OT: US News and World Report 2025

[elimunelson]

We should all get drinks sometime.

I got into SU, BC, Miami and UMass. I didn't want to go to BC because I spent TONS of time on that campus as a kid. My next door neighbor was the VP of Student Affairs there (Dr. Kevin Duffy) and I was best friends with his son.

I visited Miami and hated almost everyone I met there.

Came down to SU and UMass. SU was $8K more than UMass, so my folks said they'd cover the UMass portion and if I wanted to go to SU that was on me. So $32K+ in student loans later I was at SU.

I actually sent my deposit to Boston College. I found out I got in early because the head of housing tipped my dad off I was living on Newton Campus

Syracuse came through with a ton of money that i'm forever indebted to. I know some here think i'm a BC rumpswab and I am. Guilty. They were my forever team growing up. I spent alot of time there. But Syracuse truly saved me financially, met my wife, met all my best friends and ultimately got my job through my network there.

It means alot to me and i hope the school can rise again. It can and should continue to help others

 

[Bayside44]

I agree the rate is nuts but why? Why is Syracuse admitting all these students? is there yield rate abysmal?

SU had over 45K applicants last year. Common app and lack of SAT's I believe has really driven applications all over the place, esp at these name brand schools.

 

[elimunelson]

SU had over 45K applicants last year. Common app and lack of SAT's I believe has really driven applications all over the place, esp at these name brand schools.

All fair points. I think Syracuse allows a student to be admitted to arts and sciences if they are rejected from Newhouse too (or have the option). Some schools it's an either/or in terms of school they are applying to.

 

[Bayside44]

All fair points. I think Syracuse allows a student to be admitted to arts and sciences if they are rejected from Newhouse too (or have the option). Some schools it's an either/or in terms of school they are applying to.

People like me way back when That also drives the acceptance rate.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Wow that is horrendous. Probably means we are only a generation away from scary declining enrollment and they financial problems plauging small private schools that aren’t highly thought of that are dropping like flies.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Also, one place I think Syracuse has badly failed is in focusing too much on its glamour programs and not enough on A&S.

Newhouse and Maxwell degrees still carry weight, but what can a graduate do with a Syracuse liberal arts degree these days? That school, where a vast majority of students are concentrated, is middling at this point.

A+S was always hard and rigorous despite not being thought much of ever. Compared to a state school like say Boulder where a ton of kids from my HS went to and they said it was insanely easy. Wonder if that is still the case?

 

[Cuse181]

We’ve fallen in all the rankings. I’m also curious why more hasn’t been done to fix this. We are continually shown at the bottom of the ACC. In one ranking I saw, Louisville was above us. That’s not good.

Not having a medical school hurts because (I believe) a big driver in US news is grant funding

 

[Eric15]

On my drive up to Syracuse this past Thursday I listened to an interesting episode of my favorite podcast Freakonomics.

What Exactly Is College For? (Update) - Freakonomics

What Exactly Is College For? (Update) - Freakonomics

freakonomics.com

It analyzes how elite colleges essentially operate like luxury goods. Their exclusivity is more important than the education itself. Harvard is basically the equivalent of a Hermes watch. An Apple Watch or a Casio tells the time just as well, but it's the branding and image more than anything else. In the 1990s, Harvard admitted 20% of applicants, now it's down to 5%.

There is a strong argument to be made that if elite schools still want to receive federal aid (which they all do) they should be required to expand their enrollment proportional to population growth.

The Cal State system is a success story in this regard. They're required by state law to maintain enrollment in proportion to the number of high school graduates in the state. They recently built a brand new campus in Merced, and that school is currently ranked higher than SU.

 

[Stevenson]

30 years ago, about six schools dominated the industry I work in. You could pretty much guarantee when you were getting introduced to new co-workers, they went to one of those schools. That has completely broken down, individual sites are more likely to recruit from local schools. While there’s still target schools - there is a whole lot more of them - and it’s easier to get your foot in the door from another school as well.

Additionally there are some weird outliers - UAlbany business school has spent decades building relationships with financial firms in NYC. I don’t think its a highly rated business school - but your likelihood of getting a solid job on a good career path with a UAlbany MBA is good, probably better than many highly rated business schools…in that one extremely specialized way.

Yep. I have a UAlbany MBA and had no problem getting solid job interviews upon graduation.

 

[rocklloyd]

It was like 16 years ago, but I applied to 2 schools-- SU and Clarkson (because it was free). It was never a question where I wanted to go. In hindsight I do wish I applied to some higher academic schools (I did quite well in high school) just to see if I could get in. But for me, my entire existence was Syracuse University. There was no application or decision making process for me.

I only applied to 1 school. I went all in.

 

[TexanMark]

That's just one component though.

Malcom Gladwell (I know, I know) actually did a fascinating podcast about the US News rankings a couple years back. Laid out how much nonsense is a part of the formula, and how easy it is to game if a school is motivated.

I suspect SU's biggest issue that its overall acceptance rate is quite high. A lot of schools intentionally suppress that to juice their ranking.

You can game that...free application will garner more applicants and you can get a higher reject rate

 

[TexanMark]

My parents were totally hands off...I applied to 4 SUNY schools at Guidance Office. I had no idea what I was doing. It all worked out.

 

[mikemorg]

Are we sure Dohn isn’t handling these rankings? J/k

It is disturbing but I always felt that college is what you make of it. If you work hard and do lots of work outside of academics it reflects well both in grad school and job applications. I know many successful people from mediocre-ranked schools, and many screwups from highly ranked schools.

 

[CarlsbergMD]

We all know that these rankings can be easily gamed, and that they're not good at reflecting the things that college students should actually care about.

That being said, they're also a reality and most schools do take them seriously. Apparently not SU though, since we've let our ranking drop 30 places in the past ~30 years.

SU still has a good academic brand, but this ranking is bothersome. Schools are supposed to improve the perceived value of their degree over time, not see it decline.

Charging 86k for an undergraduate degree might have something to do with it...That money probably does not trickle down to better facilities...It's going to Administrative salaries. Although SU is a "national brand", getting Pre-Med/Pre-Law, or any hard science degree from a State School is 4x less...

 

[MamesJungro]

I live and work in Tri State, and graduated about 20 years ago. I cant say that I discuss undergrad very often with folks anymore, but would say that common perception is that we are either a safety school for kids who preferred to go to NYU, or, surprisingly, a state school.

Things can change, but with the amount of money that I’m putting away a month for my youngish kids, id probably steer them into a different direction

 

[CIL]

Not too long ago, Williams determined that 25% of its incoming class were recruited varsity athletes.

I’m not sure that math adds up. 500 incoming students. So 125 had to be athletes? There aren’t that many spots on the school sports teams, unless every single kid quits playing after freshman year.

Or maybe this is why they pounded us in football every year.

 

[SU91]

A lot of people make the argument that these rankings don’t matter because of how they’re formulated. However, they do matter because prospective students use these rankings to make a determination of what schools they’d like to attend. As long as SU maintains the perception of not being a serious academic institution, the downward spiral will continue because well qualified students will stay away and less qualified students will choose to attend. The downward momentum will continue. SU needs not only to take corrective steps academically, it needs to “game” the rankings system and launch a sustained PR campaign before it’s too late.

 

[NCCuse]

This is not a good situation. Every year I dread scrolling farther down the list to find SU. I thought Kent Syverud was committed to fixing this: Kent Syverud speaks about improving Syracuse University's national rankings

SU is now starting to fall behind the big four SUNY universities...not a good situation. Is there anything the alumni can do?? Also time to lose the BS party school reputation.

 

[orangecuse]

Folks can sour grape, come up with all of the rationale, etc. relative to SU's continued decline in the national rankings as they see fit, meeting with their own belief system, etc. However, if perception is reality, well, SU clearly is currently not in a good spot, especially when considering the extremely inflated cost of attendance, etc.

Interestingly, SU does pay attention and seems to care, otherwise Whitman wouldn't have put out such a social media post relative to their improvement in the rankings.

 

[elimunelson]

Folks can sour grape, come up with all of the rationale, etc. relative to SU's continued decline in the national rankings as they see fit, meet with their own belief system, etc. However, if perception is reality, well, SU clearly is currently not in a good spot, especially when considering the extremely inflated cost of attendance, etc.

Interestingly, SU does pay attention and seems to care, otherwise Whitman wouldn't have put out such social media post relative to their improvement in the rankings.

they have to care. it would be malfeasance if they didn't bigger q is the fix and if it's a demographic issue where kids don't want CNY anymore as their first choice and are waiting to see if they get into maryland or something south before they settle on Syracuse. the applications are healthy, it's the amount of kids getting admitted that's troubling.

 

[Bayside44]

they have to care. it would be malfeasance if they didn't bigger q is the fix and if it's a demographic issue where kids don't want CNY anymore as their first choice and are waiting to see if they get into maryland or something south before they settle on Syracuse. the applications are healthy, it's the amount of kids getting admitted that's troubling.

If Syracuse removed the 2nd choice option wonder how different the stats would look. Kids not getting into Newhouse or Falk but getting into A and S counts as accepted, correct?

 

[rocklloyd]

they have to care. it would be malfeasance if they didn't bigger q is the fix and if it's a demographic issue where kids don't want CNY anymore as their first choice and are waiting to see if they get into maryland or something south before they settle on Syracuse. the applications are healthy, it's the amount of kids getting admitted that's troubling.

Not sold on geography. I think it’s value for the cost. My kid is freshman at Cornell. It’s only marginally more expensive than Syracuse but overall a far better institution.

 

[elimunelson]

Not sold on geography. I think it’s value for the cost. My kid is freshman at Cornell. It’s only marginally more expensive than Syracuse but overall a far better institution.

that's an ivy league school. not even the same galaxy reputation/prestige wise.

not to mention Cornell and all the ivys are affordable for every student no matter what. their endowment and financial aid make it affordable to 100% of students who need the money.

i think the comp would be closer to Colgate for Syracuse demographic wise. However, Colgate is such a prep school favorite it probably isn't.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

groups of people that colleges most want to help.

Professors and administrators?

 

[Millhouse]

Professors and administrators?

That got a grin out of me.