OT: 1996 Bulls vs. 2016 Warriors | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com

OT: 1996 Bulls vs. 2016 Warriors

Who on GS is going to stop MJ from scoring whenever he feels like it? Curry's an average defender, at best, and Thompson's no better. MJ and Pippen could at least slow down Curry and Thompson. I don't see who could stop MJ.
 
Who on GS is going to stop MJ from scoring whenever he feels like it? Curry's an average defender, at best, and Thompson's no better. MJ and Pippen could at least slow down Curry and Thompson. I don't see who could stop MJ.

Thompson is a pretty good defender. I mean, it's Michael freaking Jordan, but Thompson is better than Steph, and he has more size to check MJ with. Maybe some Iggy and Shaun Livingston as well.
 
Who on GS is going to stop MJ from scoring whenever he feels like it? Curry's an average defender, at best, and Thompson's no better. MJ and Pippen could at least slow down Curry and Thompson. I don't see who could stop MJ.

Thompson is actually a pretty good defender, though I think Iguodala (who is very good on D) would spend the most time on Jordan.

Golden State is a good defensive team.
 
Yeah, I would say if you have multiple good perimeter defenders, none of whom are the clear perfect guy to put on Curry, then you're best off rotating which one is guarding Curry.

Hakeem, I believe, was a soccer player growing up who picked up basketball late. He was a heck of an athlete. I think people often say "athleticism" when they really mean a guy jumps high. I'd say Hakeem had more overall athleticism, and yeah definitely a better "basketball athlete".

Actually, I was responding to a post from earlier where the proposition was suggested that people today are better athletes. Without splitting hairs, "athleticism" to me means bigger, stronger, faster. Which Howard most assuredly is over Olajuwon [who is no slouch by any means].

I agree that there is no universal definition for athleticism. Gymnasts might be the best athletes of all, but they sure aren't bigger than athletes playing other sports. There's a huge element of athleticism that involves hand-eye coordination, as well. Archers are great athletes in that regard, but I don't envision that "athleticism" translating to the NBA. So of course, we're talking about running faster and jumping higher--we're talking about NBA basketball, no?
 
Who on GS is going to stop MJ from scoring whenever he feels like it? Curry's an average defender, at best, and Thompson's no better. MJ and Pippen could at least slow down Curry and Thompson. I don't see who could stop MJ.

The Bulls operating in today's hands-off defensive environment would be lethal. Both Jordan and Pippen would be virtually unstoppable if defender's couldn't touch them under today's rules. They were damn near impossible to stop under the old rules where they defenses were allowed to knock them around. And I think people forget about how talented Kukoc and Harper were in complimentary roles.

It was asinine for Pippen to suggest that they'd sweep Golden State, but that's what old timers do--embellish. I lean strongly toward the Bulls in this matchup [again, played under contemporary defensive rules] because I believe that Jordan >>>> Curry, but it would be a fun series.
 
The Bulls operating in today's hands-off defensive environment would be lethal. Both Jordan and Pippen would be virtually unstoppable if defender's couldn't touch them under today's rules. They were damn near impossible to stop under the old rules where they defenses were allowed to knock them around. And I think people forget about how talented Kukoc and Harper were in complimentary roles.

It was asinine for Pippen to suggest that they'd sweep Golden State, but that's what old timers do--embellish. I lean strongly toward the Bulls in this matchup [again, played under contemporary defensive rules] because I believe that Jordan >>>> Curry, but it would be a fun series.

I think it's worth pointing out that the Bulls were an awesome perimeter defensive team, and they'd also be hurt if they couldn't handcheck as much as they did in 96. Not saying it would hurt more on defense than help on offense (not sure either way) but it needs to be mentioned.
 
I don't think there has been anyone more annoying in my life than the 90s Jordan-bulls fans.

give me the 00s redsux fans anyday over that group of delusional front-running misfit tools of a fan.

I don't mind losing to a bunch of chowda heads who been with a loser for their entire life, but when I see a bunch of morons in Jordan jerseys, who were likely all Knick fans 3 years ago, going bonkers for another title...I just wanted to punch them as hard as could and then kick them when theyre down.

their closet is filling up, for in addition to that hasnt been worn jersey in 15 years, an 00s Kobe, and early 10s LeBron heat both hang...for they are now all wearing Curry jerseys.

F them.

That would be a great Bud Light commercial. Here's to you 90s sports fan guy, with your Bulls, Cowboys and Braves apparel that has been in the back of your closet for 20 years.
 
Actually, I was responding to a post from earlier where the proposition was suggested that people today are better athletes. Without splitting hairs, "athleticism" to me means bigger, stronger, faster. Which Howard most assuredly is over Olajuwon [who is no slouch by any means].

I agree that there is no universal definition for athleticism. Gymnasts might be the best athletes of all, but they sure aren't bigger than athletes playing other sports. There's a huge element of athleticism that involves hand-eye coordination, as well. Archers are great athletes in that regard, but I don't envision that "athleticism" translating to the NBA. So of course, we're talking about running faster and jumping higher--we're talking about NBA basketball, no?

I wasn't referring to you, I haven't even read your post yet. I've been making my way through this thread, and keep replying to posts when they catch my eye, and then am back to making my way through it.

I'd give Howard as being stronger and jumping higher than Hakeem. I don't think he's faster though.

A lot of people tend to focus just on strength and jumping and speed as athleticism.

I can think of a lot of guys I know who are/were very strong and could run and jump but who were just kind've choppy/spazzy. No coordination. The kind of guys who wouldn't be able to field a ground ball or hit a baseball if their life depended on it. The kind've guys who if they were to jump off a diving board and catch a ball, would jump too early and spazzily have the ball bounce off their hands.
 
Who on GS is going to stop MJ from scoring whenever he feels like it? Curry's an average defender, at best, and Thompson's no better. MJ and Pippen could at least slow down Curry and Thompson. I don't see who could stop MJ.

Curry's better than an average defender. The numbers bear out that he is one of the best one on one defenders at guard in the league. Thompson is good as well.

Some old narratives have a hard time dying.
 
That would be a great Bud Light commercial. Here's to you 90s sports fan guy, with your Bulls, Cowboys and Braves apparel that has been in the back of your closet for 20 years.
love it.

I could star in it for ive basically gone from '90s Mickey Rourke to '10s Mickey Rourke...and the hate would be real.
 
I wasn't referring to you, I haven't even read your post yet. I've been making my way through this thread, and keep replying to posts when they catch my eye, and then am back to making my way through it.

I'd give Howard as being stronger and jumping higher than Hakeem. I don't think he's faster though.

A lot of people tend to focus just on strength and jumping and speed as athleticism.

I can think of a lot of guys I know who are/were very strong and could run and jump but who were just kind've choppy/spazzy. No coordination. The kind of guys who wouldn't be able to field a ground ball or hit a baseball if their life depended on it. The kind've guys who if they were to jump off a diving board and catch a ball, would jump too early and spazzily have the ball bounce off their hands.

Sure. Those guys probably couldn't play baseball. But they'd kill it at Linebacker, or doing track and field. Or wrestling.

Athleticism comes in many shapes and forms, as you point out--and one aspect that is often overlooked is "physical intelligence." Some players just have innate nose for the ball [whatever that means to their chosen sport of play]. Lebron sees the game two steps ahead of when things happen. Manny Ramirez [who was a dunce by every measurable standard] was a genius when it came to hitting the baseball. Some people just have "it," even though "it" varies by sport.
 
That would be a great Bud Light commercial. Here's to you 90s sports fan guy, with your Bulls, Cowboys and Braves apparel that has been in the back of your closet for 20 years.
love it.

I could star in it for ive basically gone from '90s Mickey Rourke to '10s Mickey Rourke...and the hate would be real.

That's amazing! And great first post, Kaiser! As has been pretty well established, I'm not a Lebron fan. I remember getting into it years ago with some Cavaliers "fan," and making a sarcastic comment about the guy's passion coming from him being a life long Cleveland Cavs enthusiast.

To which he replied--"Huh? I only root for them because of Lebron."

Exactly.
 
Curry's better than an average defender. The numbers bear out that he is one of the best one on one defenders at guard in the league. Thompson is good as well.

Some old narratives have a hard time dying.
Hey, an NBA post! How did it take me this long to see it??

You actually understate Thompson as a defender. He's probably in the top 5 to 10 wing defenders in the league. He's elite. But anyone who thinks that Golden State doesn't have wing defenders who can slow down Jordan is nuts. Their entire team is pretty much built around defending wings better than any team in recent memory. Curry's good, Thompson's elite, Iguodala was the MVP of last year's finals mostly because he played absolutely unreal defense on LeBron, Livingston is good, and their bigs, specifically Barnes and Green, can all switch onto wings and more than hold their own--Green's probably the best on ball defender in the league. Now, might Jordan drop 50 on them? Sure, cause he's Michael @#$@@# Jordan! But Golden State would make it hella difficult.

And here's the thing about the larger conversations. Too me, it's a really difficult question that almost can't be answered because both teams were built, both offensively and defensively for their eras. People talk about Jordan averaging 50 a game today, and they fail to realize that in many ways, defenses today have unique advantages that they didn't in the mid-90's. Scoring (on both a raw and points-per-possession basis) since they got rid of hand-checking is actually DOWN significantly compared to the mid-90's. This is not because the players got worse, but rather because the rules committed simultaneously got rid of the old illegal defense rules. Now, teams like the Garnett-era Celtics, Thibodeau-era Bulls, and the Lebron-era Heat are able to play a sort of hybrid switching defense that can stifle the pick and roll and double the post without simultaneously giving up wide-open threes every time. Today's Warriors do all that the above teams did and also add the ability to switch every pick 1-4 (and 1-5 when Green plays center). The thing about the Curry/Green pick and roll (and Thompson to a degree) is that he is the perfect antidote to the new NBA defenses, he will absolutely shoot dribbling around a pick 30 feet from the basket if the big man is not hedging hard. And if he hedges hard, he will simply pass to Green who will play 4 on 3 with deadly precision. Switch the pick and watch Curry destroy every big in the NBA off the dribble. Essentially the Bulls just don't have enough shooting and nimble enough Big men to score and play defense against the Warriors.

But the Warriors would have a really tough time with 90's era rules. Grab Curry every time he goes around a pick and your life gets so much easier. And how would Barnes (and even Bogut?) survive in the post without the ability of help-side defenders to come in waves and then rotate as the ball gets kicked out? Not especially well (although I'm not sure the Bulls have the post players to really take advantage --except for Jordan, I guess). And similarly, without the ability to help on drives nearly as effectively, how would they stop Jordan and Pippin? It'd be really tough.

Anyhow, tl;dr. These teams were designed and built specifically to take advantage of the rules they played under. Asking which one would win is almost like trying to compare a team from now to a team in the year 2045, when they finally capitulate to fan desires and add a second ball.:eek:
 
Lebron sees the game two steps ahead of when things happen.

Just saving this for posterity sake so when I come back and tell you that you have never once said anything positive about LeBron, you can use my own notation against me thus proving me wrong in the ultimate manner. ;)

44cuse
 
Asking which one would win is almost like trying to compare a team from now to a team in the year 2045,:eek:

And that right there is what makes it a great OP. In a world where the norm is anti-Cooney, Rautins, Triche...fill in your own choice...or Dr. Doom talking about Michigan Football...this is nothing short of a GREAT OP.

44cuse
 
Curry's better than an average defender. The numbers bear out that he is one of the best one on one defenders at guard in the league. Thompson is good as well.

Some old narratives have a hard time dying.

That's why he and Thompson have even sniffed All-Defensive Team honors?
 
That's why he and Thompson have even sniffed All-Defensive Team honors?

I stand by this. Stats aren't the be all end all, but Curry statistically according to win shares and defensive efficiency Curry is better on d than everyone on that Bulls team outside of Jordan and Pippen. He was isolated 9 times against Lebron in the finals last year and Lebron didn't make one shot.
 
That's why he and Thompson have even sniffed All-Defensive Team honors?

There are a lot of good defenders who don't make All Defensive team. I mean, only 4 guards make it. It's not "4 guards are good defenders and everyone else is average."
 
There are a lot of good defenders who don't make All Defensive team. I mean, only 4 guards make it. It's not "4 guards are good defenders and everyone else is average."
Wrong.

I feel like I'm in Jeter to the HOF argument.

Jeter, seriously?? The HOF??

He's never been MVP, he has NO shot at the Hall.
 
Wrong.

I feel like I'm in Jeter to the HOF argument.

Jeter, seriously?? The HOF??

He's never been MVP, he has NO shot at the Hall.

So there's only 4 good defenders at the guard position in the entire league? SMH.
 
Wrong.

I feel like I'm in Jeter to the HOF argument.

Jeter, seriously?? The HOF??

He's never been MVP, he has NO shot at the Hall.
I wish I could have been there when Cal and Tony Gwynn went in. Derek's will be cool also.
 
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Also worth mentioning the Warriors are #5 in defense this year and were #1 last year; Klay and Steph obviously play a ton of minutes. Hard to imagine they aren't at least pretty good defensively if t hey play that many minutes for a good defense.
 

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