OT: Anyone else notice how bad the Knicks still are...

[jr4750]

granted it's early, but I am not sold on them being able to play into the second round with this current group. Hopefully BD helps them, but all they have on the floor typically are shooters, with one post defender who has been a little off so far this year. A lack of a PG is killing them. Both AS and Melo are not able to make others around them better players on average, especially Melo. It's disheartening as a fan of his to see him play horrible defense, (HORRIBLE) and then shoot a deep three, on the back end of a lazy play. Because they are having him run the offense, he is not playing in the post where he can grab offensive rebounds and get to the line more efficiently. They just seem like a cluster%$#* of talent right now... However, its only three games into a shortened season! Nonetheless, something needs to change. They have gotten killed two days in a row, and have looked outclassed by teams they should compete with.

 

[SaintTristan]

Knicks still suck. Not a single player on that roster makes anyone else better. No defense.

Meanwhile, Miami is incredible.

 

[Orangezoo]

i watched the game last night and saw a lot more amare pressing ( same in gsw fame) by taking bad shots. melo had at least 4 assists uncredited due to poor finishing. amares on ball defense is horrible . melo took a couple plays off but for the most part the effort was there and he was moving the ball in the passing lanes on d. Amare needs to be at 45 percent with the midrange shot if its to be succesful. knicks should have dangled amare for cp3 and found some d and rebounding at the 4 with novak as well. Amare shouldnt be getting 16 mil a yr if he needs an expensive pg to get him in rhthymn

 

[orangepassion]

2 things stick out to me:
1)Team has no PG to penetrate and get them easy shots.
2) Amare looks like a different player (not in a good way) from last year. As a matter of fact, he hasn't been the same player since they got Melo and kind of brushed him aside.

 

[jordoo]

They really should have traded Amari for Paul IMO. With Melo, Paul and Chandler you have 3 guys who could work very well together on offense. Amari is kind of lost in the mix in that offense with no PG and a bail out player like Melo already in place.

 

[BlackSquirrels]

Orangezoo and jordoo, perhaps I'm misinterpreting your posts, but you're both making it sound like a deal centered around Stoudemire for Paul was feasible.

Based on everything that's been reported about Chris Paul trade controversy, I'd have to say the Knicks had zero chance of trading for Paul.

The package that the Hornets received in the original deal that was ultimately rejected by the NBA was better than anything the Knicks could have offered, and this deal was rejected because it contained too many veteran players with long-term contracts. Do you think the NBA would have allowed the Hornets to acquire Stoudemire's long-term deal? No way.

Also, the package the Clippers ended up giving to the Hornets (Eric Gordon, Minnesota's 1st round pick, additional young players) is way more attractive than anything the Knicks could have given them.

 

[orangepassion]

I wonder if Orlando would trade Howard for Amare, who's from Orlando. I would even expand the trade and throw in Tyson Chandler if I had to..

 

[Knicks411]

Amare needs to stop thinking he is a guy who can run iso's and score. Pretty much any time he dribbles more than 2 times, something bad is going to happen.

They desperately need a PG so they can involve Amare in the pick and roll game. He's the best dive man in the league, and they never run pnr. He isn't like Melo, you can't give Amare the ball 18 feet from the basket and expect him to take his man one on one.

And yes, it would've been great for the Knicks to trade Amare for Paul, but I don't think that was feasible.

 

[MikeSU02]

Amare needs to stop thinking he is a guy who can run iso's and score. Pretty much any time he dribbles more than 2 times, something bad is going to happen.

They desperately need a PG so they can involve Amare in the pick and roll game. He's the best dive man in the league, and they never run pnr. He isn't like Melo, you can't give Amare the ball 18 feet from the basket and expect him to take his man one on one.

And yes, it would've been great for the Knicks to trade Amare for Paul, but I don't think that was feasible.

Agreed, if they aren't going to use Amare for a pick and roll game, they should trade him. They need guard help. If Phoenix does a fire sale, they should go after Nash and just try to outscore everyone.

 

[MikeSU02]

Knicks still suck. Not a single player on that roster makes anyone else better. No defense.

Meanwhile, Miami is incredible.

I root against Miami, but they are fun to watch play basketball.

Also, if anyone says the NBA is worse than watching college, turn on a Miami game. They are coming together and playing unreal basketball. Their transition offense is arguably better than the Showtime Lakers. Right now there isn't basketball being played anywhere on the planet that is better than the show the Heat are putting on.

 

[Orangezoo]

I am indeed fully aware the proposed Amare for Paul was not feasible due to the insurance issue. It appeared this wasn't a full blown attempt to trade up Amare for CP3 but merely a test of of the waters. The lack of insurance on Amares deal is a major issue for a league owned team. Right now however Amare is forcing the issue. I don't think the problem is so much that this group can't work together as it is Amare is set to get his points in the mid range game without using the pick and roll. Amare was putting huge numbers before because the MDA pnr system employs a lot of shooters to spread the floor and a quick PG to run the PNR with Amare. Nash happened to be more than than.. but also a real leader and true PG. Felton was a good guy for the system and not much else.

This year.. the problem with running the PNR play with Amare is not that its not a good play.. but more that if thats the primary way you get high quality production from one of your max players.. that player is not a max player. Amare is showing is limitations and honestly so is MDA. The best part of MDA's system is ball movement.. but if its all predicated on moving it to an open shooter or playing the PNR vs going inside out you have a problem. The knicks have really only Melo, Landry and when the lane is Free Amare who can successfully attack the hoop right now. Douglas is iffy in this regard...and honestly expendable. I think the knicks are in a tough spot right now. They need to develop shumpert. They need to give more minutes to Harrelson when Amare is brick city. Too much thinking they had what they needed (outside of Chandler) left them with major issues. Chauncey wasn't the answer either. They looked best last night with Fields, Melo, Novak and Chandler in there.. with one of the PG's. Need to get Lin some run... he can run the offense and is not such a big disadvantage sizewise.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I turned the game off.
Theres nothing I hate more, in any sport, then when a team doesn't play defense. The Knicks giving up lay-up after lay-up are unwatchable to me.
I don't think DAntoni is the right coach for them- he seems very limited in his defensive philosophy.
NY Knicks basketball, like NY Giants football, is traditionally about gritty defense that stops the opponent cold! Its not in my DNA to watch the Knicks try to outscore people!
Fire DAntoni! :bang:

 

[Orangezoo]

The defense isnt good.. but honestly... you cant shoot 30 percent and not give LA runout after runout or 2v2 3v2 etc. MDA is at a loss without a PNR PG.. which is a shame he is that one dimensional.

 

[Knicks411]

If Phoenix does a fire sale, they should go after Nash and just try to outscore everyone.

Nash is a FA after the season, wouldn't be surprised to see him here for the mid level.

As scary as it sounds, we really need Baron back.

 

[MikeSU02]

Nash is a FA after the season, wouldn't be surprised to see him here for the mid level.

As scary as it sounds, we really need Baron back.

Totally agree about Baron. Also need to get everyone healthy.

 

[orangepassion]

Amare was excellent last year pre-Carmelo. They just haven't been able to play well together..Time will tell if they will in the future.

 

[suthrills]

Amare is a bad defender, bad rebounder and not an effecient offensive player- he's far from a superstar.
The PG play is amatuerish.
Carmelo can't carry a team alone.
They play the worst defense in the NBA- their switches are terrible and they look confused.
They will be lucky to sniff the 2nd round, unless BD proves to be a superstar upon his return which is HIGHLY unlikely.

 

[Knicks411]

Amare is a bad defender, bad rebounder and not an effecient offensive player- he's far from a superstar.

Agree, agree, disagree. Amare has been a supremely efficient player. Amare in Phoenix was one of the most efficient power forwards ever. Of course Nash may have had something to do with that. But last year, he had a 56.5 true shooting. Still very efficient.

 

[SaintTristan]

I root against Miami, but they are fun to watch play basketball.

Also, if anyone says the NBA is worse than watching college, turn on a Miami game. They are coming together and playing unreal basketball. Their transition offense is arguably better than the Showtime Lakers. Right now there isn't basketball being played anywhere on the planet that is better than the show the Heat are putting on.

NBA sucks. Miami is the exception.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Melo again stuck with a horrible supporting cast. The guy is Superman, but he needs help.

 

[longislandcuse]

Melo again stuck with a horrible supporting cast. The guy is Superman, but he needs help.

Melo doesnt have a horrible supporting cast. Melo/Amare/Chandler should be a dominant front line. They just have no idea how to play with each other yet and their coach has no idea how to use them. Im down on this team big time right now but lets wait to see if they can gel and hope they stay above water until they get Iman and Baron back so they can have real guards running the offense not the two talentless clowns in TD and Fields.

Biggest problem is the joke of a backcourt they have out there right now and there even bigger joke of a coach.

 

[MikeSU02]

Melo doesnt have a horrible supporting cast. Melo/Amare/Chandler should be a dominant front line. They just have no idea how to play with each other yet and their coach has no idea how to use them. Im down on this team big time right now but lets wait to see if they can gel and hope they stay above water until they get Iman and Baron back so they can have real guards running the offense not the two talentless clowns in TD and Fields.

Biggest problem is the joke of a backcourt they have out there right now and there even bigger joke of a coach.

They should package Amare once they get him a bionic knee and Tyson Chandler and get D12 and Jameer Nelson and throw in Toney Douglass or Iman Shumpert.

 

[newmexicuse]

Knick team is very decimated right now w Davis, Shumpert, & Jeffries on the bench.

Also, good chance they pickup Martin later on. Martin would add badly needed toughness & D off the bench. Right now, no tough players off the bench.

Biggest key is obviously if Davis can come back healthy & be 80% of the player he was.

Add those four players & the Knicks become a different team.

The team now has no direction, a weak starting backcourt, and no bench whatsoever. The big three can't overcome all of that. Douglas would be a good sixth man - a starter he isn't.

Key for this season is simply for them to stay afloat for the time being. If they can stay around .500 until Davis arrives & Shumpert returns then we may well see a very different squad.

 

[longislandcuse]

Knick team is very decimated right now w Davis, Shumpert, & Jeffries on the bench.

Also, good chance they pickup Martin later on. Martin would add badly needed toughness & D off the bench. Right now, no tough players off the bench.

Biggest key is obviously if Davis can come back healthy & be 80% of the player he was.

Add those four players & the Knicks become a different team.

The team now has no direction, a weak starting backcourt, and no bench whatsoever. The big three can't overcome all of that. Douglas would be a good sixth man - a starter he isn't.

Key for this season is simply for them to stay afloat for the time being. If they can stay around .500 until Davis arrives & Shumpert returns then we may well see a very different squad.

Agree totally.

Baron Davis-Toney Douglas-Mike Bibby
Iman Shumpert-Landry Fields-Bill Walker
Melo-Novak-Bill Walker
Amare-K-Mart-Harrellson
Chandler-Jeffries-Harrellson

If that team *if healthy, isnt able to advance far into the playoffs then something is rotten in Denmark. That is a friggin good team. It does seem from all accounts that the Knicks are holding that 2.5 mil for K-Mart.

 

[SaintTristan]

The knicks suck. its a poorly conceived team. Here is the issue with melo:

Melo is a very good player, top 20 in the NBA. He sells tickets and will make highlight reels. He is an all-star and will help any team exceed in the playoffs. So this is all very good. but he will never be part of a championship team. he makes no one better and is useless when the ball is not in his hands.

So its a big issue. Do you keep melo and be satisfied that he helps secure sellouts and will guarantee a little run in the playoffs? or do you want to win championships?