OT: 2014 U.S. News & World Report rankings (ACC)

[AZOrange]

Spending is investing.

I agree with Cantor's approach - the University has needed infrastructure spending for a long time.

We saw what the failure to invest did to our football program in the late 1990s.

Ding ding ding...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - http://tapatalk.com/m/

 

[SU2NASA]

Spending is investing.

Thanks Obama.

 

[OrangePA]

Thanks Obama.

Brilliant response.

Listen I am a business man - not a politician.

My business grows when we invest in personnel and new lines of business. We do that with various loans and lines of credit.

In ten years we have gone from a four person firm - four of us - to one that has over ninety professionals who generate revenue and many, many support staff members.

I presume you've heard of bond issues and business lines of credit? You understand that those means of raising money are used to invest in infrastructure and personnel - to help grow a business.

Do you have any idea how much money Jerry Jones borrowed to invest in the Dallas Cowboys? Do you realize that that investment - $140 million - has resulted in a business enterprise that is now worth over $2 billion?

It was your kind of thinking that caused our wonderful football program to almost disintegrate in the early 2000s. Instead of investing in the program - spending money - we did nothing, and all of our competition ran right past us.

If you don't understand that in every endeavor you have to invest, you don't understand basic business principles, and you apparently watch way too much Fox News.

I won't bother you anymore with this - I'm sure you're way to busy looking for proof that Obama was born in Kenya and is an undercover Muslim.

 

[OrangePA]

Thanks Obama.

Brilliant response.

Listen I am a business man - not a politician.

My business grows when we invest in personnel and new lines of business. We do that with various loans and lines of credit.

In ten years we have gone from a four person firm - four of us - to one that has over ninety professionals who generate revenue and many, many support staff members.

I presume you've heard of bond issues and business lines of credit? You understand that those means of raising money are used to invest in infrastructure and personnel - to help grow a business.

Do you have any idea how much money Jerry Jones borrowed to invest in the Dallas Cowboys? Do you realize that that investment - $140 million - has resulted in a business enterprise that is now worth over $2 billion?

It was your kind of thinking that caused our wonderful football program to almost disintegrate in the early 2000s. Instead of investing in the program - spending money - we did nothing, and all of our competition ran right past us.

If you don't understand that in every endeavor you have to invest, you don't understand basic business principles, and you apparently watch way too much Fox News.

I won't bother you anymore with this - I'm sure you're way to busy looking for proof that Obama was born in Kenya and is an undercover Muslim.

 

[Toga]

Gotcha.

I tend to rank my privates quite high too.

Reports to the contrary notwithstanding.

 

[IDOC]

I seem to remember that the admission standards were reduced for the sake of diversity. That may not be all bad (are we there to educate or get high rankings?) but it certainly will effect rankings.

 

[repos]

As mentioned previously in this thread if I was on BOT I would tell the next Chancellor to scale back spending as much as possible. I would let in 5% less students for a couple of years and become more selective and raise our academic profile.
Edit: I would also make Maxwell an undergraduate college as well. The Graduate department of Maxwell is on the level with the Kennedy School at Harvard. The Sen. Moynihan Fellowship is awesome for SU, We need the History/Poli Sci/Public Affairs/International Relations undergraduates getting the Maxwell brand to attract elite students.

Maxwell is known because of it's public administration program(1st ranked grad public affairs school) and it's economics (16th ranked grad research). I wouldn't expand it to contain programs such as History or Political science those are left to arts & sciences. I would look for it to distinguish and upgrade the undergraduate economics program and the public administration & international affairs program.

 

[SU2NASA]

Brilliant response.

Listen I am a business man - not a politician.

My business grows when we invest in personnel and new lines of business. We do that with various loans and lines of credit.

In ten years we have gone from a four person firm - four of us - to one that has over ninety professionals who generate revenue and many, many support staff members.

I presume you've heard of bond issues and business lines of credit? You understand that those means of raising money are used to invest in infrastructure and personnel - to help grow a business.

Do you have any idea how much money Jerry Jones borrowed to invest in the Dallas Cowboys? Do you realize that that investment - $140 million - has resulted in a business enterprise that is now worth over $2 billion?

It was your kind of thinking that caused our wonderful football program to almost disintegrate in the early 2000s. Instead of investing in the program - spending money - we did nothing, and all of our competition ran right past us.

If you don't understand that in every endeavor you have to invest, you don't understand basic business principles, and you apparently watch way too much Fox News.

I won't bother you anymore with this - I'm sure you're way to busy looking for proof that Obama was born in Kenya and is an undercover Muslim.

Bond issues? Lines of credit? What is this black magic you speak of?!?

I won't disagree with your diatribe on investment principles, the matter at hand is the quality of the return on investment made by Chancellor Cantor at Syracuse University.

That ROI has been terrible for the portfolio of her investments in the university, and the facts support it. The university may have plenty of nice shiny things, but the health of the university as a whole, and it's perception, has taken a nosedive during her time at SU.

She's living proof that just because you make an investment doesn't mean it's an intelligent one. I'd hope that someone with such a business acumen would understand that while write a condescending post puffing out their chest.

And by the way, I enjoyed your political generalizations, because thinking that this country and this Administration has out of control spending that has also had a negative return on investment totally equates with Obama's birth certificate.

Clown.

 

[SmilinBob]

I interned at ESPN and have friends who work there, but I went to Law School after SU. I work as a lawyer in Charlotte, NC. I hope to run for a BOT spot eventually.

What was your major at Newhouse? Communications with a focus on ?. My middle kid is a public relations with a spanish minor and just curious because at one time she really wanted to be a lawyer.

 

[elimunelson]

I applied in 93 and for sure BC was higher than Syracuse in all rankings (but not by much). I can remember being happy getting admitted to BC and assuming i'd get into Syracuse. I actually applied to arts and sciences by accident at SU, asked them over the phone to let me into Newhouse or i'm not going and they agreeing. I ended up going ultimately b/c Syracuse was offering generous merit based scholarships. I asked BC to match and they laughed in my face essentially.

The drop in the rankings is horrible and a black eye IMO. This needs to be fixed. Being tied in any metric with Clemson for academics is an embarrassment.

 

[Alsacs]

What was your major at Newhouse? Communications with a focus on ?. My middle kid is a public relations with a spanish minor and just curious because at one time she really wanted to be a lawyer.

My money is going to Binghamton and Northwestern and my youngest is shooting for Harvard for christ sake! I feel like Kristian Wigg in that scene from Bridesmaids..."Help me, I'm poor.".

I was a Public Relations major and then did Poli Sci as my co-major and got to two minors in Public Communications and International Relations because you could count a lot of Poli Sci classes with the IR curriculum as long as you took the language classes. Medill is a good school but I thought Newhouse was better and the previous Dean at Newhouse Dean Rubin was the best leader I have met he wrote me a great letter of recommendation for law school. I got into Boston College, Georgetown, Notre Dame denied at my top two of Yale and Harvard or I would be the named donor of IPF if I was making that type of money.

edit: BTW if your youngest gets into Harvard and I am sure its very possible just know if your family income is below a certain threshold Harvard doesn't charge that student tuition because of how huge their endowment is. I believe if the family income is below 100k a year tuition is free. If its between 100k and 200k its reduced so your youngest may save you some money after paying for two previous children for two years.

 

[NashvilleOrange]

Sucks to see SU sliding back. 62 isn't terrible but it's not nice to see so many state schools ahead or on par with us. Penn State, Florida, Ohio State, Washington, Georgia, Clemson, Pitt. Many students when I applied not too long ago would have been shoe-ins to all these schools. Why go to Syracuse when you can go to one of these schools at a fraction of the price? Another note - just a few years back Northeastern was ranked around 100. SU's administration should take some pointers from them.

 

[gbo]

"The drop in the rankings is horrible and a black eye IMO. This needs to be fixed. Being tied in any metric with Clemson for academics is an embarrassment".

That's not cool to say. I happened to think Clemson is a pretty good academic institution.

 

[Scooch]

Sucks to see SU sliding back. 62 isn't terrible but it's not nice to see so many state schools ahead or on par with us. Penn State, Florida, Ohio State, Washington, Georgia, Clemson, Pitt. Many students when I applied not too long ago would have been shoe-ins to all these schools. Why go to Syracuse when you can go to one of these schools at a fraction of the price? Another note - just a few years back Northeastern was ranked around 100. SU's administration should take some pointers from them.

Not to get too far off on a tangent, but as the father of a 10 and 6 year old, this is the question my wife and I are pondering as we save for college.

I have to remove Syracuse from the equation because I'm too much of a proud alum and emotionally attached to be rational about it. But it seems to me that, generally speaking, it'd be hard to justify forking over 3X the money for a kid to go to a "non elite" private school over an equally good public school.

I mean if my kids have the good fortune to get into an Ivy, Stanford, Carnegie Mellon, etc., then I'd move heaven and earth to fund it. But it's increasingly difficult to see the value in someone going to, say, a Fairfield University (in my town) over a UConn.

 

[Acuse]

I'm a pretty recent grad (2011) and even when I applied, I think 'Cuse was in the low 50s.

 

[Alsacs]

Not to get too far off on a tangent, but as the father of a 10 and 6 year old, this is the question my wife and I are pondering as we save for college.

I have to remove Syracuse from the equation because I'm too much of a proud alum and emotionally attached to be rational about it. But it seems to me that, generally speaking, it'd be hard to justify forking over 3X the money for a kid to go to a "non elite" private school over an equally good public school.

I mean if my kids have the good fortune to get into an Ivy, Stanford, Carnegie Mellon, etc., then I'd move heaven and earth to fund it. But it's increasingly difficult to see the value in someone going to, say, a Fairfield University (in my town) over a UConn.

Which is why we need the next Chancellor to cut spending as much as possible without cutting jobs and letting fewer students and become more selective. Some of the property this Chancellor spend millions of dollars on isn't going to help the academic profile IMO.

 

[orangeinjersey]

Not to get too far off on a tangent, but as the father of a 10 and 6 year old, this is the question my wife and I are pondering as we save for college.

I have to remove Syracuse from the equation because I'm too much of a proud alum and emotionally attached to be rational about it. But it seems to me that, generally speaking, it'd be hard to justify forking over 3X the money for a kid to go to a "non elite" private school over an equally good public school.

I mean if my kids have the good fortune to get into an Ivy, Stanford, Carnegie Mellon, etc., then I'd move heaven and earth to fund it. But it's increasingly difficult to see the value in someone going to, say, a Fairfield University (in my town) over a UConn.

Bingo.

I don't even have kids yet, but wife went to good ol RU, and we live in RU's backyard. I could throw a rock and hit RU campus. Why on earth would i spend $57k to send my kid to SU when RU could be had for $25k. Sidenote, i cannot believe it costs almost 60k to go to SU. That is crazy. Especially for a school ranked 60 something.

Its a shame, i cant justify the cost. 60k for elite school, yes. 60k for non newhouse SU, no way.

 

[Millhouse]

Not to get too far off on a tangent, but as the father of a 10 and 6 year old, this is the question my wife and I are pondering as we save for college.

I have to remove Syracuse from the equation because I'm too much of a proud alum and emotionally attached to be rational about it. But it seems to me that, generally speaking, it'd be hard to justify forking over 3X the money for a kid to go to a "non elite" private school over an equally good public school.

I mean if my kids have the good fortune to get into an Ivy, Stanford, Carnegie Mellon, etc., then I'd move heaven and earth to fund it. But it's increasingly difficult to see the value in someone going to, say, a Fairfield University (in my town) over a UConn.

lots of price discrimination

people pay premiums for private schools but not as big a premium as the sticker price would suggest

whatever a state school costs, i'll pay that, if kids wanna top that off on their own with scholarships, loans, go for it

 

[SmilinBob]

I was a Public Relations major and then did Poli Sci as my co-major and got to two minors in Public Communications and International Relations because you could count a lot of Poli Sci classes with the IR curriculum as long as you took the language classes. Medill is a good school but I thought Newhouse was better and the previous Dean at Newhouse Dean Rubin was the best leader I have met he wrote me a great letter of recommendation for law school. I got into Boston College, Georgetown, Notre Dame denied at my top two of Yale and Harvard or I would be the named donor of IPF if I was making that type of money.

edit: BTW if your youngest gets into Harvard and I am sure its very possible just know if your family income is below a certain threshold Harvard doesn't charge that student tuition because of how huge their endowment is. I believe if the family income is below 100k a year tuition is free. If its between 100k and 200k its reduced so your youngest may save you some money after paying for two previous children for two years.

Thanks Alsacs. She loves Chicago and felt at home at medill. I thought for sure she'd be a lawyer since she's fought me since day 1!

Harvard is the goal as we went over that a few days ago...I have a few years until then as she's only 3 (kidding). Thanks again for the info.

 

[mscanlo]

I don't put too much stock into this. It's all based on whether a school participates, for starters. My college doesn't participate, for example, so we've gone down over the last few years. Not a coincidence.

if you don't mind sharing, what school did you go to and what do you mean your school doesn't participate?

 

[Millhouse]

Bingo.

I don't even have kids yet, but wife went to good ol RU, and we live in RU's backyard. I could throw a rock and hit RU campus. Why on earth would i spend $57k to send my kid to SU when RU could be had for $25k. Sidenote, i cannot believe it costs almost 60k to go to SU. That is crazy. Especially for a school ranked 60 something.

Its a shame, i cant justify the cost. 60k for elite school, yes. 60k for non newhouse SU, no way.

how many people pay for all of any kids school?

your kid would take loans

which are subsidized, which means they can buy a lot more private school than they otherwise would

if we stopped subsidizing loans, sticker prices would come down, kids would end up paying the same amount in higher interest but the money would go back to the lenders (us) and not the schools.

a 25k premium at 5% ends up with the same yearly payment as a 15k premium at 10% if i did the math right.

high sticker price grabs money from rich people and allows colleges to capture the subsidy to everyone else...

 

[orangeinjersey]

how many people pay for all of any kids school?

your kid would take loans

which are subsidized, which means they can buy a lot more private school than they otherwise would

if we stopped subsidizing loans, sticker prices would come down, kids would end up paying the same amount in higher interest but the money would go back to the lenders (us) and not the schools.

a 25k premium at 5% ends up with the same yearly payment as a 15k premium at 10% if i did the math right.

high sticker price grabs money from rich people and allows colleges to capture the subsidy to everyone else...

When I applied to SU, they did give me schollies and grants that probably made up 50% of the tuition and fees. Both my folks, god bless them, made peanuts, factory workers. I took out loans for the difference.

Back to now, me and my wife make a real good living. I can not fathom getting any type of that kind of financial aid for any of our kids. We simply make too much money. That being said, we are both saddled with student loan debt. I am STILL paying 10 years later, and will for another 10 years.

You're right, even with SU being the priciest of all the schools I was accepted too, it was still cheaper for me to go there than anywhere else when all was said and done. However, if my kid could go to good ol state U and come out with ZERO debt (with my help) or go to SU and come out with massive debt (also with my help), the choice is easy. Im not sure the SU degree (non newhouse) warrants the delta in costs.

 

[longtimefan]

That's what happens when you have a chancellor like Cantor who's more interested in diversity and her own pet projects than the overall standing of the university. The university has become less selective and rather than focusing on its strengths, has been on wild goose chases like the connective corridor.

Lots to discuss here. But, we need to start from an accurate premise. The newest ratings have weighted the 16 factors differently than in the past. I don't know exactly what the various weightings are, but according to Robert J Morse, who is in charge of the annual US News ratings, this year there was a greater emphasis on graduation and retention rates and less emphasis on selectivity in admissions.

Which suggest several questions, such as "What is the time frame used to determine graduation?" If a student graduates in 5 years, is that considered a plus, but 6 years is a negative?

I guess my point is, there is a lot of gray area in assessing the validity of any such rating system. And, yes, the appearance of back-sliding is not a good thing. And I know that SU probably needs to play the ratings game. But not all top academic institutions do (for some reason, Amherst seems to stick in my mind).

I hope that SU's ratings go up. But I hope more that the university turns out more better-educated students moving forward.

 

[Millhouse]

When I applied to SU, they did give me schollies and grants that probably made up 50% of the tuition and fees. Both my folks, god bless them, made peanuts, factory workers. I took out loans for the difference.

Back to now, me and my wife make a real good living. I can not fathom getting any type of that kind of financial aid for any of our kids. We simply make too much money. That being said, we are both saddled with student loan debt. I am STILL paying 10 years later, and will for another 10 years.

You're right, even with SU being the priciest of all the schools I was accepted too, it was still cheaper for me to go there than anywhere else when all was said and done. However, if my kid could go to good ol state U and come out with ZERO debt (with my help) or go to SU and come out with massive debt (also with my help), the choice is easy. Im not sure the SU degree (non newhouse) warrants the delta in costs.

subsidizing debt just shifts interest to principal, that's collected by the school up front.

my own "massive" debt doesn't really cost so much because the interest is so low.

but people like to talk about omg i have 60k in loans (that i pay over 30 years at a crazy low interest rate thanks to tax payers)

if it were only 30 and we paid the unsubsidized interest, we'd still have the same payment but people wouldn't be able to say OMG 60K!

the sticker price is inflated to soak rich people with marginal students and the nominal amount of loans is inflated over the real amount

my parents made too much to bother with applying financial aid but i didn't pay the sticker price - schools still compete for decent students

 

[AZOrange]

Which is why we need the next Chancellor to cut spending as much as possible without cutting jobs and letting fewer students and become more selective. Some of the property this Chancellor spend millions of dollars on isn't going to help the academic profile IMO.

Cutting spending without cutting jobs all while letting fewer students in?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - http://tapatalk.com/m/