OT can Kyle Orton be a player coach?

[GoSU96]

Mayo and Ridley out for the year, Buffalo might have lost the battle but still have a shot at winning the war.

After NYJ and Bears they play Denver, @Indy, Detroit, @GB and @SD consecutively. Close with Miami, @ NYJ, Buffalo.

Bills get Cleveland at home instead of Indy away. They have Oakland still to play while NE has already played them.

Bills have Minny, @NYJ, KC, @Miami, NYJ, Cleveland before going to Denver and hosting GB.

Close with @ Oakland before going to NE.

6-3 might have them tied going into that last game.

 

[Scooch]

Yeah it would be a non-issue had he down that. As a Pats fan watching with 10 other Pats fans we all agreed it was as bad a call as you will see.

This is because Pats fans are honest, magnanimous and devastatingly handsome.

 

[Scooch]

Mayo and Ridley out for the year, Buffalo might have lost the battle but still have a shot at winning the war.

After NYJ and Bears they play Denver, @Indy, Detroit, @GB and @SD consecutively. Close with Miami, @ NYJ, Buffalo.

Bills get Cleveland at home instead of Indy away. They have Oakland still to play while NE has already played them.

Bills have Minny, @NYJ, KC, @Miami, NYJ, Cleveland before going to Denver and hosting GB.

Close with @ Oakland before going to NE.

6-3 might have them tied going into that last game.

You never know. But I have seen BB fill far more injury-related holes than just Mayo and Ridley and go on to AFC Championship games. This is precisely why he builds a roster 1-53 and doesn't blow big money on #1 WRs.

Bills have a good team but I'm not sure they can overcome their QBs.

 

[Millhouse]

You never know. But I have seen BB fill far more injury-related holes than just Mayo and Ridley and go on to AFC Championship games. This is precisely why he builds a roster 1-53 and doesn't blow big money on #1 WRs.

Bills have a good team but I'm not sure they can overcome their QBs.

orton is fine. i think his chicago years are a distant memory. not just saying that because he's a bills qb.

if brady and gronk are healthy, they could pick any QB from the rest of the league and still not be good enough. if brady and gronk aren't right, orton's good enough. manuel isn't good enough no matter what happens to brady and gronk

 

[Alsacs]

RBs are a dime a dozen. Ridley isn't a huge loss as he has fumble issues. The Pats losing mayo though is huge is a top 3 defender on the team behind Revis and C. Jones.
Pats as long as Gronk and Brady are healthy will be fine.
They have 12-4 written all over them. The Pats secondary will save them against the Bears, Lions, Broncos.
I see them losing to the Colts and Packers and winning the rest.

 

[GoSU96]

RBs are a dime a dozen. Ridley isn't a huge loss as he has fumble issues. The Pats losing mayo though is huge is a top 3 defender on the team behind Revis and C. Jones.
Pats as long as Gronk and Brady are healthy will be fine.
They have 12-4 written all over them. The Pats secondary will save them against the Bears, Lions, Broncos.
I see them losing to the Colts and Packers and winning the rest.

They have to go to San Diego to.

 

[Orangeman]

Yeah it would be a non-issue had he down that. As a Pats fan watching with 10 other Pats fans we all agreed it was as bad a call as you will see.

As a Bills fan we're used to it against Kraft's Patriots

For imagery reasons alone Kraft and Goodell should stop getting photographed having dinner in Palm Beach together, if only for appearances and to keep up the competitive charade.

Who was first/loudest to defend his commissioner about the Ray Rice episode? Hmmmm

Who has the lost to lose?

 

[Chip]

Gotta love NFL refs. Attempting to legitimize their lame existence by making themselves part of the game at every moment. This fat f___ simply can't help himself. How dare this young man congratulate his teammate in such a savage manner! That type of behavior has no place in this classy game of gentlemen!

If the league hadn't already hit bulletproof status, calls like this could just make people find something else to do. That's how bad it was.

He moved his hands in a slapping gesture, I need to get this under control!

 

[KaiserUEO]

If the league hadn't already hit bulletproof status, calls like this could just make people find something else to do. That's how bad it was.

He moved his hands in a slapping gesture, I need to get this under control!

i think hes saying 'My God!!' as he attempts to break it up too.

 

[Millhouse]

i have watched about a thousand tom brady destructions where you just throw up your hands and say "well that sucked"

i've seen another thousand games where the bills find a way to lose to the patriots and you say "not again"

the refs never even factored into those

but this game felt like syracuse ohio state where you just lose interest and say "this is a joke"

 

[Scooch]

I'm not one to blindly defend bad calls because they benefit my team, so please take this in the spirit it is intended my Bills fan friends... but you do realize you cut the lead to a TD with 6 minutes left... and then let the Pats march 93 yards for a game clinching TD, right?

I mean if there were bad calls on that drive that you think affected the outcome, I get it. But the Pats had a 20 yard run negated by a false start, had another false start after a 1st down, and then hit a 56 yard bomb to one of the receivers everyone claims sucks.

I'm not really trying to get into with you guys, sincerely, but if you're vaunted D forced a 3 and out there you'd have gotten the ball in good field position with loads of time left. Not sure the refs cost you the TD that sealed it.

 

[orangenirvana]

Eh, I'd probably still take the Pats offensive roster. I like Watkins, but I'd take Gronk over any receiver on either roster. And Spiller/Jackson aren't markedly better than Ridley (healthy) and Vereen in my eyes. I guess people might disagree with that. Both OLs have given up the same # of sacks, so I'm not sure that the Bills protection is a ton better. And the Pats and Bills run games are statistically very similar this year, so the OLs seem to be comparable there as well.

Maybe I'm biased because I watch the Pats and only see the occasional Bills game. I just wonder if Bills fans overrate their talent? It's good, and I think with a better QB you'd be better, for sure. But I wouldn't necessarily swap my team with yours, sans Brady.

Not sure about the whole offensive roster but I have no doubt if Brady/Belichick had Watkins, Woods, Williams, Goodwin and Hogan to throw to no one would be wondering if Brady is finished because they'd be shattering passing records. Without Gronk.

 

[orangenirvana]

I'm not one to blindly defend bad calls because they benefit my team, so please take this in the spirit it is intended my Bills fan friends... but you do realize you cut the lead to a TD with 6 minutes left... and then let the Pats march 93 yards for a game clinching TD, right?

I mean if there were bad calls on that drive that you think affected the outcome, I get it. But the Pats had a 20 yard run negated by a false start, had another false start after a 1st down, and then hit a 56 yard bomb to one of the receivers everyone claims sucks.

I'm not really trying to get into with you guys, sincerely, but if you're vaunted D forced a 3 and out there you'd have gotten the ball in good field position with loads of time left. Not sure the refs cost you the TD that sealed it.

I don't think anyone is denying that despite everything the Bills had a chance at the end and failed in perfect Buffalo fashion like the choke artists they are.

 

[Scooch]

Not sure about the whole offensive roster but I have no doubt if Brady/Belichick had Watkins, Woods, Williams, Goodwin and Hogan to throw to no one would be wondering if Brady is finished because they'd be shattering passing records. Without Gronk.

I honestly don't know the Bills roster well enough to agree or disagree. You guys really think the Bills roster is that loaded? What supports that? I don't see it in the stats, but maybe you guys know something I don't.

*edit* I looked at those guys stats again and now I REALLY don't understand. Goodwin has 1 catch this year and had 17 last year. Hogan is a 2nd year TE from Monmouth with 7 catches in 6 games this year. Williams, come on, we had Chad Jackson a couple years ago and look how that went. MW would never see the field with the Pats b/c he'd never learn the playbook, the dummy.

I mean, the Pats have guys like LaFell, Thompkins, Wright, etc. who all have very similar stats. Are you saying that the Bills QB situation has been so bad that these stud WRs have been that underutilized? I guess I get that, but the numbers look really pedestrian for the hype some of you are giving the talent.

 

[Millhouse]

I'm not one to blindly defend bad calls because they benefit my team, so please take this in the spirit it is intended my Bills fan friends... but you do realize you cut the lead to a TD with 6 minutes left... and then let the Pats march 93 yards for a game clinching TD, right?

I mean if there were bad calls on that drive that you think affected the outcome, I get it. But the Pats had a 20 yard run negated by a false start, had another false start after a 1st down, and then hit a 56 yard bomb to one of the receivers everyone claims sucks.

I'm not really trying to get into with you guys, sincerely, but if you're vaunted D forced a 3 and out there you'd have gotten the ball in good field position with loads of time left. Not sure the refs cost you the TD that sealed it.

refs sucking and marrone being an idiot expecting the patriots to run are not mutually exclusive

i don't know why people think perfection is a prerequisite for complaints about refs.

 

[Tobias Funke]

i have watched about a thousand tom brady destructions where you just throw up your hands and say "well that sucked"

i've seen another thousand games where the bills find a way to lose to the patriots and you say "not again"

the refs never even factored into those

but this game felt like syracuse ohio state where you just lose interest and say "this is a joke"

I was at the Monday night game in 2009 when the Bills had a strong lead i think 12 points with under 3 minutes. I was with a bills fan who bet a stranger next to him $200 dollars that the Patriots would win the game. I thought it was the most insane thing i had ever heard. 2 touchdowns in 2 minutes and my friend left upset, but a little richer

He looked at me after and said that was the easiest $200 he ever made, the Bills always find a way to lose to Brady. That put it in perspective for me.

 

[Scooch]

refs sucking and marrone being an idiot expecting the patriots to run are not mutually exclusive

i don't know why people think perfection is a prerequisite for complaints about refs.

Who said that? There are more than a few people saying the Bills lost entirely because of the refs. AND that it was done purposefully because of the Bills market size and Bob Kraft's friendship with Goodell. I just find that stuff kinda...odd.

 

[Alsacs]

As a Pats fan I see the talent on the Bills roster. They are just bottom 10 at the most important position QB. The Patriots roster isn't full of elite talent Belichick has put a lot on Brady the past few years. They spent 12 million on Revis but the Pats have not drafted well in the bottom half of the first round. They did well with Chandler jones in 2012 but Hightower has been okay. Gronk was great in 2010 but a lot of the picks have been meh instead of great.

The Mankins trade was dumb they saved 5 million in cap space but they could have kept him thru this year and released him after the year and saved that 5 million. The Pats were already 8 million under the cap so the trade wasn't needed and all they got was a 4th round pick and Tim Wright. That trade killed the stability of the OL the first few weeks.

The Pats roster may have depth but they lack blue chip talent. Chandler Jones, Gronk, Revis are the Pats elite talent but they aren't consistent explosive playmakers on the team as Gronk gets hurt a lot and Chandler has been exposed in he run D.
I hear the Pats may spend their money on Demarius Thomas this offseason as they will have 14 million to play with.

 

[GoSU96]

Not sure about the whole offensive roster but I have no doubt if Brady/Belichick had Watkins, Woods, Williams, Goodwin and Hogan to throw to no one would be wondering if Brady is finished because they'd be shattering passing records. Without Gronk.

It's a unit made up of first and second year guys and a career knucklehead. Potential and an upgrade, but nothing proven.

 

[Toga]

 

[orangenirvana]

I honestly don't know the Bills roster well enough to agree or disagree. You guys really think the Bills roster is that loaded? What supports that? I don't see it in the stats, but maybe you guys know something I don't.

*edit* I looked at those guys stats again and now I REALLY don't understand. Goodwin has 1 catch this year and had 17 last year. Hogan is a 2nd year TE from Monmouth with 7 catches in 6 games this year. Williams, come on, we had Chad Jackson a couple years ago and look how that went. MW would never see the field with the Pats b/c he'd never learn the playbook, the dummy.

I mean, the Pats have guys like LaFell, Thompkins, Wright, etc. who all have very similar stats. Are you saying that the Bills QB situation has been so bad that these stud WRs have been that underutilized? I guess I get that, but the numbers look really pedestrian for the hype some of you are giving the talent.

Stats? I know you're smarter than this.

 

[Scooch]

As a Pats fan I see the talent on the Bills roster. They are just bottom 10 at the most important position QB. The Patriots roster isn't full of elite talent Belichick has put a lot on Brady the past few years. They spent 12 million on Revis but the Pats have not drafted well in the bottom half of the first round. They did well with Chandler jones in 2012 but Hightower has been okay. Gronk was great in 2010 but a lot of the picks have been meh instead of great. The Mankins trade was dumb they saved 5 million in cap space but they could have kept him thru this year and released him after the year and saved that 5 million. The Pats were already 8 million under the cap so the trade wasn't needed and all they got was a 4th round pick and Tim Wright. That trade killed the stability of the OL the first few weeks. The Pats roster may have depth but they lack blue chip talent. Chandler Jones, Gronk, Revis are the Pats elite talent but they aren't consistent explosive playmakers on the team as Gronk gets hurt a lot and Chandler has been exposed in he run D. I hear the Pats may spend their money on Demarius Thomas this offseason as they will have 14 million to play with.

I don't want to pollute a Bills thread, but the Mankins trade wasn't "dumb".

The guy graded out horribly last year, and there were 2 reserve OLmen who graded out better in camp. The Pats were not just staring at taking a big cap hit for a rapidly declining player, but they also weren't certain when, or if, Gronk was going to be Gronk again, and their whole 2 TE system has been in shambles since his injury and the scumbag murderer got pinched.

Tampa was desperate for an OLman so BB does what he always does... Sell high.

The OL is coming together very well *and* we have a legit 2nd pass-catching TE in Wright now.

Maybe it won't work out in the end, but it was far from "dumb".

 

[Scooch]

Stats? I know you're smarter than this.

Hardly.

 

[GoSU96]

I don't want to pollute a Bills thread, but the Mankins trade wasn't "dumb".

The guy graded out horribly last year, and there were 2 reserve OLmen who graded out better in camp. The Pats were not just staring at taking a big cap hit for a rapidly declining player, but they also weren't certain when, or if, Gronk was going to be Gronk again, and their whole 2 TE system has been in shambles since his injury and the scumbag murderer got pinched.

Tampa was desperate for an OLman so BB does what he always does... Sell high.

The OL is coming together very well *and* we have a legit 2nd pass-catching TE in Wright now.

Maybe it won't work out in the end, but it was far from "dumb".

There is BB and then there is everyone else. It certainty helps to have one of the two best QB's of the modern era, and no Kaiser Eli isn't the other.

 

[Alsacs]

I don't want to pollute a Bills thread, but the Mankins trade wasn't "dumb".

The guy graded out horribly last year, and there were 2 reserve OLmen who graded out better in camp. The Pats were not just staring at taking a big cap hit for a rapidly declining player, but they also weren't certain when, or if, Gronk was going to be Gronk again, and their whole 2 TE system has been in shambles since his injury and the scumbag murderer got pinched.

Tampa was desperate for an OLman so BB does what he always does... Sell high.

The OL is coming together very well *and* we have a legit 2nd pass-catching TE in Wright now.

Maybe it won't work out in the end, but it was far from "dumb".

We can agree to disagree. BB is the best in the biz but he bas made a few mistakes. Mankins had slipped a little bit in pass protection but he was still dominant as a run blocker. Devie, Fleming,Connolly, Cannon have struggled in the interior OL.
Tim Wright had a decent shot to be cut as Lovie Smith trashed him in the media before trading him and he was clearly 3rd on the TB depth chart. He likely could have been acquired for a 6th or 7th round pick. Mankins was asked to take a paycut and he declined to do so BB decided to move on. Money wasn't going to be a problem for the Pats this season as they were 6-8 million under the cap before the Mankins trade. Plus, Mankins was a leader on the team and his trade had to rock he locker room. Unlike when they did the same thing with Lawyer Milloy there was no Rodney Harrison ready to fill in.
I trust BB but the Pats should be trying to win now with a 37 yr old QB and I doubt a 4th round pick next year is a great trade.