BTW I'm talking about total positions so foul shots generally will reduce the official total of 2pt fields goal attempts.

I get what you are saying, but there's zero correlation with shooting less 3's and being good at offense. People want a style that pretty much at every level of basketball is disappearing.

In 2010 only 148 teams shot a third of their shots or more as 3's. This year 271 teams are doing it. The teams not shooting from the outside are on the whole are for the most part ranked in the 200's or worse on offense.

We are also still getting the line at the highest rate in the ACC this year.

 

[Gabjon]

I get what you are saying, but there's zero correlation with shooting less 3's and being good at offense. People want a style that pretty much at every level of basketball is disappearing.

In 2010 only 148 teams shot a third of their shots or more as 3's. This year 271 teams are doing it. The teams not shooting from the outside are on the whole are for the most part ranked in the 200's or worse on offense.

We are also still getting the line at the highest rate in the ACC this year.

I understand the trend, but it doesn't work with our system.

Mike's team in Washington is shooting around a 1/3 of their shots from 3, less when you factor in the foul line.

We don't have to follow the trend...

 

[Cusefan0307]

I understand the trend, but it doesn't work with our system.

Mike's team in Washington is shooting around a 1/3 of their shots from 3, less when you factor in the foul line.

We don't have to follow the trend...

I believe you have to. If you can't shoot these days you won't be good.

And believe it or not we have a better offensive rating than them this year. The reason they are better than us is mostly related to defense. Also I can we can pretty much guarantee that UW's lack of shooting is what is going to have them closer to the bubble than they should be.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Except when it mattered in the Sweet 16 game, when we never got out of the zone and MSU lit us up with 3 after 3. Worst part about that loss was Slick Rick on the broadcast saying "get out of the zone Jimmy, get out of the zone!"

I think we roll and win going away if jimmy was willing to switch when MSU figured it out. We had a very strong m2m team that year for crusts sake - probably our best ever in the JB era. That’s why I can’t stand the whining and excuses about being stuck in Lansing. Coaching lost that game imo.

 

[stuckinbig11]

Etan was a beast.

 

[Gabjon]

I believe you have to. If you can't shoot these days you won't be good.

And believe it or not we have a better offensive rating than them this year. The reason they are better than us is mostly related to defense. Also I can we can pretty much guarantee that UW's lack of shooting is what is going to have them closer to the bubble than they should be.

We are 8-5! 1-5 vs P-5 level teams.

It is not about ratings its about winning.

UW's defend will win them a ton of games going forward, ours will not.

 

[Eric15]

I think we roll and win going away if jimmy was willing to switch when MSU figured it out. We had a very strong m2m team that year for crusts sake - probably our best ever in the JB era. That’s why I can’t stand the whining and excuses about being stuck in Lansing. Coaching lost that game imo.

Jason Hart in a zone was a crime against humanity. He was Gary Payton without the offense.

 

[kirbivore]

That team was really good. We got hosed having to play Michigan State in their home state in the Sweet 16.

SU kinda hosed themselves by losing in the BET quarters vs. G'town. Win that game and move up the S-curve enough to not be in MSU's region.

 

[creatorsgam]

At around the 12:50ish mark that’s me in the orange shirt and navy hat in front of Kueth Duany while he is standing on the scoring table.

That was my freshman year at Cortland. Made the trip up that night with a few buddies from my dorm that grew up big Syracuse fans.

We were sitting up in the 300’s and saw the students getting ready to rush the court. One of the guys suggested we join in. Easy decision, had plenty of time so flew down to the floor. It was awesome.

Watching Sportscenter that night the shot of Kueth was used in the in the opening as well as in the Top-10 (pretty sure it was #1).

That was a damn fun night.

 

[HOFCeluck]

At around the 12:50ish mark that’s me in the orange shirt and navy hat in front of Kueth Duany while he is standing on the scoring table.

That was my freshman year at Cortland. Made the trip up that night with a few buddies from my dorm that grew up big Syracuse fans.

We were sitting up in the 300’s and saw the students getting ready to rush the court. One of the guys suggested we join in. Easy decision, had plenty of time so flew down to the floor. It was awesome.

Watching Sportscenter that night the shot of Kueth was used in the in the opening as well as in the Top-10 (pretty sure it was #1).

That was a damn fun night.

My freshman year too. The days when not only were games appointment viewing but the sportscenter that night And the morning after as well.

 

[djorange1989]

We are 8-5! 1-5 vs P-5 level teams.

It is not about ratings its about winning.

UW's defend will win them a ton of games going forward, ours will not.

indeed, and all 5 losses were non-competitive, unless you count being in it at halftime and then getting hammered in the second half.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We are 8-5! 1-5 vs P-5 level teams.

It is not about ratings its about winning.

UW's defend will win them a ton of games going forward, ours will not.

No split, but I can assure you if we had a team that couldn’t shoot and could play D we wouldn’t be very good either. Just like we were two years ago.

 

[FrancoPizza]

That team was really good. We got hosed having to play Michigan State in their home state in the Sweet 16.

Hosed? We were up 14 in the 2nd half and had the game in hand. If JB wasn't deer in the headlights and remembered we had a very good change-up D we win the game easily. Up 14 and they end the game on a 28-0 run? That's a colossal failure to make any adjustment whatosever. Yes it was perhaps in my top 5 most frustrating memories if you can't tell.

 

[Gabjon]

No split, but I can assure you if we had a team that couldn’t shoot and could play D we wouldn’t be very good either. Just like we were two years ago.

I'm not arguing that we shouldn't be able to shoot 3s, I am arguing for a balanced offense that takes advantage of the size we need to play the defense that we play.

In basketball a team cannot run an offense that requires one type of player and a defense that requires another.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Hosed? We were up 14 in the 2nd half and had the game in hand. If JB wasn't deer in the headlights and remembered we had a very good change-up D we win the game easily. Up 14 and they end the game on a 28-0 run? That's a colossal failure to make any adjustment whatosever. Yes that game was perhaps in my top 5 most frustrating memories if you can't tell.

Meh we stopped scoring too. Offense was smothered.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I'm not arguing that we shouldn't be able to shoot 3s, I am arguing for a balanced offense that takes advantage of the size we need to play the defense that we play.

In basketball a team cannot run an offense that requires one type of player and a defense that requires another.

We need more Tyler Lydon types. Get someone like that to play the 4 and a rim protecting center and we will be fine. The days of playing Rick Jackson and Arinze Onuaku together are over.

 

[Gabjon]

Hosed? We were up 14 in the 2nd half and had the game in hand. If JB wasn't deer in the headlights and remembered we had a very good change-up D we win the game easily. Up 14 and they end the game on a 28-0 run? That's a colossal failure to make any adjustment whatosever. Yes it was perhaps in my top 5 most frustrating memories if you can't tell.

I believe we were in foul trouble and that is why he didn't go man to man, but I have not fact checked my memory