Orange Tipoff: Friday, October 13

[Orangezoo]

This is what I was getting at. Both of those guys are fine doing a two dribble pull up or straight line drive, but when I think of ball handling forwards I think of guys like Marek, Oshae, Kris Joseph or CJ Fair.

This is also why I think a 4 guard lineup is a realistic thought. If guys like Quadir can hit open 3s at like a 34-36 pct clip you put way more pressure on a defense than having a one trick pony on the floor. Copeland could be a real matchup nightmare same as Brown at times. Or you go 4 guards with McLeod and the lob being very much part of the gameplan with that kind of lineup.

 

[Cusefan0307]

This is also why I think a 4 guard lineup is a realistic thought. If guys like Quadir can hit open 3s at like a 34-36 pct clip you put way more pressure on a defense than having a one trick pony on the floor. Copeland could be a real matchup nightmare same as Brown at times. Or you go 4 guards with McLeod and the lob being very much part of the gameplan with that kind of lineup.

Agree. I came away thinking the Blue team was a lineup we legitimately could see in a game and that was with Brown at the 5. He’s going to be hard to keep off the court.

 

[BomberOrange]

Bill Self may be a POS but their player development is pretty damn good. Far worse programs to spend two years in without touching the court.

Maybe he develops but he gets Top 5 recruiting classes every year. Talent helps a lot

 

[UpstateSM]

Maybe he develops but he gets Top 5 recruiting classes every year. Talent helps a lot

He won a natty with zero five stars literally two years ago

 

[Dcuse]

That’s a mistake by Donna. The blue team won. The shooting was rough. Here’s some observations I had. Apologies if it’s a bit long without a thorough proofread.

Mintz and Starling are the obvious 1A and 1B on this team. They are going to get to the rim easily. It would have been nice to see them make a few outside shots, but nothing that was an obvious problem in this scrimmage setting.

If JB was the coach he’d play Brown at center 30 mpg. From a skill level standpoint he’s the best option there, but McLeod is going to have to play against big teams. I’m sure Red is going to have a tough time figuring out what to do here because Brown can do a lot of the same things Marek did for us while being much stronger. McLeod like most bigs was pretty invisible in this scrimmage setting.

I know a lot of people are high on Westry, but I think next year is really his year. You can see from a skill standpoint he’s just a bit behind Judah and JJ. Cuffe is athletic and has a nice looking shot. To me he’s a year away as well and if I had to guess Westry would play the point and Cuffe would play off the ball if they were ever in together.

Overall I don’t see much separation out of Benny, Bell, Taylor, and Copeland. I think we all expect Benny to play big minutes and Bell to get the first shot at the 3, but I don’t think they’re that much better than the other two guys. The problem for both of them is their inability to handle the ball and they didn‘t look that great in this setting tonight.

Copeland played the best out of these guys in the scrimmage. Taylor bothered Benny with his physicality and made looked comfortable executing the pick and roll as a ball handler against him. The way he went up against Benny I could see him playing some 4 for us. Copeland could easily play the 3. You can sense those two know they have to fight for PT. They were going all out.

This has the potential to be a good team, but Red is going to have some decisions to make. You can see he wants to play 4 out and space the court with multiple pick and rolls. It may be easier to do that with some guys who will probably start on the bench. How the rotation shakes out will be interesting because outside of the top two guys I . He stripped JJ clean last nightthink everyone else should or could play based on matchups.

One thing I need to take exception with in your post….. Kyle Cuffe is NOT a year away from anything. He is a dogged defender. He stripped JJ clean last night for a breakaway finish and also showed he can get to the rim pretty easily with the ball in his hands. His shot looks good as previously mentioned. He hasn’t been mentioned much here in preseason posts but he is the one I’m looking at as the one to emerge.
BTW……Mintz is just another level. An incredible gift that he’s back here for another year.

 

[Cusefan0307]

One thing I need to take exception with in your post….. Kyle Cuffe is NOT a year away from anything. He is a dogged defender. He stripped JJ clean last night for a breakaway finish and also showed he can get to the rim pretty easily with the ball in his hands. His shot looks good as previously mentioned. He hasn’t been mentioned much here in preseason posts but he is the one I’m looking at as the one to emerge.
BTW……Mintz is just another level. An incredible gift that he’s back here for another year.

He impressed me more than Westry did. I should have stated I think he’s more a year away because of the guys in front of him more than anything.

 

[Orangezoo]

He impressed me more than Westry did. I should have states I think he’s more a year away because of the guys in front of him more than anything.

It goes to show the eye for talent this staff already clearly has.

To your point on Brown I agree. We will need 7-4 plenty of times this year matchup wise and it will be a nice safety net in the half court. 19/20 mins a game I expect from McLeod with a few lobs and blocks. I don't think with our pace of play and with him being a shot blocker that his rebound numbers will be high. More a result of style than anything.

That said we will see more 6-9 guys in the pivot than 6-11 plus. Just the nature of the game. Brown is just scratching the surface I think too. It will be about how good he is not about what the other bigs aren't.

Back to Cuffe- him being more ready is a really interesting variable. I think that along with Westry coming along and then Quadir- the forwards have their work cut out for them to outplay those guys. Lots of story lines to follow along. Gone are the days when the third guard on the team you held your breath they wouldn't be the cause of run for the other team.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

I would guess you’re right not having seen it. But one quick note to no one in particular: can a 6’10” kid with nice quickness and hops, please, please, please not settle for being a spot-up shooter?!?!?!?!?!

To me, the only two things I care about with Benny are intensity and activity. If he hits some threes, great. Even if he has a better handle I’m not sure about him as a creator. But I will be thoroughly happy if he is cutting through the lane, running the floor, all over the place on defense, fighting for loose balls and rebounds, altering shots.

That might not be the Benny that he thought he would be at this level. I get it. Fans like us had bigger dreams too. But that Benny will help us win more games and may even get him a look at the next level.

CMac liked to spot up also until he realized he could score inside. Benny shot 40% from three last year (19-48). Take that anytime. I think with our guards, Benny will be in much better position to score the ball.

 

[bballbeadle]

All over huh?

 

[JFly10]

I'm just so happy with have athletes again.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Outside of Jimmy Boeheim his one year here I don’t ever remember anyone shooting the ball well in this event. I think it’s a big adjustment going from a gym like the Melo center to an arena like the done from a depth perception standpoint. I doubt they’ve been in there until today.

Cooney killed it in one of these Orange madness events making 6 of them if I recall in their scrimmage.

 

[OrangeinDC]

This is what I was getting at. Both of those guys are fine doing a two dribble pull up or straight line drive, but when I think of ball handling forwards I think of guys like Marek, Oshae, Kris Joseph or CJ Fair.

Nothing that Benny needs to do should involve him taking more than 3-4 dribbles max. Beyond that, advantage defense. I think the same applies to Bell, JT and Brown. 1-2 dribbles for the bigs max. We have 5 ball handlers for anything more than that.

I don't think this team needs the style that Oshae, CJ and Kris provided at the forward spots. I don't really consider MD in that mold because he wasn't really a 1 v 1 type of offensive player like those 3, he was comfortable dribbling in the open court and on a break, but he didn't really use more than 2 dribbles when he attacked to score.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

He won a natty with zero five stars literally two years ago

You’re a zero five star.

 

[Cuse44]

Couple of thoughts:

Our best players are guards and we have a lot of them. 4 guard lineup could be a matchup opportunity for us - the bigger guards like Q / Westry /JJ / JT could be a problem for other teams forwards for sure.

Benny drove it more which is hopefully part of the new Benny

We will miss Jesse

Cuffe is a player - did anyone think he had a little Jonny Flynn in his game

 

[Lukeyloo]

BTW……Mintz is just another level. An incredible gift that he’s back here for another year.

We’re fortunate (for this year) that Judah missed all those 3s early last year. If he shot from 3 all year long like he did late in the season, he would’ve been gone.

 

[kcsu]

One thing I need to take exception with in your post….. Kyle Cuffe is NOT a year away from anything. He is a dogged defender. He stripped JJ clean last night for a breakaway finish and also showed he can get to the rim pretty easily with the ball in his hands. His shot looks good as previously mentioned. He hasn’t been mentioned much here in preseason posts but he is the one I’m looking at as the one to emerge.
BTW……Mintz is just another level. An incredible gift that he’s back here for another year.

Cuffe, other than Judah has the most pure talent of any player on the team. Chance is probably 3rd. JJ Copeland and Benny not too far behind.
Cuffe is a special athlete. Off the chart gifts.

 

[MikeSU02]

This thread gave me life after the football game.

Thanks for all the reports.

 

[billsin01]

CMac liked to spot up also until he realized he could score inside. Benny shot 40% from three last year (19-48). Take that anytime. I think with our guards, Benny will be in much better position to score the ball.

I guess as long as benny is really a good, consistent shooter. He was shooting like .286 (10-for-35) up until the last four games then he went 9 of 13 in a four-game stretch to end the season. Both are small samples so it’s sort of hard to say either way.

His jumper looked MUCH better last year and he looked more and more confident in it as well. So hopefully that holds true.

Either way, I’m a bit skeptical of his ability to create offense. That said, I’m also not concerned with it. There are plenty of other ways to score and a ton of ways to contribute.

But from everything we saw last season and reading the tea leaves this off-season, Brown seems like he’s going to be a big part of the mix at the 4/5 spots. I’d imagine Benny will get a very long leash, but however he does it, we really need him to be a positive factor on both ends the floor.

 

[Orangezoo]

If you look across our schedule there aren't many quality bigs or honestly bigger teams we face outside of Maui and that will depend on how things go. Tenn is not a big team for starters. Oregon and LSU have good size but only Oregon returns a true big man and we are talking 6-10/6-11. LSU's guys are skinnier 6-10 dudes. Gtown isn't rolling with much in that dept either.

In ACC play its the usual suspects- UNC and FSU along with Duke( Filipowski mostly along with the Northwestern txfr in his second year in Durham). Pitt is the other team that's a bigger team in general- but they lack much at Guard. Outside of that it's mostly undersized bigs and smaller teams in general across the league as those teams that do have size it's not experienced size or more than just role players. Guys that are pretty much a non threat on offense .

Teams that aren't effective playing the pick and roll will really struggle vs our bigger lineup I suspect. Teams that can expose it we will challenge with small ball and force them to prove they can defend 3 or more guys who can make plays off the bounce and may be forced to throw a zone at us.

If Red can key in on making the right adjustments to counter there is a lot of meat on the bone success wise even with our schedule.

I will just add that we should be able to give a number of different looks in our mtm with the defensive range that we have in Judah, Westry and JJ. Picking up 3/4 court and using a hedge to make it more difficult for teams to quickly force a switch hopefully is one of those tactics.

Red opened talking purely about mtm as our D in media day. He's got his coach speak game on though. The moments of zone I bet will come but now it's time to keep that reserved for games when it's the right time two weeks out.

 

[MSOrange]

If you look across our schedule there aren't many quality bigs or honestly bigger teams we face outside of Maui and that will depend on how things go. Tenn is not a big team for starters. Oregon and LSU have good size but only Oregon returns a true big man and we are talking 6-10/6-11. LSU's guys are skinnier 6-10 dudes. Gtown isn't rolling with much in that dept either.

In ACC play its the usual suspects- UNC and FSU along with Duke( Filipowski mostly along with the Northwestern txfr in his second year in Durham). Pitt is the other team that's a bigger team in general- but they lack much at Guard. Outside of that it's mostly undersized bigs and smaller teams in general across the league as those teams that do have size it's not experienced size or more than just role players. Guys that are pretty much a non threat on offense .

Teams that aren't effective playing the pick and roll will really struggle vs our bigger lineup I suspect. Teams that can expose it we will challenge with small ball and force them to prove they can defend 3 or more guys who can make plays off the bounce and may be forced to throw a zone at us.

If Red can key in on making the right adjustments to counter there is a lot of meat on the bone success wise even with our schedule.

I will just add that we should be able to give a number of different looks in our mtm with the defensive range that we have in Judah, Westry and JJ. Picking up 3/4 court and using a hedge to make it more difficult for teams to quickly force a switch hopefully is one of those tactics.

Red opened talking purely about mtm as our D in media day. He's got his coach speak game on though. The moments of zone I bet will come but now it's time to keep that reserved for games when it's the right time two weeks out.

Good post and I'm ok with some zone. Just want a different option when some bench player averaging 5 PPG is throwing down his 5th 3 pointer of the game against us.

 

[Orangezoo]

Good post and I'm ok with some zone. Just want a different option when some bench player averaging 5 PPG is throwing down his 5th 3 pointer of the game against us.

It should be a situational tool at the absolute most as you see it utilized today across the country.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[IthacaMatt]

This is also why I think a 4 guard lineup is a realistic thought. If guys like Quadir can hit open 3s at like a 34-36 pct clip you put way more pressure on a defense than having a one trick pony on the floor. Copeland could be a real matchup nightmare same as Brown at times. Or you go 4 guards with McLeod and the lob being very much part of the gameplan with that kind of lineup.

I like Copeland's knack for offensive rebounds, too. He's not in the same league, but he's kind of like Malik Brown, in that the ball "just seems to find him".

 

[OrlandoCuse]

I like Copeland's knack for offensive rebounds, too. He's not in the same league, but he's kind of like Malik Brown, in that the ball "just seems to find him".

Copeland may surprise a lot of people this year. I think he may be that spark/glue guy off the bench that can play multiple positions.

 

[CardiacCuse]

That’s a mistake by Donna. The blue team won. The shooting was rough. Here’s some observations I had. Apologies if it’s a bit long without a thorough proofread.

Mintz and Starling are the obvious 1A and 1B on this team. They are going to get to the rim easily. It would have been nice to see them make a few outside shots, but nothing that was an obvious problem in this scrimmage setting.

If JB was the coach he’d play Brown at center 30 mpg. From a skill level standpoint he’s the best option there, but McLeod is going to have to play against big teams. I’m sure Red is going to have a tough time figuring out what to do here because Brown can do a lot of the same things Marek did for us while being much stronger. McLeod like most bigs was pretty invisible in this scrimmage setting.

I know a lot of people are high on Westry, but I think next year is really his year. You can see from a skill standpoint he’s just a bit behind Judah and JJ. Cuffe is athletic and has a nice looking shot. To me he’s a year away as well and if I had to guess Westry would play the point and Cuffe would play off the ball if they were ever in together.

Overall I don’t see much separation out of Benny, Bell, Taylor, and Copeland. I think we all expect Benny to play big minutes and Bell to get the first shot at the 3, but I don’t think they’re that much better than the other two guys. The problem for both of them is their inability to handle the ball and they didn‘t look that great in this setting tonight.

Copeland played the best out of these guys in the scrimmage. Taylor bothered Benny with his physicality and made looked comfortable executing the pick and roll as a ball handler against him. The way he went up against Benny I could see him playing some 4 for us. Copeland could easily play the 3. You can sense those two know they have to fight for PT. They were going all out.

This has the potential to be a good team, but Red is going to have some decisions to make. You can see he wants to play 4 out and space the court with multiple pick and rolls. It may be easier to do that with some guys who will probably start on the bench. How the rotation shakes out will be interesting because outside of the top two guys I think everyone else should or could play based on matchups.

great report...and I know you are just being objective...but kinda deflates my hopes a bit...benny not separating himself by now is a problem for the front court. westry and cuffe seeming a year away? oh no. mcleod invisible? he's going to play a lot too... copeland outplaying all of the other forwards?

hmmm...idk

the backcourt is going to be good most likely but if the rest of the roster falls short...will be a decent team but not a great one.