One or the Other... | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

One or the Other...

Alsacs said:
The program left in January 2013 was in a way better than position than it was in December 2008. 25-25 is the definition of mediocrity but that is significantly better than 10-37.

SS hit the jackpot when he got the HC job after DM left. He wasn't on the radar of any P5 teams to become a HC and he got a P5 job. I would agree the QB was not stocked when DM left but Hunt is atleast somebody who looks like he can play.

I can say that injuries were tough last year and hurt the team. However, what excuse do we have for the Villanova game which was a major red flag last year. Our team was outplayed by Villanova. Hunt was incredibly stupid in that game and was ejected but we should have been able to win that game without Hunt. Our D was shredded by Nova's QB.

Nobody in their right mind would lay 15 years of frustration on SS. However, it is reasonable to question his coaching when we have been blown out more times in 2 years than we did the previous 4 years and our offense has looked bad for 2 years against P5 competition.

The bar for this staff getting a 4th year shouldn't be well we can't go 2-10 that is BS. The bar should be much higher and I am not saying you said can't go 2-10.
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I have read your take on this many times. I don't think we are seeing thing all that differently other than how the program was left. There is no arguing it was in better shape for SS than when DM took it over but that does not mean it was in great or even good shape. DM had pieces that he utilized on the offensive side well and being offensive minded that makes sense. There were not pieces in place from the recruiting stand point to maintain what DM did particularly in the QB spot. This is why I don't feel as though SS hit the jackpot. Defensively we have been good and that makes sense since it was SS recruiting the guys on that side and I don't think it has fallen off.

My point still stands that in the shape SS picked up the program, although better than what DM got , was not good enough to evaluate him. 4 years is a reasonable time frame. How this year goes will factor but I don't know if it should determine things going forward
 
Alsacs said:
Honest question do you feel the need or urge to respond to every one of my posts? College Football circa 2013 is a game that favors the offense. McDonald was a bad coach but we won games in 2013 on using the strength of the team in having a power run game. I don't care if the cupboard was stock full or not the program SS was hired to be the HC was not in rebuild mode. There was talent on the roster and while I would say there were no proven QBs the program wasn't in a state of shock. It has gone .500 for four years after being a laughing stock. The idea we as a fanbase thought we were going to take one step back to take two steps forward that is not accurate and if your honest you would admit that.
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No. Only the ones I disagree with. I give you likes for ones I agree with. This is how the board works.

Not caring if the cupboard is stocked or not AND saying we should have continued our rise strikes me as inherently unfair/biased.

Looking back - we should have thought that exactly - 1 step back to 2 fwd. in fact I'm sure some here did call that (especially since we were without a proven starting QB and a new system).
 
donniesyracuse said:
I don't recall Marrone losing a game in which he was favored. Refresh my memory.
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Wasn't my point.

Under Marrone we played teams above us tight (far less blowouts). But played teams below us tight:

2011
W vs RI, 21-14
W vs Toledo, 33-30
W vs Tulane, 37-34

2012
W vs Stony Brook, 28-17
L vs Rutgers, 15-23

Under Shafer we've played teams above us poorly (2013 was blowout city). But played teams below us like we should (except Villanova*):

2013
W vs Wagner, 54-0
W vs Tulane, 52-17

2014
W vs Nova, 27-26
W vs Central Mich, 40-3

As stated in another thread, saying we were blown out more under Shafer is def true. If you want to give props to Marrone for keeping us close vs better opponents (and HUGE wins vs WVU and Louisville) - then we need to acknowledge that his teams played down to the competition too (not a hallmark of an elite game planner).
 
Alsacs said:
We were favored at home vs. Maryland last year. In 2013 the coaching staff embraced what it had and abandoned what they wanted to do and guess what we were lucky to win some games. In 2014 we didn't use our talent correctly on offense. There is no reason the staff should have been as poor as it was and that falls on the HC. He owned it and replaced the OC well guess what this year you gotta do more than just not go 2-10 to get a 4th year.
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We'll see. I think 2-10 is a low bar. I think 4 with an improved offense gets him his 4th year. 6+ gets him a 2 year extension.
 
TheCusian said:
2012

L vs Rutgers, 15-23
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No way was Syracuse favored in that game. In our minds, Rutgers might have been inferior, but that was not the general public's perception. If I had to guess, I would say Rutgers could have been favored by close to a touchdown. I agree that Marrone teams did play down to the competition in some games, but Rutgers 2012 is not an example of that.
 
SUfanNC said:
I have read your take on this many times. I don't think we are seeing thing all that differently other than how the program was left. There is no arguing it was in better shape for SS than when DM took it over but that does not mean it was in great or even good shape. DM had pieces that he utilized on the offensive side well and being offensive minded that makes sense. There were not pieces in place from the recruiting stand point to maintain what DM did particularly in the QB spot. This is why I don't feel as though SS hit the jackpot. Defensively we have been good and that makes sense since it was SS recruiting the guys on that side and I don't think it has fallen off.

My point still stands that in the shape SS picked up the program, although better than what DM got , was not good enough to evaluate him. 4 years is a reasonable time frame. How this year goes will factor but I don't know if it should determine things going forward
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I can agree to disagree. Your position is one that I may not agree with, but I am not all knowing and respect differences on opinion. I will say this though if program SS picked up was not good enough to evaluate him on then the AD was wrong not to conduct a national search even late in the game in January 2013.
 
OrangePA said:
I happened to find really good seats to that Rutgers game.

I recall feeling that the Scarlet Knights were just more physical than we were that day - that they were the better team.
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Agreed that Rutgers defense was senior laden and were more physical. If we played them later in the season I think it would have been a different game.
 
orange79 said:
Too bad you don't get the football
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Creative reply.

It really shows how much you know about football when you turn to being a smart a##

Care to offer anything like the other posters or are you just going to reply another smart reply?
 
As for scheduling LSU, I just hope they play to win the game and not play to lose the game. Bring out some trick plays, they have absolutely nothing to lose... And hey we could catch them napping after a long flight up to a place where even there coaches could not find on a map... Lol
 
donniesyracuse said:
No way was Syracuse favored in that game. In our minds, Rutgers might have been inferior, but that was not the general public's perception. If I had to guess, I would say Rutgers could have been favored by close to a touchdown. I agree that Marrone teams did play down to the competition in some games, but Rutgers 2012 is not an example of that.
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Man enough to admit when I'm wrong. But that Rutgers team did lose to Kent State...
 
dollarbill44 said:
It looks to me that you want validation from this board to quit being a fan. If you can't get excited, why bother? Find something else to do that excites you. Life is too short to spend your free time on something that saps passion.
Maybe you're just having the summer blahs and you will get the excitement back in August. If not, I would recommend searching for a new hobby. I'm not being snarky, either. I believe this.
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I'm not going to quit being a fan as long as that degree hangs from my wall. Don't you think it's hard to get excited a bit after a 3-9 season? I mean 3-9 sucks does is not. I'm still a huge fan of the team, I think most posters know that. But the buzz isn't there unfortunately, it's more of a Fear of last season.
 
CanadianSU said:
I'm not going to quit being a fan as long as that degree hangs from my wall. Don't you think it's hard to get excited a bit after a 3-9 season? I mean 3-9 sucks does is not. I'm still a huge fan of the team, I think most posters know that. But the buzz isn't there unfortunately.
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I don't find it hard at all, honestly. Flush it and move on.
 
CanadianSU said:
Creative reply.

It really shows how much you know about football when you turn to being a smart a##

Care to offer anything like the other posters or are you just going to reply another smart reply?
Expand...
OK, how's this Mr. Ex-Fan? And just so you know, I wear my smart-a$$ badge proudly. :D

For someone who's willing to give up being a fan, you shouldn't question my football knowledge, especially after some of your posts in this thread.

You can question and criticize the staff. You can criticize the game-planning. You can criticize the play-calling. All are fair game, and all legitimate questions. But to question the heart of last year's team shows me you weren't paying attention. Didn't play like they wanted to win????? Those kids played 60 minutes, and not a second less.

On a related topic - "As for scheduling LSU, I just hope they play to win the game and not play to lose the game." I don't even know what to say about this.

You 'wana win'? We all want to win. Duh. But the best way to show the board you really don't care is to give the ultimatum "If Shafer does not make a Bowl this year that is absolutely it for this fan." That's not an option for a real fan. It's just not.
 
CanadianSU said:
I'm not going to quit being a fan as long as that degree hangs from my wall. Don't you think it's hard to get excited a bit after a 3-9 season? I mean 3-9 sucks does is not. I'm still a huge fan of the team, I think most posters know that. But the buzz isn't there unfortunately, it's more of a Fear of last season.
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I do it every year. Cubs fan since 1975.
 
orange79 said:
OK, how's this Mr. Ex-Fan? And just so you know, I wear my smart-a$$ badge proudly. :D

For someone who's willing to give up being a fan, you shouldn't question my football knowledge, especially after some of your posts in this thread.

You can question and criticize the staff. You can criticize the game-planning. You can criticize the play-calling. All are fair game, and all legitimate questions. But to question the heart of last year's team shows me you weren't paying attention. Didn't play like they wanted to win????? Those kids played 60 minutes, and not a second less.

On a related topic - "As for scheduling LSU, I just hope they play to win the game and not play to lose the game." I don't even know what to say about this.

You 'wana win'? We all want to win. Duh. But the best way to show the board you really don't care is to give the ultimatum "If Shafer does not make a Bowl this year that is absolutely it for this fan." That's not an option for a real fan. It's just not.
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I'm not questioning your football knowledge I believe your questioning mine lol. Pretty clear. Anyways, this is stupid.

There are game plans in which you play to win and you play to not get blown out. The screen passes called in the ND game and for the most part all year is extremely strong conservative football. Chuck the ball down the field, hopefully Lester has a game plan in which he trusts his guys. It's not the players I have a beef with, that statement is on the coaches and even yourself that this is "fair game".

It's absolutely it for Shafer for me if he doesn't get a bowl this year, that's my opinion. If that does happen I'll still support the next coach obviously but it's poorly worded in my OP. At another 3-9, he is gone for me. People could disagree with that...
 
TheCusian said:
I don't find it hard at all, honestly. Flush it and move on.
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But that Texas Bowl win was a little too sweet to just move on from no?

We had a lot of momentum going into last season it seemed. This year not really, then again it's probably irrelevant.
 
tep624 said:
And every year it's just as dumb as it was the prior year.
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Not really.

If Shafer doesn't get to 5-7 do you bring him back with a new AD?

It's a good question. Far from a dumb one.
 
CanadianSU said:
But that Texas Bowl win was a little too sweet to just move on from no? We had a lot of momentum going into last season it seemed. This year not really, then again it's probably irrelevant.
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Yep. Off seasons after winning seasons are sweeter than losing ones. Doesn't mean I'm still dwelling on what happened 8 months ago. We're closer to this season than we are to last.
 
CanadianSU said:
Not really.

If Shafer doesn't get to 5-7 do you bring him back with a new AD?

It's a good question. Far from a dumb one.
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Not talking about the question. Talking about the public proclamation about not following the program if this, or that doesn't happen. Nobody cares.
 
tep624 said:
Not talking about the question. Talking about the public proclamation about not following the program if this, or that doesn't happen. Nobody cares.
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My OP is worded poorly, I'll always follow and cheer on the program. That wasn't the message. The question was the message really.
 
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