Only 1 team has more talent than us | Syracusefan.com

Only 1 team has more talent than us

IthacaMatt

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and that's Kentucky, but they don't have a true center. They do have Anthony Davis, who may wind up being what Kevin Garnett might have looked like if he ever went to college.

But aside from Kentucky, we have more talent this season than anyone.

#1 North Carolina - John Henson and Ty Zeller both start. That's one big white guy too many. They are workmanlike and efficient, but they lack athleticism and don't scare me a bit. Harrison Barnes is a good forward, and McAdoo will be good in time. Dexter Strickland and Kendall Marshall don't seem like a backcourt that is good enough to win a national championship, and in college, backcourts still rule.

Ohio State is mostly Sullinger and Buford and who are the rest of these guys ?

UConn at #4 is a joke. Last year's "Champions" were a 9-9 Big East squad that got lucky and hit an 11 game winning streak when they stopped calling traveling on Kemba Walker in the Big East tournament. Take away their best player, and what do you have ? A mediocre team, with a couple guards who could have played for UMass 20 years ago.

But I would never bet against Jim Calhoun in a single elimination game. I do hope they get that title vacated for cheating, though. Them having 3 titles instead of only 2 is starting to rub my ass. We better make a goddam Final Four again pretty soon.
 

XCUSE_ME

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Man,

I like Syracuse a lot but they have not proved anything yet. There is no go to scorer, no balanced scoring and no leader "take charge guy" YET. I hope we see someone step up soon. Joseph is supposed to the next Wes Johnson, I hope he is healthy enough to show this.

I am concerned that so far we have not shown consistency (scoring, rebounding, assists) against the cup cakes to warrant any positive feelings against stronger teams. I will admit I have not seen Syracuse play yet but heard they play good defense. I hope Fab, Xmas, Fair, Baye and Joseph each average 7 boards a game (who led in rebounds tonight - Triche).

Unless people start scoring and have a better shooting percentage overall (7 for 21 3 pt, 61% FTs is not great), I am concern we may be subject to an upset. I would rather start lower in the polls and work our way up than start high lose 2-3 in a row and fall way down in the polls.

Once Joseph, Jardine, Waiters, Triche, Fair and Southland (any three of these five) begin to show consistency in scoring, I will feel better. Until then, I am wary and do not see how we are even better than 1/4 the teams in the Big East (although I believe we are already better than 90% of the teams in the ACC).
 

zls44

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UConn at #4 is a joke. Last year's "Champions" were a 9-9 Big East squad that got lucky and hit an 11 game winning streak when they stopped calling traveling on Kemba Walker in the Big East tournament. Take away their best player, and what do you have ? A mediocre team, with a couple guards who could have played for UMass 20 years ago.

The idea that SU is deeper than UConn is patently ridiculous. Even? I could see that. Clearly deeper? Come on.

Lamb was far and away the best player at the U-19s. Boatright is supposed to be good, but for objectivity, I'll lean MCW there.

SU can put together a lot of different frontcourt combos, but that doesn't diminish the reality that Oriakhi and Drummond are better than anyone SU has up front. Melo should be really good. He's improved over the summer. But the other two are just better players.

FFS, Tyler Olander dominated that front line. And I think he might be mentally ill. Each succesful step without falling over is a major victory for him, and he still owned SU in the Big East Tournament. Think about that.
 

zls44

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I do agree that UNC is putting all their eggs into one basket in the backcourt. We will find out a lot about OSU with their nonconference schedule. Florida, Duke, and a trip to the Phog (psst, don't tell anyone, Kansas might stink, but it's still a hell of a challenge). Oof.
 

Zelda Zonk

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You're arguing about what's "on paper." Team Performance is much more than that. You're also assessing who they are NOW, which has little to do with how they finish the year, as you do factor with UConn last year. I wouldn't call their run "lucky." They earned all of those wins and they played the best down that 'magical' stretch. You want to win a NC, you'd take 11 wins in a row over McD players at every position.

When we won in 2003, we had two superstars. Carmelo, and 1/2 stars Warrick and GMac. It takes one to win it all. We don't have one this year. Carolina? They have two guys who could be that star. Kentucky's got two guys who could be that star. Are we counting on Kris to be that guy? Hope is just "hope." As much as i love guys who suit up for my school, I wouldn't put money on that.

I would also consider that, even if you believe SU has position advantages, other coaches will probably have their players playing harder and with greater cohesiveness than JB come March.
 

STEVEHOLT

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Dexter Strickland and Kendall Marshall don't seem like a backcourt that is good enough to win a national championship, and in college, backcourts still rule.
.

Ill take Strickland and Marshall over Triche and Scoop. The problem is they are entrenched. I dont mind one of them on the court at a time, but both is not optimal. Hopefully as the season goes on, we see more of Waiters and MCW and a little less of these two.
 

orangefan13

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Syracuse will probably play 10 guys come Big East play. And Cooney is the 11th who would have played. Even Mookie our 12th guy could have earned some Big East minutes of a top 25 team if we didn't have a good 3rd guard. We are deeper its not even close.

Melo will be much better then Oriaki and Drummond is just a unproven freshmen.
Melo should be better then both of them.

Post lost credibility on those two arguments. Furthermore, Rak will give whoever else is in Uconn's frontcourt trouble on the offensive end.

Not that it matters anyway what some hype-building fan over a few average players of another fanbase thinks. Because it doesn't matter really.
 

thebigeast44

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One should differentiate between depth and top talent. We may be the deepest team in college basketball this year. However, we do not have anyone who is clearly an NBA lottery pick although some of our players have that potential down the line - at least first round potential.

But in terms of top notch talent, I'd say North Carolina and Kentucky clearly are loaded with potential lottery and first round NBA picks. And describing Harrison Barnes as merely "good" - if he was on our team, we would likely be ranked #1 in the nation and perhaps the favorite to win it all.

UConn has similar talent to ours although a couple of their players would surely be picked in the NBA draft ahead of any of our players right now in terms of Lamb and Drummond. Ohio State has Sullinger, one of the favorites to win player of the year and a number of other fine players. And Duke has Austin Rivers who I would take over any player on our roster - not to mention numerous other McD's AA's.

We're ranked 5 or 6th and that's where we belong. We could beat any of the teams ahead of us on a given day. However, let's not go overboard in terms of proclaiming our talent level better than it actually is. Although, many seem to do so year after year. Check out the latest NBA mock drafts for more info:

http://nbadraft.net/2012mock_draft

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2012/

We've recruited better lately than we have in many years. However, North Carolina, Kentucky and Duke nearly always have better recruiting classes and more talented players along with Kansas and a few others. Check out the number of McD's AA's by school and total # of NBA draft picks:

http://statsheet.com/bhsb/mcplayers_by_college

http://statsheet.com/mcb/drafts/browse_teams?s=2

We're on the next rung right after those top schools. And some years we are better than them. And I'm OK with that - that's who we are. I'm a Yankees fan in baseball. If I wanted to cheer for a team similar to them in college basketball, I'd cheer for one the top teams I mentioned. However, I'm an Orangemen fan and always will be. I'm excited about this years team and their potential. It's going to be a fun year.

Let's Go Orange!
 

orangefan13

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Yeah but we have the defense to stop lottery picks. Thets not forget that ;):D
SUballcouchburn

Fab isn't to far from lottery pick potential. Hes got a ways to go but his ceiling is there and he has made a Awesome jump this year. The verdict is out on Dion possibly being a top 20 pick right now as well.
 
D

dash-30-dash

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zls, we talk depth and you take starters. We are talking about the second 5. I think ours is better. Your top five might very well be better. We split last last year. We beat you at UConn and lost in OT in MSG
 

cuseclappy

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anthony davis looked very very very good in kentuckys season opener..i know it was against FM, but saw one highlight where he blocked a shot, ran down the court, caught the ball at the free throw line and dunked it in, theres a low percentage of players in ncaa bball who can do that
 

samspann

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and that's Kentucky, but they don't have a true center. They do have Anthony Davis, who may wind up being what Kevin Garnett might have looked like if he ever went to college.

But aside from Kentucky, we have more talent this season than anyone.

#1 North Carolina - John Henson and Ty Zeller both start. That's one big white guy too many. They are workmanlike and efficient, but they lack athleticism and don't scare me a bit. Harrison Barnes is a good forward, and McAdoo will be good in time. Dexter Strickland and Kendall Marshall don't seem like a backcourt that is good enough to win a national championship, and in college, backcourts still rule.

Ohio State is mostly Sullinger and Buford and who are the rest of these guys ?

UConn at #4 is a joke. Last year's "Champions" were a 9-9 Big East squad that got lucky and hit an 11 game winning streak when they stopped calling traveling on Kemba Walker in the Big East tournament. Take away their best player, and what do you have ? A mediocre team, with a couple guards who could have played for UMass 20 years ago.

But I would never bet against Jim Calhoun in a single elimination game. I do hope they get that title vacated for cheating, though. Them having 3 titles instead of only 2 is starting to rub my ass. We better make a goddam Final Four again pretty soon.


Henson lacks athleticism? Really? You sure you're watching the UNC men's team and not the woman's?

And saying Barnes is a "good" forward is like saying that Carmelo just had a "good" season in '03.
 

Alsacs

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#1 North Carolina - John Henson and Ty Zeller both start. That's one big white guy too many. They are workmanlike and efficient, but they lack athleticism and don't scare me a bit.
When did Henson turn white? The dude is a poor man's Scottie Pippen long defensive stopper and he doesn't have the offensive game of Pippen, but is a machine on the defensive end and will get you 8-12 points in junk putbacks. North Carolina's weakness is outside of Harrison Barnes they have nobody who consistently hit the 3-pt shoot. So if Syracuse and their zone played UNC I would like our chances. Kentucky is talented, but their coach will let them down in a close game because he is the ultimate roll the ball and play coach. I agree we could be the 3rd best team going into the NCAA tournament I like our chances with UConn they will need Lamb to be special and we have the bigs to throw at Drummond.
 

Knicks411

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But aside from Kentucky, we have more talent this season than anyone.

#1 North Carolina - John Henson and Ty Zeller both start. That's one big white guy too many. They are workmanlike and efficient, but they lack athleticism and don't scare me a bit. Harrison Barnes is a good forward, and McAdoo will be good in time. Dexter Strickland and Kendall Marshall don't seem like a backcourt that is good enough to win a national championship, and in college, backcourts still rule.

John Henson lacks athleticism? We must be watching different players. (Also, not that it matters, but John Henson is white?) Henson is a freak.

Barnes is more than a good forward, he's better than anyone we have on our team.

Carolina has at probably 4 first round picks on their team, and at least 2 of of them are likely lottery picks. And that is for next year, not counting on guys projecting forward a few years.

NBAdraft.net has McAdoo and Barnes in next year's top 5, with Henson and Zeller 22 and 29. Chad Ford has McAdoo and Barnes in the top 5, with Henson 14th, and Zeller 21st. WE have Kris

None of which is to denigrate our team or our chances of beating them if we played, but when I think of talent, I think of NBA players. Carolina has many more surefire NBA players, and NBA contributors than we do. I'd trade our roster for their roster in a second. They definitely are weaker in the backcourt than the frontcourt, but that's the same backcourt that won the ACC and took them to within a game of the final four last March.

Reading the OP again, maybe this was a joke?
 

Knicks411

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Ill take Strickland and Marshall over Triche and Scoop. The problem is they are entrenched. I dont mind one of them on the court at a time, but both is not optimal. Hopefully as the season goes on, we see more of Waiters and MCW and a little less of these two.

I definitely need to see more from MCW. I have no doubt about his talent, but I don't see him as any more than our 4th guard right now.
 

longislandcuse

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Im not sold on Zeller or Henson. Henson is a defensive freak . Hes Ethiopia skinny though, I think Fab (has the ability) to push Zeller or Henson around. Barnes is nasty but hes no Carmelo. If Boeheim would start Dion, I think we could see a dominant player on our team as well.
 

CusefanATL

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#1 North Carolina - John Henson and Ty Zeller both start. That's one big white guy too many. They are workmanlike and efficient, but they lack athleticism and don't scare me a bit. Harrison Barnes is a good forward, and McAdoo will be good in time. Dexter Strickland and Kendall Marshall don't seem like a backcourt that is good enough to win a national championship, and in college, backcourts still rule.

UConn at #4 is a joke. Last year's "Champions" were a 9-9 Big East squad that got lucky and hit an 11 game winning streak when they stopped calling traveling on Kemba Walker in the Big East tournament. Take away their best player, and what do you have ? A mediocre team, with a couple guards who could have played for UMass 20 years ago.

1. Henson's name sounds white but only tyler zeller is white. we had craig forth on our natl champ team. john henson is a much taller hakim warrick.
2. fact. i have NO idea how uconn is top 20 preseason. they are bound to be this year's mich st (which i correctly picked as the most overrated team of the year last year)
 

Eric15

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and that's Kentucky, but they don't have a true center. They do have Anthony Davis, who may wind up being what Kevin Garnett might have looked like if he ever went to college.

But aside from Kentucky, we have more talent this season than anyone.

#1 North Carolina - John Henson and Ty Zeller both start. That's one big white guy too many. They are workmanlike and efficient, but they lack athleticism and don't scare me a bit. Harrison Barnes is a good forward, and McAdoo will be good in time. Dexter Strickland and Kendall Marshall don't seem like a backcourt that is good enough to win a national championship, and in college, backcourts still rule.

Ohio State is mostly Sullinger and Buford and who are the rest of these guys ?

UConn at #4 is a joke. Last year's "Champions" were a 9-9 Big East squad that got lucky and hit an 11 game winning streak when they stopped calling traveling on Kemba Walker in the Big East tournament. Take away their best player, and what do you have ? A mediocre team, with a couple guards who could have played for UMass 20 years ago.

But I would never bet against Jim Calhoun in a single elimination game. I do hope they get that title vacated for cheating, though. Them having 3 titles instead of only 2 is starting to rub my ass. We better make a goddam Final Four again pretty soon.

I agree with you that Kentucky is the most talented team in the country. I actually think that we are essentially North Carolina's alter ego. We are each immensely talented, but while they are loaded up front and just OK in the backcourt, we are loaded in the backcourt and just OK up front.

Calling Harrison Barnes simply a "good" forward is off the mark, in my opinion. He will very likely be a first-team All-American and will probably be an NBA starter for a dozen years.

Also, UConn didn't get lucky, they won Maui, and they also won @ Texas. While their Big East 9-9 was mediocre, remember that the Big East was an absolute guantlet last year. I think they will be a fixture in the Top 10 all year (as much as it eats away at my soul to say that).
 

longislandcuse

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I agree with you that Kentucky is the most talented team in the country. I actually think that we are essentially North Carolina's alter ego. We are each immensely talented, but while they are loaded up front and just OK in the backcourt, we are loaded in the backcourt and just OK up front.

Calling Harrison Barnes simply a "good" forward is off the mark, in my opinion. He will very likely be a first-team All-American and will probably be an NBA starter for a dozen years.

Also, UConn didn't get lucky, they won Maui, and they also won @ Texas. While their Big East 9-9 was mediocre, remember that the Big East was an absolute guantlet last year. I think they will be a fixture in the Top 10 all year (as much as it eats away at my soul to say that).

Just "ok" up front? Im not saying were gonna be dominant but the potential is there. Fab Melo has lottery pick potential (wait and see). Xmas is a top recruit who looks good. KJo is picked by some as the best small forward in college basketball. Fair and Baye come off the bench. Thats some pretty nasty (potential)
 

Eric15

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Just "ok" up front? Im not saying were gonna be dominant but the potential is there. Fab Melo has lottery pick potential (wait and see). Xmas is a top recruit who looks good. KJo is picked by some as the best small forward in college basketball. Fair and Baye come off the bench. Thats some pretty nasty (potential)

Yes, in my opinion, at this point I think we're merely OK up front (talking PF and C). Fab looks more slimmer and more athletic which I love, Keita and Xmas are fantastic athletes who can rebound and block shots. But at this point, I have no idea who, if anyone, can consistently score in the post like AO and Rick did. That is my biggest concern as to whether we're National Title good or merely Sweet 16 good.
 

longislandcuse

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Yes, in my opinion, at this point I think we're merely OK up front (talking PF and C). Fab looks more slimmer and more athletic which I love, Keita and Xmas are fantastic athletes who can rebound and block shots. But at this point, I have no idea who, if anyone, can consistently score in the post like AO and Rick did. That is my biggest concern as to whether we're National Title good or merely Sweet 16 good.

Yea, as of now, I can see your point. I just think the potential for a bigtime front line is there.
 

PoppyHart

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Im not sold on Zeller or Henson. Henson is a defensive freak . Hes Ethiopia skinny though, I think Fab (has the ability) to push Zeller or Henson around. Barnes is nasty but hes no Carmelo. If Boeheim would start Dion, I think we could see a dominant player on our team as well.

Well, Fab may push those guys around. After all, he did put up one of the best quadruple (low) singles of all-time against mighty Fordham. That is, if you count personal fouls as one of the categories.
 

mauconnfan

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Syracuse will probably play 10 guys come Big East play. And Cooney is the 11th who would have played. Even Mookie our 12th guy could have earned some Big East minutes of a top 25 team if we didn't have a good 3rd guard. We are deeper its not even close.

Melo will be much better then Oriaki and Drummond is just a unproven freshmen.
Melo should be better then both of them.

Post lost credibility on those two arguments. Furthermore, Rak will give whoever else is in Uconn's frontcourt trouble on the offensive end.

Not that it matters anyway what some hype-building fan over a few average players of another fanbase thinks. Because it doesn't matter really.

That's some funny stuff...the big stiff gets a little better and now he's better than Alex O and Andre D...lol!!!!
 

HoustonCuse

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UConn should start prepping for their move to the A-10. A ragtag bunch of scrappy players with the crypt keeper at the helm. Lots of potential there...
 

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