OT can Kyle Orton be a player coach?

[Alsacs]

This Pats fans thoroughly disagrees.

Gronkowski, Edelman, Ridley, and Vereen are not "mediocre" by any definition, and they see the majority of touches each game.

The OL has really jelled the past 2 weeks, and gave Brady crazy time to throw in the 2nd half.

While everyone screams about BB not paying big bucks for a WR, instead every year he uses that kind of money to build tremendous depth. That way the team keeps chugging along even when they lose their #1 RB and #1 LB.

Thus I don't buy that point about talent. 1-53 the Pats have a better roster, and that's why they won.

Gronk is not 100% and yesterday was the first game he played 75% of the snaps according to Mike Reiss.

Edelman is a slot WR who is good in our system, but not a top 20 WR in the NFL. Ridley is a dime a dozen RB, Vereen is a good pass catcher 3rd down back. The weapons Brady has in context to the rest of the NFL would be in the bottom half. If Gronk were healthy he would be the only player you have to gameplan to stop.

Belichick hasn't done well in putting WRs on this roster. Since Moss, Welker its been mediocre. The Pats have 13 million under the cap(5 of that 13 came from the Mankins trade) Brady needs more weapons. This team is going to win on defense this year. Hopefuly they can replace Mayo and stay healthy.

 

[longislandcuse]

This Pats fans thoroughly disagrees.

Gronkowski, Edelman, Ridley, and Vereen are not "mediocre" by any definition, and they see the majority of touches each game.

The OL has really jelled the past 2 weeks, and gave Brady crazy time to throw in the 2nd half.

While everyone screams about BB not paying big bucks for a WR, instead every year he uses that kind of money to build tremendous depth. That way the team keeps chugging along even when they lose their #1 RB and #1 LB.

Thus I don't buy that point about talent. 1-53 the Pats have a better roster, and that's why they won (*edit* along with BB outcoaching Marrone, but that's a given).

Your OL must have really jelled at halftime. Our Defensive Line, who has dominated everyone this year including you in the first half literally couldn't do anything in the second half. Miraculously, Gronk and Edelman were always wide open as well, in the 2nd half. Now some of this was due to great playcalling and our best safety being out but the two offenses were officiated differently in the second half. I don't buy that Buffalo's defense who has been so dominant over 5 1/2 games became utterly incompetent after halftime.

 

[Millhouse]

I am surprised you didn't bring up the last 14 seconds of the first half. Down 10-7 from your 31 you take a knee and come out for the second half. Instead he has Spiller get garbage yards and he fumbles giving New England a free 3 points going into halftime.

it was the only time damien spiller didn't run straight for the sidelines. baby steps.

 

[Scooch]

Your OL must have really jelled at halftime. Our Defensive Line, who has dominated everyone this year including you in the first half literally couldn't do anything in the second half. Miraculously, Gronk and Edelman were always wide open as well, in the 2nd half. Now some of this was due to great playcalling and our best safety being out but the two offenses were officiated differently in the second half. I don't buy that Buffalo's defense who has been so dominant over 5 1/2 games became utterly incompetent after halftime.

Has there ever been fans of a losing team that didn't blame the refs in some way?

 

[longislandcuse]

Has there ever been fans of a losing team that didn't blame the refs in some way?

Didnt lose to Houston because refs. Didnt lose to San Diego because of refs.

Didnt lose to NE because of refs, the 3 turnovers in the first half precludes me from making that statement, however when I have to see 6-7 plays over the course of the second half, all go against Buffalo, all questioned by the announcers. Yea, I have a problem with it.

Here's a gem for you to check out if you'd like..

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-s...parently-slapping-own-teammate-214916390.html

 

[Scooch]

Gronk is not 100% and yesterday was the first game he played 75% of the snaps according to Mike Reiss.

Edelman is a slot WR who is good in our system, but not a top 20 WR in the NFL. Ridley is a dime a dozen RB, Vereen is a good pass catcher 3rd down back. The weapons Brady has in context to the rest of the NFL would be in the bottom half. If Gronk were healthy he would be the only player you have to gameplan to stop.

Belichick hasn't done well in putting WRs on this roster. Since Moss, Welker its been mediocre. The Pats have 13 million under the cap(5 of that 13 came from the Mankins trade) Brady needs more weapons. This team is going to win on defense this year. Hopefuly they can replace Mayo and stay healthy.

I'm pretty sure that's not entirely true. The cap is complex and I've read that the Pats really aren't "under" it to that degree when everything is factored in.

That being said, in a cap league you have to make choices about where you spend money. The Pats have invested in the defensive side of the ball. You can't spend everywhere. The teams that won SB's had guys like Troy Brown as their leading receiver and Antoine Smith as their lead RB. A good OL and a healthy Brady enhances the skill guys "talent".

Also, Brady gets counted as part of the talent. Are there 5 players in the league you have to gameplan more to stop?

 

[Scooch]

Didnt lose to Houston because refs. Didnt lose to San Diego because of refs.

Didnt lose to NE because of refs, the 3 turnovers in the first half precludes me from making that statement, however when I have to see 6-7 plays over the course of the second half, all go against Buffalo, all questioned by the announcers. Yea, I have a problem with it.

Here's a gem for you to check out if you'd like..

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-s...parently-slapping-own-teammate-214916390.html

There's bad calls in every game.

Honestly, I can't remember the last time the Pats won and the opposing fans weren't adamant that it was because of bad calls. Whatever.

 

[Orangeman]

I am surprised you didn't bring up the last 14 seconds of the first half. Down 10-7 from your 31 you take a knee and come out for the second half. Instead he has Spiller get garbage yards and he fumbles giving New England a free 3 points going into halftime.

The second-worst Bills coaching effort in the last 14 seconds was "allowing" the WR to get 7 free yards on the sideline and stop the clock. I have to ask again, are football coaches that dumb? Let them have a 27 yarder over the middle, tackle him, half over...

The only counter-argument is the potential for a dumb penalty, which the Bills would be dumb enough to commit and the refs only happy to whistle, giving the Pats 20+15 and a chip shot FG.

But just surrending the 7 yards the Pats wanted signals dumb cornerbacking and dumb coaching.

 

[Alsacs]

Your OL must have really jelled at halftime. Our Defensive Line, who has dominated everyone this year including you in the first half literally couldn't do anything in the second half. Miraculously, Gronk and Edelman were always wide open as well, in the 2nd half. Now some of this was due to great playcalling and our best safety being out but the two offenses were officiated differently in the second half. I don't buy that Buffalo's defense who has been so dominant over 5 1/2 games became utterly incompetent after halftime.

Did the refs cause the Bills defense down 8 w/4 minutes stop the Pats from converting a 3rd and 16 and going on to finish the drive with a TD.

The refs weren't the reason the Pats scored 24 points in the 2nd half. The Bills lack of a pass rush was why the Pats moved the ball all 2nd half.

 

[Millhouse]

Has there ever been fans of a losing team that didn't blame the refs in some way?

conversely, has there ever been fans of a winning team that did thank the refs in some way?

fans are biased in both directions but officiating matters.

 

[Alsacs]

Didnt lose to Houston because refs. Didnt lose to San Diego because of refs.

Didnt lose to NE because of refs, the 3 turnovers in the first half precludes me from making that statement, however when I have to see 6-7 plays over the course of the second half, all go against Buffalo, all questioned by the announcers. Yea, I have a problem with it.

Here's a gem for you to check out if you'd like..

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-s...parently-slapping-own-teammate-214916390.html

Bills gameplan was atrocious. Their may have been some bad calls, but the Patriots were the better team on the field yesterday. Maybe not 15 points better but honestly I never thought after 20-7 the game wasn't a Pats win. Those calls you claiming mostly came after 20-7.

 

[longislandcuse]

There's bad calls in every game.

Honestly, I can't remember the last time the Pats won and the opposing fans weren't adamant that it was because of bad calls. Whatever.

...because Pats get the calls? That's why. Only game i've ever seen the Pats gets shafted was during some of the Cincy game.

-Hughes 15 yard penalty on a 3rd and 1 stop for congratulating his teammate.
-Defensive PI on Gronk that gave Pats 3 points. Was not PI. Announcers disagree with call.
-Offensive PI on Watkins where Woods gains 30-40 yards. Watkins did nothing to warrant a flag. Announcers disagree with call.
-Offensive PI on Woods, no contact worthy of PI. Announcers disagree with call.
-Edelman push off on 2nd and 15 for 20 yard gain with the score 30-22. No flag. Replay shows push off.
-Gronk push off on 3rd and 15 for 17 yards with the score 30-22. No flag. Replay shows push off.

Can you name one penalty or non-call that didn't go the Pats way? I'm being serious with this question.

 

[longislandcuse]

Bills gameplan was atrocious. Their may have been some bad calls, but the Patriots were the better team on the field yesterday. Maybe not 15 points better but honestly I never thought after 20-7 the game wasn't a Pats win. Those calls you claiming mostly came after 20-7.

Agree on the gameplan and the Pats were +3 turnovers, so Buffalo didn't have any business winning that game but we answered right after NE went up 20-7 to make it 20-14. From then on, we were never given a shot with the way the refs officiated.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Did the refs cause the Bills defense down 8 w/4 minutes stop the Pats from converting a 3rd and 16 and going on to finish the drive with a TD.

The refs weren't the reason the Pats scored 24 points in the 2nd half. The Bills lack of a pass rush was why the Pats moved the ball all 2nd half.

I love this. The answer to that is no. Now what?

The point is, from what I've been told, and from what I saw (didn't see the entire game), there were some terrible calls that were NOT consistent both ways, and some that just made downright no sense. That's a fact. Would it have affected the outcome in terms of W/L? It's impossible to know. But it absolutely affected how that final outcome would have occurred. There's strange calls, and then there's unsportsmanlike penalties for slapping your teammate.

The Bills were not good on defense, fact. The referees made some ridiculous calls that even the unbiased announcers questioned, fact. They can both occur, believe it or not.

 

[Millhouse]

...because Pats fans get the calls? That's why. Only game i've ever seen the Pats gets shafted was during some of the Cincy game.

-Hughes 15 yard penalty on a 3rd and 1 stop for congratulating his teammate.
-Defensive PI on Gronk that gave Pats 3 points. Was not PI. Announcers disagree with call.
-Offensive PI on Watkins where Woods gains 30-40 yards. Watkins did nothing to warrant a flag. Announcers disagree with call.
-Offensive PI on Woods, no contact worthy of PI. Announcers disagree with call.
-Edelman push off on 2nd and 15 for 20 yard gain with the score 30-22. No flag. Replay shows push off.
-Gronk push off on 3rd and 15 for 17 yards with the score 30-22. No flag. Replay shows push off.

Can you name one penalty or non-call that didn't go the Pats way? I'm being serious with this question.

it seemed like there were a lot of makeup calls in that game. felt like basketball. that 15 yard face mask after the watkins PI was pretty weak, should've only been 5 yards

also that pass interference on duke williams in the end zone shouldn't have been called because it was so brazen

 

[longislandcuse]

Did the refs cause the Bills defense down 8 w/4 minutes stop the Pats from converting a 3rd and 16 and going on to finish the drive with a TD.

The refs weren't the reason the Pats scored 24 points in the 2nd half. The Bills lack of a pass rush was why the Pats moved the ball all 2nd half.

I pointed out how two conversions on that drive occurred after an Edelman push off and Gronk push off which they apparently were calling since we had a drive sabotaged by that (even when it didnt happen). I will give you the lack of pass rush being an issue, Schwartz' reluctance to adapt when his Front 4 isn't getting pressure is aggravating. Saw it against SD and again against NE. Although, it looked like a lot of hands to the face and holding was occurring, however since they didnt call holding on either team, I wont ***** about it too much.

 

[orangenirvana]

Did the refs cause the Bills defense down 8 w/4 minutes stop the Pats from converting a 3rd and 16 and going on to finish the drive with a TD.

The refs weren't the reason the Pats scored 24 points in the 2nd half. The Bills lack of a pass rush was why the Pats moved the ball all 2nd half.

Sheesh - can't Bills fans have their own thread where they can commiserate among themselves without *Pats fans coming in and shoving our noses in the poo we left on the floor? We get it, the refs had no effect on the outcome and the Patriots are wonderful. Bye!

 

[Alsacs]

Sheesh - can't Bills fans have their own thread where they can commiserate amongst themselves without *Pats fans coming in and shoving our noses in the poo we left on the floor? We get it, the refs had no effect on the outcome and the Patriots are wonderful. Bye!

Wow I guess you want to self loathe and not have a discussion okay. My god when people want to blame he refs it is a weak excuse. Milhouse was fair he said there were a lot of inconsistencies and makeup calls. I got a poster who didn't watch game completely and is going on pro-Bills complaints.
When the Pats lost SB 42 it would be like Pats fans complaining Eli Manning was in Adeliius Thomas grasp and wasn't called for a sack. I can name hundreds of bad calls against NE. The idea the refs were the reason Buffalo lost is a loser mindset. The. Bills lost because they didn't make enough plays pure and simple. If you want a Bills fans only thread next time let everyone know.

 

[longislandcuse]

Millhouse talks about make up calls by citing an obvious facemask? How is that a makeup call? The only other penalties were false starts and a blatant holding that could not be ignored or there would have been a riot at RWS.

 

[orangenirvana]

Wow I guess you want to self loathe and not have a discussion okay. My god when people want to blame he refs it is a weak excuse. Milhouse was fair he said there were a lot of inconsistencies and makeup calls. I got a poster who didn't watch game completely and is going on pro-Bills complaints.
When the Pats lost SB 42 it would be like Pats fans complaining Eli Manning was in Adeliius Thomas grasp and wasn't called for a sack. I can name hundreds of bad calls against NE. The idea the refs were the reason Buffalo lost is a loser mindset. The. Bills lost because they didn't make enough plays pure and simple. If you want a Bills fans only thread next time let everyone know.

Oooh! The Patriots fan is telling us loser Bills fans about a loser mindset! Can you tell us more about how to be winners, Mr. Patriots Fan? *grabs notebook and pencil*

 

[Millhouse]

Millhouse talks about make up calls by citing an obvious facemask? How is that a makeup call? The only other penalties were false starts and a blatant holding that could not be ignored or there would have been a riot at RWS.

it should've been a 5 yarder, not a 15 yarder. there were a couple other examples where it felt like a basketball game.

 

[longislandcuse]

it should've been a 5 yarder, not a 15 yarder. there were a couple other examples where it felt like a basketball game.

Didn't they get rid of the 5 yard facemask? Maybe I just never see it called anymore.

I dont know what you mean by the basketball game reference. Every penalty called on NE made sense, the announcers never once had talk about it because it was a blatant false start, the one hold and a facemask where Hogan's head completely torqued.

 

[Scooch]

...because Pats get the calls? That's why. Only game i've ever seen the Pats gets shafted was during some of the Cincy game.

-Hughes 15 yard penalty on a 3rd and 1 stop for congratulating his teammate.
-Defensive PI on Gronk that gave Pats 3 points. Was not PI. Announcers disagree with call.
-Offensive PI on Watkins where Woods gains 30-40 yards. Watkins did nothing to warrant a flag. Announcers disagree with call.
-Offensive PI on Woods, no contact worthy of PI. Announcers disagree with call.
-Edelman push off on 2nd and 15 for 20 yard gain with the score 30-22. No flag. Replay shows push off.
-Gronk push off on 3rd and 15 for 17 yards with the score 30-22. No flag. Replay shows push off.

Can you name one penalty or non-call that didn't go the Pats way? I'm being serious with this question.

I'm not going to bother because it's not a game worth playing, honestly.

If you want to talk about games where the Pats got "shafted" I can point you to the Jets and Panthers games last year. But it's not worth it, NFL games are horribly officiated and every team can point to a number of games each year where they got "shafted". Even the Pats.

 

[BuffOrange]

Marrone had Hughes and Williams on the sideline after his idiotic punt that Coach Orton thankfully overruled. he expected NE to run because that's what a brainless meathead would do despite Brady being unstoppable

This is so true. The WGR afternoon guys have been saying this almost exactly. That possession was coached like they were playing against the '73 Dolphins. Or themselves. God knows the Bills would be terrified to do anything but run into a wall 3 times and happily punt in that spot.
"Gotta trust your defense. Argggh. Captain Caveman!".

 

[Millhouse]

This is so true. The WGR afternoon guys have been saying this almost exactly. That possession was coached like they were playing against the '73 Dolphins. Or themselves. God knows the Bills would be terrified to do anything but run into a wall 3 times and happily punt in that spot.
"Gotta trust your defense. Argggh. Captain Caveman!".

even if you're that concerned about the run, why wouldn't you have mario williams out there?

i couldn't believe what i was seeing on the field.