One thing was abundantly clear last night…

[cuseinseattle]

I’ve been soft on Joe this year, I’ve become more sympathetic to his situation and legacy. He had no business playing at the top of the zone for four years and I that had been a major issue, that said he rebound’s better than our current forwards which is outright disgusting.

You have been soft on him. You used to call me drunk complaining about him. Not any more. You've just accepted the whole situation. Sad.

 

[CardiacCuse]

I agree, talent is the main issue.

Im an outlier here but I wonder if last years team could have been a lot better playing man like too 25 goos playing m2m. That offense was really good but we couldnt stop anyone because the zone personnel was horrendous.

it takes years to learn together ...how to cover for your teammates, where to move, etc...

these freshman are good players but they werent ever going to come in as a big group and allow the team to have a great zone...even with 5 mcd all americans...it wouldnt happen.

you see how JB always talks about how upper classmen are better etc...

so JB favors the older players and keeping players around as long as possible...so his defense can work...

but he needs the one and done type athletes to make the d work..not girard and jesse

but those athletes arent staying for 3/4 years to make it hum.

so he has lesser athletes now (partly not of his choosing, as well)...but they cant execute what is needed of them

he isnt going to get 4 year studs that will make the zone work. it is simply not going to happen ever again. if theyre good enough they will leave earlier, if they arent good enough, they arent good enough.

can he adjust? can he reinvent himself?

is he just being stubborn? or is he doing the only thing he can to hold on as long as possible? is keeping everything as is without changing the only thing he is capable of or is this just refusal to make changes that he is capable of?

is it that his system being in place and taking out all the guesswork from year to year...is that all that's allowing him to be "the coach" ?

the team needs big picture adjustments...huge innovations...and an abandoment of the systems JB has kept in place for decades. it could still work...if the planets align...but why hold out for that random occurance? it's time for innovation. innovation that will enable consistent winning.

if JB wants to stay, I think he has to either do that ...or realize that he wont be a winner anymore...and it will get a lot uglier from here...

 

[FrancoPizza]

it takes years to learn together ...how to cover for your teammates, where to move, etc...

these freshman are good players but they werent ever going to come in as a big group and allow the team to have a great zone...even with 5 mcd all americans...it wouldnt happen.

you see how JB always talks about how upper classmen are better etc...

so JB favors the older players and keeping players around as long as possible...so his defense can work...

but he needs the one and done type athletes to make the d work..not girard and jesse

but those athletes arent staying for 3/4 years to make it hum.

so he has lesser athletes now (partly not of his choosing, as well)...but they cant execute what is needed of them

he isnt going to get 4 year studs that will make the zone work. it is simply not going to happen ever again. if theyre good enough they will leave earlier, if they arent good enough, they arent good enough.

can he adjust? can he reinvent himself?

is he just being stubborn? or is he doing the only thing he can to hold on as long as possible? is keeping everything as is without changing the only thing he is capable of or is this just refusal to make changes that he is capable of?

is it that his system being in place and taking out all the guesswork from year to year...is that all that's allowing him to be "the coach" ?

the team needs big picture adjustments...huge innovations...and an abandoment of the systems JB has kept in place for decades. it could still work...if the planets align...but why hold out for that random occurance? it's time for innovation. innovation that will enable consistent winning.

if JB wants to stay, I think he has to either do that ...or realize that he wont be a winner anymore...and it will get a lot uglier from here...

Can an 80-year-old grandma learn how to parallel park? Or send a photo DM?

 

[Orangezoo]

it takes years to learn together ...how to cover for your teammates, where to move, etc...

these freshman are good players but they werent ever going to come in as a big group and allow the team to have a great zone...even with 5 mcd all americans...it wouldnt happen.

you see how JB always talks about how upper classmen are better etc...

so JB favors the older players and keeping players around as long as possible...so his defense can work...

but he needs the one and done type athletes to make the d work..not girard and jesse

but those athletes arent staying for 3/4 years to make it hum.

so he has lesser athletes now (partly not of his choosing, as well)...but they cant execute what is needed of them

he isnt going to get 4 year studs that will make the zone work. it is simply not going to happen ever again. if theyre good enough they will leave earlier, if they arent good enough, they arent good enough.

can he adjust? can he reinvent himself?

is he just being stubborn? or is he doing the only thing he can to hold on as long as possible? is keeping everything as is without changing the only thing he is capable of or is this just refusal to make changes that he is capable of?

is it that his system being in place and taking out all the guesswork from year to year...is that all that's allowing him to be "the coach" ?

the team needs big picture adjustments...huge innovations...and an abandoment of the systems JB has kept in place for decades. it could still work...if the planets align...but why hold out for that random occurance? it's time for innovation. innovation that will enable consistent winning.

if JB wants to stay, I think he has to either do that ...or realize that he wont be a winner anymore...and it will get a lot uglier from here...

We just need to go all in to get a coach that is the best fit for the current landscape to rake in more talent and milk this new system to our advantage for as long as we can.

Make it must watch TV and a energized fast past show on the court and sell this thing as the biggest college hoops show in the country in front of rabid crowds every night. We had that in the past... just need a modern version of it now.

 

[Chip]

I think it's abundantly clear that we sold our souls to beat ranked NC State teams in the Dome this season.

Two sports, two big wins, two high points of the season, two collapses right after.

 

[Fat tire 13]

Big picture, all this is related to over/under achieving and "punching above your weight"

Break it into two categories - talent and coaching.

Talent -
-Are we getting players that are ultimately more talented than the HS rankings?
-Are we finding undervalued players in the portal?
-Are players improving over their time here?

Most recently, the only player that I can think of that meets that criteria is Jesse, and probably Buddy. You could count people like Hughes/Gbinije but they were a long time ago. On the flip side players like Jalen Carey and Benny are underperforming big time.

Coaching
-Is the game plan adding or subtracting value?
-This could be lineups or schemes

When the zone was humming with the right personnel, the collective group was better than the individual. Now the lack of flexibility on defense, and long term lack of offensive creativity has flipped this to a negative as well

I now believe an elite coach could get 4-5 more wins out of this squad, but that's the ceiling with the talent issue

 

[Scooch]

these freshman are good players

Objection, your honor. Facts not in evidence.

Seriously, aside from Mintz, I see nothing in these freshmen that I haven't seen in a dozen freshman that have left the program in the last few years.

They're fine. They could be good players in a couple years.

 

[tbonezone]

Can an 80-year-old grandma learn how to parallel park?

point one. jim's rascal has a back up cam.
two: i believe a good coach could have assembled these players into a tournament caliber team.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Objection, your honor. Facts not in evidence.

Seriously, aside from Mintz, I see nothing in these freshmen that I haven't seen in a dozen freshman that have left the program in the last few years.

They're fine. They could be good players in a couple years.

lol...I mean...yeah...but they are talented...all of them have at least flashed a big game or two this season but clearly not on any draft radars yet

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I believe it, I know he says a lot of things but there’s no reason to blatantly lie about it. His presser was very honest and he was defeated, think there were a lot of truths that came out that normally don’t.

He blatantly lied about best class ever and definite NCAA team. He can try to walk this back, but he lied. If he didn’t lie, then his ability to judge talent has left him.

 

[SU91]

Line extension has hurt the zone. The gaps are bigger and guys need to cover more space. This was discussed the last time the line was extended.

Yeah, don’t know if this has been discussed as much, but the RANGE of shooters has increased SO much, I just shake my head sometimes with the shots our opponents hit. In rhythm 3 pointers from like 29-30 ft out. THAT’S really hard to defend in a zone.

 

[Otto'd]

Yeah, don’t know if this has been discussed as much, but the RANGE of shooters has increased SO much, I just shake my head sometimes with the shots our opponents hit. In rhythm 3 pointers from like 29-30 ft out. THAT’S really hard to defend in a zone.

I watched a 95 game with moten and Wallace today to clear my brain of the last couple weeks. Man how the game has changed there was so much less spacing , there were 8 players in the paint routinely. We played more man than zone . It was really glaring how much the game has changed. The 3 ball wasn’t featured even with a closer line. I think there is merit to moving the line out hurting the zone. One thing is totally obvious. Playing zone in the current era with the premium on spacing and especially the jaw dropping quality of even mediocre players hitting from 28 feet these days simply makes playing full time zone a suicide mission.

Our talent level is way down , but even it was twice as good I think the zone is a bad idea as an identity.

It’s over

 

[Otto'd]

He blatantly lied about best class ever and definite NCAA team. He can try to walk this back, but he lied. If he didn’t lie, then his ability to judge talent has left him.

He has a lot “ you must pick one or the other, Jim” quotes these days . Unfortunately media doesn’t touch him on it

 

[rrlbees]

He blatantly lied about best class ever and definite NCAA team. He can try to walk this back, but he lied. If he didn’t lie, then his ability to judge talent has left him.

I have no doubt it was a confidence builder directed at the players.

 

[Cuse181]

He blatantly lied about best class ever and definite NCAA team. He can try to walk this back, but he lied. If he didn’t lie, then his ability to judge talent has left him.

“Blatantly Lied” is a bit of a strong take no? You’re claiming he knew this team (whose players he’d only seen for a couple weeks by the time of that press conference) was bad and had no chance at the tournament. I find that hard to believe.

 

[NineOneSeven]

We still had around 30k against Duke. Again, people who don't think that matters or that the dome is an advantage (with the RIGHT coach and roster) are crazy. The dome is an amazing venue in college basketball. It's an incredible advantage we have.

 

[miamicuse]

We still had around 30k against Duke. Again, people who don't think that matters or that the dome is an advantage (with the RIGHT coach and roster) are crazy. The dome is an amazing venue in college basketball. It's an incredible advantage we have.

It IS an advantage if there is a big crowd cheering.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Yes, the players are different. I didn't think it was important to point that out. What boeheim is trying to do isn't different

Ten years ago teams didn't have a bunch of guys who could shoot 35%

They actually did. They just didn’t know it

 

[Scooch]

I have no doubt it was a confidence builder directed at the players.

Well... then that worked out well, didn't it?

 

[donniesyracuse]

I have no doubt it was a confidence builder directed at the players.

So he said it, but didn’t mean it?

 

[Millhouse]

They actually did. They just didn’t know it

Larry bird averaged 1.9 3pa per game for his NBA career. Mintz averages 2.1 this year

It took so long for sports to realize that three pointers, throwing the ball, not punting, and not making outs on purpose is good

 

[OrangeDW]

They actually did. They just didn’t know it

I was sitting George Zidek’s lumbering ass on the bench for JR Henderson and playing “small ball” and shooting nothing but 3’s and dunks on Coach K for Sega 28 years ago.

Glad these meatheads finally caught up.

 

[Millhouse]

I was sitting George Zidek’s lumbering ass on the bench for JR Henderson and playing “small ball” and shooting nothing but 3’s and dunks on Coach K for Sega 28 years ago.

Glad these meatheads finally caught up.

I'm surprised they didn't program a small ball failure override like they did in Madden

 

[BigNastyJon]

Larry bird averaged 1.9 3pa per game for his NBA career. Mintz averages 2.1 this year

It took so long for sports to realize that three pointers, throwing the ball, not punting, and not making outs on purpose is good

How does one make out on accident? Drunken mistake?

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

It's amazing how quickly it all breaks once the average opponent hits some threshold of shooting ability and awareness

We can take as many as we want and hit 35%? Great! Bombs away

You can find a couple other years where teams shoot the same % but they took way fewer shots.

Ten years ago we won 30 games and opponents shot 28% from 3.

Same zone, very different landscape.

Somewhere, Darius Lane is lining up a 35 footer and saying "I told y'all so"