OT: 2014 U.S. News & World Report rankings (ACC) | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com

OT: 2014 U.S. News & World Report rankings (ACC)

subsidizing debt just shifts interest to principal, that's collected by the school up front.

my own "massive" debt doesn't really cost so much because the interest is so low.

but people like to talk about omg i have 60k in loans (that i pay over 30 years at a crazy low interest rate thanks to tax payers)

if it were only 30 and we paid the unsubsidized interest, we'd still have the same payment but people wouldn't be able to say OMG 60K!

the sticker price is inflated to soak rich people with marginal students and the nominal amount of loans is inflated over the real amount

my parents made too much to bother with applying financial aid but i didn't pay the sticker price - schools still compete for decent students

Aren't most student loans for 10 year terms, not 30?

I get the math of what you're saying, but in real dollars to the student and then young adult, paying $500/month from age 22 to 32 is not an insignificant burden.

I also suspect that a lot of degrees at good-but-not-elite private schools don't propel you into a higher paying job than the same major at a similarly regarded public school.
 
Lots to discuss here. But, we need to start from an accurate premise. The newest ratings have weighted the 16 factors differently than in the past. I don't know exactly what the various weightings are, but according to Robert J Morse, who is in charge of the annual US News ratings, this year there was a greater emphasis on graduation and retention rates and less emphasis on selectivity in admissions.

Damn you Fab Melo.
 
Cutting spending without cutting jobs all while letting fewer students in?


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If you have no idea what you are talking about my advice is not sound like you do. When I was a student I was on the student advisory board to Chancellor Cantor. One of my best friends was Chancellor Cantor's daughter host while she visited her parents at SU. I was at Chancellor Cantor's daughter's birthday party at SU while her daughter was a student at Wisconsin. Chancellor Cantor during my years submitted inquiries into students thought on property in the city that she wanted to purchase. Even though my committee had no checks and balances power like the BoT did we told her that a lot of her spending wasn't in the best interests of the students. Chan. Cantor in her opinion went through with these purchases and the BoT okayed them as they were at the beginning of her time as Chancellor. IMO, as a result, to increase revenue Chancellor Cantor allowed admission to admit more students to make up the money we had to raise for her spending. Chancellor Cantor has spent a lot of unnecessary money with little return. You want to this into a conservative vs liberal thing which I have no interest engaging in. The next Chancellor can scale back spending without cutting jobs.
 
Aren't most student loans for 10 year terms, not 30?

I get the math of what you're saying, but in real dollars to the student and then young adult, paying $500/month from age 22 to 32 is not an insignificant burden.

I also suspect that a lot of degrees at good-but-not-elite private schools don't propel you into a higher paying job than the same major at a similarly regarded public school.
It's not a burden compared to the alternative if your degree is useful. I think the terrible useless majors are more scandalous than loans. Schools know better than to offer worthless paper like all these blank studies majors

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i did not go to SU, and i know people are caught up in rankings, but at the end of the day, the education you got did not deteriorate because SU slid down 10 spots, or however may spots they slid. i know it is easy to get caught up in the rankings, and it might persuade some potential students to choose one school after another and thus have impact on getting the best and brightest kids to your school, but at the end of the day, outside the top 20-30, the rankings really don't matter. your education is still what it is. if some potential recruiter/company/school biased for/against your school because it is 60 rather than 48, it would be very naive.

also, in terms of overspending, i went to a school that literally does not stop building. i have never not seen a crane on the campus. i actually believe the school tore down a building that was a couple years old, only to build another one in it's place.

i'm not saying i agree with the spending, but it is an arms race to attract the best students, donors to build up the endowment, etc.

in terms of price of the education, i don't necessarily agree with the the tuition increases, and probably will be complaining a lot more when i have kids ready fro school (i believe i read somewhere that tuition prices have increased 10%+ every year, even in the recession, which outpaces a lot of things ie. wages,). however, the tuition price is part of the marketing package. if syracuse, being a private school, cut their tuition to $25k a year, a lot of people would think (again, think marketing perception here) the education itself was inferior since duke, harvard, princeton, and other top schools charge $55k+, and thus a lot of people would be turned off by syracuse's inferior tuition equates to inferior education.
 
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If you have no idea what you are talking about my advice is not sound like you do. When I was a student I was on the student advisory board to Chancellor Cantor. One of my best friends was Chancellor Cantor's daughter host while she visited her parents at SU. I was at Chancellor Cantor's daughter's birthday party at SU while her daughter was a student at Wisconsin. Chancellor Cantor during my years submitted inquiries into students thought on property in the city that she wanted to purchase. Even though my committee had no checks and balances power like the BoT did we told her that a lot of her spending wasn't in the best interests of the students. Chan. Cantor in her opinion went through with these purchases and the BoT okayed them as they were at the beginning of her time as Chancellor. IMO, as a result, to increase revenue Chancellor Cantor allowed admission to admit more students to make up the money we had to raise for her spending. Chancellor Cantor has spent a lot of unnecessary money with little return. You want to this into a conservative vs liberal thing which I have no interest engaging in. The next Chancellor can scale back spending without cutting jobs.
I engaged in no such debate. Honestly I could care less your political leanings, nor about whatever connections you are attempting to establish, nor whatever your self proclaimed importance is to decision making at SU. You make trivial statements like she spent a lot of money on things with little return. She spent about 500 million of that on building upgrades and/or new buildings while concurrently increasing the student population about 25 percent or so. She runs a business. She spends money to make more money. It's really simple stuff. you sound like a disgruntled recent grad with a bone to pick.

Meanwhile you seem to miss all the good that happened on her watch.

Ideas like "cutting spending, without cutting jobs, while letting fewer students in" was funny though. Good luck with your BOT run.
 
Somebody call US News and ask for a recount.
What's the point? I mean wasn't one of your issues that GPAs fell? Did they actually? I mean if we're going to debate such important things such as US News rankings shouldn't we operate from the same set of facts?

I mean lets assume that the Syracuse.com article is correct...that incoming GPAs rose under her tenure, that sats were off 20 points...what else led to the decline? Grad rate? Job placements? I mean if our admission standards are pretty similar and we increased student body 25 percent are we being penalized for allowing more students in?

We have to know what led to the decline before you start hoping to fix issues.
 
Aren't most student loans for 10 year terms, not 30?

I get the math of what you're saying, but in real dollars to the student and then young adult, paying $500/month from age 22 to 32 is not an insignificant burden.

I also suspect that a lot of degrees at good-but-not-elite private schools don't propel you into a higher paying job than the same major at a similarly regarded public school.
There are lots of payment options, but using SUs average fed student loan debt of 24,300, and rate of 6.8 percent, payments over 10 years is 278 a month. The killer is grad school.
 
National Universities

Duke - 7
*Notre Dame - 18
Virginia - 22
Wake - 23
Carolina - 30
BC - 31
Miami - 47
Syracuse - 62
Clemson - 62
Pitt - 62
*Maryland - 62
Va Tech - 69
FSU - 91
NC State - 101
*Louisville - 161

Here's an interesting graphic showing how the ACC wants to promote this.

https://platform-secure.silverchali...849aa?apiKey=5ecca13245515009be26f8c9241f2ea9

Kudos to FSU for getting up to 91. They have improved quite a bit since being in the ACC. Hopefully Louisville will do the same. They have significant room for improvement.
 
It's not a burden compared to the alternative if your degree is useful. I think the terrible useless majors are more scandalous than loans. Schools know better than to offer worthless paper like all these blank studies majors

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Well, that's my point. There has to be a value judgment about whether taking on, say, $500/month in debt to go to a private school is worth it when someone may be able to take on much less, or no debt, going to a comparable public school.

That's all I'm saying.
 
I engaged in no such debate. Honestly I could care less your political leanings, nor about whatever connections you are attempting to establish, nor whatever your self proclaimed importance is to decision making at SU. You make trivial statements like she spent a lot of money on things with little return. She spent about 500 million of that on building upgrades and/or new buildings while concurrently increasing the student population about 25 percent or so. She runs a business. She spends money to make more money. It's really simple stuff. you sound like a disgruntled recent grad with a bone to pick.

Meanwhile you seem to miss all the good that happened on her watch.

Ideas like "cutting spending, without cutting jobs, while letting fewer students in" was funny though. Good luck with your BOT run.
I believe when you say it now you weren't trying to turn this into a political issue, and apologize as I misinterpreted that statement, but Chancellor Cantor spent a lot of money duriing her time and I don't feel a lot of that spending helped Syracuse academically. She let in 25% more students which brought in a lot of new revenue to the University but made our acceptance percentage go up a lot and we became less selective. Syracuse isn't going to be a top 25 academic university but their is no business for our university to be outside of the top 50. I am not a disgruntled recent graduate I graduated from the University I donate to the Newhouse each year but I was never a fan of this Chancellor after having personal meetings with her. I would like hear all the good you think happened on her watch academically. Athletically moving to the ACC was done by the AD and not by the Chancellor. Newhouse 3 was going to happen to with or without her. Dean Steinberg gets hired at Maxwell without her presence as he accepted that job after she announced she wasn't returning. The new law school is all I can think of and I give more credit Dean Robin Paul Malloy for pushing that project. I would love to hear the academic accomplishments of Chancellor Cantor I call it the way I see it. She was a nice woman who treated me well, but I wasn't fan of her performance. She represented Syracuse University in a classy manner and worked hard but I don't her performance was good and the fact she is gone after 8 years without retiring says it all.
 
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One of the complaints from people at SU about Nancy is that a lot of "student-centered" positions have not been filled as people leave, salaries have been slow to increase, yet she found a way to hire a number of extra senior-level administrators. If you talk to people who work at SU, it seems as though a lot of good people have left during her time, and as a direct result of her leadership.

As a CNY resident, I think she was right to strengthen connections between SU and the city of Syracuse. As an alum, I appreciate her commitment to providing opportunities for a diverse student body, but I think it was time for someone new to take over.
 
Syracuse isn't going to be a top 25 academic university but their is no business for our university to be outside of the top 50.
What do you perceive are the benefits to be of being 50 vs 62? Your education is still the same.
 
What do you perceive are the benefits to be of being 50 vs 62? Your education is still the same.
I like to humble brag with my friends and seeing our University sliding isn't something I like. Even though I went to Newhouse I had plenty of friends at the school who didn't I like the perception of our University to be as high as it can be to attract the best and the brightest to Syracuse University. If we weren't constantly sliding down in the ranking during Chancellor Cantor's tenure I would care a little less, but we have gone from 51 to 62 in 6 years which is not good. My education is great and helped me greatly and for that I am proud of my University but if you have don't have high expectations then what is the point. The one thing I always remember from Syracuse was what Prof. Charlotte Grimes taught my class "Don't settle for mediocrity" and that is exactly what I am saying why we shouldn't be happy if we are consistently sliding down. I don't like being mediocre and hope we can get back to the 40s and get even higher.
 
I like to humble brag with my friends and seeing our University sliding isn't something I like. Even though I went to Newhouse I had plenty of friends at the school who didn't I like the perception of our University to be as high as it can be to attract the best and the brightest to Syracuse University. If we weren't constantly sliding down in the ranking during Chancellor Cantor's tenure I would care a little less, but we have gone from 51 to 62 in 6 years which is not good. My education is great and helped me greatly and for that I am proud of my University but if you have don't have high expectations then what is the point. The one thing I always remember from Syracuse was what Prof. Charlotte Grimes taught my class "Don't settle for mediocrity" and that is exactly what I am saying why we shouldn't be happy if we are consistently sliding down. I don't like being mediocre and hope we can get back to the 40s and get even higher.
there's the top 10, maybe top 20, and there's the rest. you probably couldn't even name me all the top 10/20 universities on the list without looking. again, i understand it's fun to brag to your friends, and to some degree, it does have a marketing impact, but at the end of the day, don't get bent out of shape about it. my school took a 100%+ dive in rankings over 8 year period (heck, i think it was over a 3 year period). it would be nice to improve and get back to where we were, but if you look at the methodology, you will see have fluffy some of it is.
 
there's the top 10, maybe top 20, and there's the rest. you probably couldn't even name me all the top 10/20 universities on the list without looking. again, i understand it's fun to brag to your friends, and to some degree, it does have a marketing impact, but at the end of the day, don't get bent out of shape about it. my school took a 100%+ dive in rankings over 8 year period (heck, i think it was over a 3 year period). it would be nice to improve and get back to where we were, but if you look at the methodology, you will see have fluffy some of it is.
Without looking
Harvard
Princeton
Yale
Stanford
Chicago
Penn
MIT
Northwestern
Duke
Dartmouth

would be my top 10 if I had to guess without looking. It matters to me and the reason we have fallen can be corrected what the is the problem with expecting the problems to be corrected and get back to where we were. If the rankings don't matter let's make SU a public school and lower tuition and settle for mediocrity. I take pride in SU and want to be as high as possible and not settle for consistently sliding.
 

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