OT: vaccine

[tee1222]

Honestly, all the reports at this points are anecdotal at best. There's not nearly enough data re: testing, etc. to draw conclusions about the current situation as it relates to the B.1.167 variant. So far, the breakthrough infections are largely related to the AstraZeneca vaccine (prominent in India), which has been less effective generally against variants (including B.1.1.7 or the "British" variant, which is also likely a contributor to the current wave in India). Then there's the broader social context to consider - single digit vaccination rates, general population sentiments re: crowds and distancing, etc.

TL;DR - wait for more data, the story is likely much more complex than a single variant.

So what you're saying is the ifs have it...

 

[RealMcNeil]

So what you're saying is the ifs have it...

Yes - like Cal, they could get right back in this.

 

[rrlbees]

 

[CuseTroop]

Had to miss my appointment yesterday, but they were able to get me in today. 2nd shot, moderna. So far so good. Injection site hurts a bit, and my shot arm randomly went numb for a while, but seems fine now. I don’t remember that from the first shot. We’ll see how it goes

 

[Vorony]

Me, too. Second stick coming on Tuesday.

My 2nd is on Tuesday also, but I’m Moderna. We can compare symptoms, if any. Fingers crossed it’s smooth sailing.

 

[miamicuse]

This is how people get dumb information and it spreads. Stop saying stuff like this. There is nothing about what you're saying that is correct at this time.

First of all, I started my post with the word "seems inevitable" so obviously it's my opinion. However, it's not dumb and not uninformed.

Take a look at India COVID test cases and deaths (which many sources have suggested it is UNDER-reported) below:

Everyone thought they have reached a peak around October last year and the cases have slowed down and suddenly in March it shot up exponentially to an almost asymptote. Over 400,000 new cases a day, average 2 deaths per minute. This is just insane, what happened?

Here is an article published in January of 2021, at that time it was reported that majority of Indians have natural immunity already, "...the officially reported figure of COVID cases in India is around 1.4 crore, mathematical models imply that more than 50 per cent of the Indian population may have developed natural immunity to the virus." The projection at the time was at least a billion Indians have already been infected, and many recovered, so they have "achieved" herd immunity, and those recovered will be immunised again re-infection.

Majority Indians have natural immunity. Vaccinating entire population can cause great harm

For recovered Covid patients, the vaccines provide no benefit and some harm. It is thus unethical to vaccinate them.

theprint.in

Only 3 months later, this happens. So this means two things, the natural immunity does not last long at all after the first infection, or the new variant(s) spreads much more easier and is more potent. They are not sure, we are not sure either. Whatever this report in January stated, it's proven to be completely wrong in April.

One thing we do know, was that last year many experts were projecting COVID might be less likely to spread in regions with hot climate, well that seems to be out the door now.

Many countries have travel bans for those who have been in India. UK put in an India travel ban on April 23. So has Australia, Bangladesh, Belgium, Canada, France, Germany, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Iran, Italy, Kuwait, Malawi, Maldives, Netherlands, New Zealand, Oman, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Thailand, United Arab Emirates. The USA hasn't, YET, not until May 2.

Reports indicated many have already fled India (kind of like how many Chinese fled Wuhan and China last year) weeks earlier.

This is one such data point from Hong Kong, who tests EVERYONE who enters the city. On April 4, 2021, On Indian Airlines Vistara flight UK6395, that flight had 146 adults and 7 children. They all had tested negative before boarding, but after landing while in isolation (HK requires 21 day quarantine) at least 52 passengers have been tested positive. 52!

52 passengers test positive for Covid on Indian flight

Dozens of passengers tested positive on arrival, following negative results in Delhi.

www.nzherald.co.nz

Flights are still landing on US soil from India, until May 2, and we don't test any of them. That Hong Kong flight was a month ago! How many infected coming from India are amongst us now?

Am I concerned what caused India's sharp spike could happen elsewhere outside of India? Yes.

Will I be happy if my concerns turns out to be nothing and there isn't another wave around the corner for us? Absolutely! Love to be proven wrong about this.

 

[GoSU96]

Pretty remarkable that the country is awash in multiple vaccine choices 13 months after the outbreak. I remember experts saying it was overly ambitious to have even one approved in 18 months let alone 9, which is what happened and when in September it was stated that by April anyone that wanted to get a shot could have one the across the certainty that that was not going to happen.

Experts and rulers raised questions about safety that would be created by rushing a vaccine

now those same experts are begging people to take a shot they created doubts about vaccines they said would exist for another five months at the earliest and attacking people for not wanting to get the shot they were the ones to raise safety questions about.

what a great country

 

[longtimefan]

Pretty remarkable that the country is awash in multiple vaccine choices 13 months after the outbreak. I remember experts saying it was overly ambitious to have even one approved in 18 months let alone 9, which is what happened and when in September it was stated that by April anyone that wanted to get a shot could have one the across the certainty that that was not going to happen.

Experts and rulers raised questions about safety that would be created by rushing a vaccine

now those same experts are begging people to take a shot they created doubts about vaccines they said would exist for another five months at the earliest and attacking people for not wanting to get the shot they were the ones to raise safety questions about.

what a great country

Things change.

A vaccine had never been developed this quickly. But, there had never been such a concerted effort, worldwide, to bring vaccines on line. A wild guess--perhaps half of all medical research done in the world starting last Spring was vaccine-related. Huge amounts of money were pledged. National pride got involved--vaccines developed in the US, EU, Russia, China.

In short--we're living in a new world. Whatever reasonable doubts that existed re: vaccines a year ago have been overcome, at least to some extent, by science and circumstance.

Stay informed, and follow the science as it evolves.

 

[rrlbees]

Things change.

A vaccine had never been developed this quickly. But, there had never been such a concerted effort, worldwide, to bring vaccines on line. A wild guess--perhaps half of all medical research done in the world starting last Spring was vaccine-related. Huge amounts of money were pledged. National pride got involved--vaccines developed in the US, EU, Russia, China.

In short--we're living in a new world. Whatever reasonable doubts that existed re: vaccines a year ago have been overcome, at least to some extent, by science and circumstance.

Stay informed, and follow the science as it evolves.

and it helped that the medical technology used by Pfizer and Moderna has been worked on for 30 years. It was just sped up because of everything you said. Next on the horizon after boosters for the variants is a vaccine effective against any covid virus.

 

[miamicuse]

Pretty remarkable that the country is awash in multiple vaccine choices 13 months after the outbreak. I remember experts saying it was overly ambitious to have even one approved in 18 months let alone 9, which is what happened and when in September it was stated that by April anyone that wanted to get a shot could have one the across the certainty that that was not going to happen.

Experts and rulers raised questions about safety that would be created by rushing a vaccine

now those same experts are begging people to take a shot they created doubts about vaccines they said would exist for another five months at the earliest and attacking people for not wanting to get the shot they were the ones to raise safety questions about.

what a great country

That's why there is such confusion. This has been a lot of mixed messaging due to lack of understanding and new information being gained every day that changed the messaging before.

The vaccines has not been approved. It has been "authorized" for emergency uses, what they call EUAs. Full approval by FDA is hopefully coming.

Even mask wearing, last Feb, March when no masks were in sight at any stores, the messaging was that masks were not needed as long as you stay socially distanced (at the same time we saw Asian countries mandating mask wearing and their health experts calling for mask wearing), then a few months later USA said yeah, mask wearing is fine, it protects the wearer from infecting others but not from being infected by others. Then later oh yeah mask wearing protects the wearer too...then hey wearing two masks is better then one...WTH? I think the shortage of masks initially caused the bad messaging, lots of political pressure too. The flip flop messaging definitely IMO affected confidence of those who are now holding out on vaccinations.

 

[GoSU96]

Things change.

A vaccine had never been developed this quickly. But, there had never been such a concerted effort, worldwide, to bring vaccines on line. A wild guess--perhaps half of all medical research done in the world starting last Spring was vaccine-related. Huge amounts of money were pledged. National pride got involved--vaccines developed in the US, EU, Russia, China.

In short--we're living in a new world. Whatever reasonable doubts that existed re: vaccines a year ago have been overcome, at least to some extent, by science and circumstance.

Stay informed, and follow the science as it evolves.

come on, reasonable doubt? the doubts were said with vehement certainty

 

[br801]

Hello darkside, my old friend...

 

[longtimefan]

come on, reasonable doubt? the doubts were said with vehement certainty

"Under promise, over deliver."

 

[SUFaninNJ]

My wife got her second Pfizer shot yesterday. Today she’s got a head ache, body ache, fever, chills and is nauseous. She said she feels like Joe Girard after downing his second Garbage Plate from Nick Tahou’s. (Is that how you do it, HOFCeluck ?)

 

[GoSU96]

I

"Under promise, over deliver."

isn’t it promise and deliver inspite of experts certainty

 

[OttoinGrotto]

My wife got her second Pfizer shot yesterday. Today she’s got a head ache, body ache, fever chills and is nauseous. She said she feels like Joe Girard after downing his second Garbage Plate from Nick Tahou’s. (Is that how you do it, HOFCeluck ?)

 

[NineOneSeven]

March 2020 I thought places like India were going to be really screwed. They somehow were not as impacted as other places for the better part of last year. What's happening now is what I thought would have happened much earlier last year.

 

[Orangemen]

Had second dose of Moderna Friday morning. Was expecting the worst based on various second dose stories I’ve heard.

Turned out to be not that bad. Basically like the last day of getting over a cold. A little achy, a little tired, but good enough to get up and do some things for a bit before having to take a break for a while.

Really was as close to nothing as I could have hoped. The worst part, easily, is the pain at the injection site. Doesn’t hurt normally, but raise the arm up over you’re head and you’ll feel it.

All in all not a bad experience, and worth the benefit for sure.

 

[Orangemen]

and it helped that the medical technology used by Pfizer and Moderna has been worked on for 30 years. It was just sped up because of everything you said. Next on the horizon after boosters for the variants is a vaccine effective against any covid virus.

The craziest part to me is that moderna and Pfizer vaccines were designed in a matter of hours in January of last year. Before most people were really focused on covid even becoming a thing.

The Indian variant is obviously a huge threat and unknown at this point. Will our vaccines work against it? Who knows. Stopping flights from India is fine, but as has been stated, that variant is out and absolutely in the US right now.

By the time we can name any new variant, especially the highly contagious ones, it’s already spread too far to stop it. That’s the big threat we have going forward, does any variant mutate in just the wrong way for our vaccines to stop it. Then we are back to square one.

 

[Chris02M]

The craziest part to me is that moderna and Pfizer vaccines were designed in a matter of hours in January of last year. Before most people were really focused on covid even becoming a thing.

The Indian variant is obviously a huge threat and unknown at this point. Will our vaccines work against it? Who knows. Stopping flights from India is fine, but as has been stated, that variant is out and absolutely in the US right now.

By the time we can name any new variant, especially the highly contagious ones, it’s already spread too far to stop it. That’s the big threat we have going forward, does any variant mutate in just the wrong way for our vaccines to stop it. Then we are back to square one.

there working on a universal booster for any current or future variants

 

[Red Holzman]

No idea if I'll need it, but got the NYS Excelsior Pass uploaded to my phone to prove I'm vaccinated.
Very EZ -only took a couple minutes and now no need to carry my vacc card.
Expiration is 6mos from 2nd vacc date.
Apparently you then just go back to the Excelsior Pass website to retrieve a new Pass.

 

[dasher]

Fine last night, got up (late) this morning feeling like I got my butt kicked. Headache, sore arm, and "fuzzy" feeling all day. Starting to feel a bit better now.

Small price to pay. Thanks for asking.

And exactly how is that different from the way you are every other day?

 

[rrlbees]

And exactly how is that different from the way you are every other day?

most days he doesn’t get his ass kicked.

 

[dasher]

most days he doesn’t get his ass kicked.

??? Perhaps you aren't as familiar with him as you think.

 

[justgold315]

No idea if I'll need it, but got the NYS Excelsior Pass uploaded to my phone to prove I'm vaccinated.
Very EZ -only took a couple minutes and now no need to carry my vacc card.
Expiration is 6mos from 2nd vacc date.
Apparently you then just go back to the Excelsior Pass website to retrieve a new Pass.

I just did the same. I feel like I am going to lose the card very soon