OT: Why I Loathe the University of Alabama

[reedny]

do you really think that employers care about what professors think? other than the ivy league, and a advanced degree, that is a bogus assumption. no one is interested in the undergrad stuff, except those that had an intership, and that does matter. 4yrs is just the beginning for most----liberal arts is what it is---well rounded ----however the fields that you mention,other than law,medicine,research etc that may apply. by the way, i have a msw,lcsw (before i retired)and i dare say i will argue civil war, ww1 korea and ww2 history with whom ever you chose

I absolutely do, as the 60 minutes special pointed out. In fact, the impact of a degree from a for-profit (online) instructional school has been more than a disappointment for many. The problems have reached the level of outright fraud, drawing the interest of state attorneys general and spurring legislative reforms. I'm not saying all online learning is sub-standard .. internet instruction can be useful in some instances for some students, as pointed out above. But reducing the SUNY schools to 2 year programs, or relying solely on online instruction, would be a disaster for post-secondary public education. Being there is almost always better, which is why brick and mortar institutions (like SU) continue to draw top students (and employment opportunities).

But hey, maybe online courses work for you. It's a free country with lots of educational options ... learning in any form is a worthy endeavor and if you feel internet learning is best for you, rock on.

 

[reedny]

my daughter grad. from upenn, yes she is highly intelligent, athletic and has a jd from su and ma from maxwell.---am i affluent -no-but middle income with no connections, did penn give me money--no--work study--did she go debt free---yes---as we paid it, like many others , i had the 3 jobs to prove it. my son equally as bright, is in CAR SALES, went to a cc. did not want to go on to 4yr. both kids make high 6 figures---guess who makes the higher 6 figs? i am blessed that they are both successful, if you have personality and get along with people, and have innate intelligence , the ba/bs in sociology/psychology and other liberal arts --does not mean much. it remains a very good entry tool. it makes it easier, but as usual in the real world, if you can't perform and cannot get along it is worthless.

right how this may be the case. but the income potential for the two are vastly different, as you know.

 

[tipphill]

right how this may be the case. but the income potential for the two are vastly different, as you know.

not sure i understand the comment.

 

[alphaorange]

not sure i understand the comment.

Because there is not enough information to make an informed opinion. There are not many jobs more lucrative than high end sales. BTW, I often disagree with much of what you post but I found your posts in this thread interesting and your opinions paralleling my own. I would be interested in knowing Reed's horse in this race. It sounds like there is an educational career in there somewhere. Perhaps his or someone in his family?

 

[tipphill]

Because there is not enough information to make an informed opinion. There are not many jobs more lucrative than high end sales. BTW, I often disagree with much of what you post but I found your posts in this thread interesting and your opinions paralleling my own. I would be interested in knowing Reed's horse in this race. It sounds like there is an educational career in there somewhere. Perhaps his or someone in his family?

often disagree with me? i'm shockedwould like to hear why, as conflict is clarifying and i may learn something. one of my best friends often disagrees with me and thats why i ask his opinion, he will give a point a view that i had not thought of and makes me really think about what i have said. has been my dearest friend for 40yrs.

 

[reedny]

Because there is not enough information to make an informed opinion. There are not many jobs more lucrative than high end sales. BTW, I often disagree with much of what you post but I found your posts in this thread interesting and your opinions paralleling my own. I would be interested in knowing Reed's horse in this race. It sounds like there is an educational career in there somewhere. Perhaps his or someone in his family?

I'm not trying to shill for an academic career, or put on airs here. I'm pointing out that an approach to education that you and TH seem to dismiss -- traditional brick and mortar undergraduate studies in liberal arts -- is not out of date and remains, statistically, one of the most successful ways to learn at the undergraduate level (the cited articles explain). Obviously, a LA's degree is not for everyone -- those majoring in English literature, psychology or philosophy are usually headed to graduate school (where they will find their background a surprising advantage). But to argue, as TH did, that a LA, on-campus education is somehow inferior, or that the SUNY curricula should be narrowed to vocational training or converted to a for-profit/online system like U of Phoenix, is ludicrous.

 

[alphaorange]

I do

I'm not trying to shill for an academic career, or put on airs here. I'm pointing out that an approach to education that you and TH seem to dismiss -- traditional brick and mortar undergraduate studies in liberal arts -- is not out of date and remains, statistically, one of the most successful ways to learn at the undergraduate level (the cited articles explain). Obviously, a LA's degree is not for everyone -- those majoring in English literature, psychology or philosophy are usually headed to graduate school (where they will find their background a surprising advantage). But to argue, as TH did, that a LA, on-campus education is somehow inferior, or that the SUNY curricula should be narrowed to vocational training or converted to a for-profit/online system like U of Phoenix, is ludicrous.

I don't dismiss it at all. I just don't think it is the end all/be all. There can be no disputing that times have changed and the educational system in this country is failing at all levels, save graduate level courses. It is my belief that students are not required to excel, anymore. That, more than anything, has allowed off campus students to close the gap. I didn't think you were putting on airs at all. I simply wondered about the source of your perspective.

 

[tipphill]

I'm not trying to shill for an academic career, or put on airs here. I'm pointing out that an approach to education that you and TH seem to dismiss -- traditional brick and mortar undergraduate studies in liberal arts -- is not out of date and remains, statistically, one of the most successful ways to learn at the undergraduate level (the cited articles explain). Obviously, a LA's degree is not for everyone -- those majoring in English literature, psychology or philosophy are usually headed to graduate school (where they will find their background a surprising advantage). But to argue, as TH did, that a LA, on-campus education is somehow inferior, or that the SUNY curricula should be narrowed to vocational training or converted to a for-profit/online system like U of Phoenix, is ludicrous.

i never said it was INFERIOR or that suny should be narrowed to VOCATIONAL TRAINING---i said that there are legitimate alternatives to the the traditional 4yr ON CAMPUS liberal arts degrees. as for your commentary, i am now concerned that your interpretation of my comments are distorted, and question, whether ANY liberal arts education taught you how to read, think, and interpret in an appropriate manner. this is no longer a discussion---you have made generic assumptions, which you need to re-evaluate

 

[reedny]

i never said it was INFERIOR or that suny should be narrowed to VOCATIONAL TRAINING---i said that there are legitimate alternatives to the the traditional 4yr ON CAMPUS liberal arts degrees. as for your commentary, i am now concerned that your interpretation of my comments are distorted, and question, whether ANY liberal arts education taught you how to read, think, and interpret in an appropriate manner. this is no longer a discussion---you have made generic assumptions, which you need to re-evaluate

You argued that 4 year programs should be eliminated in favor of 2 year programs, which consist pretty much of VOCATIONAL degrees and technical training. To me, that means you consider 4 year programs (liberal arts, as an example) inferior or expendable. I pointed out the reasons why I disagree.

You also said that on-campus education is part of a "bygone era". This couldn't be farther from the truth, as the articles (and statistics) I cited indicate.

You touted "U of Phoenix". Online degrees might be popular, but who are they really helping? The CEO's making big profits, or the graduates with useless degrees (per the 60 minutes piece). Again, I agree that the internet has a place in modern education ... so it's not like I'm vilifying all online learning. Clearly it is popular and useful in certain subject areas (e.g., math) for some students. But there's a limit, and the availability of the internet does not mean that traditional ways of post-secondary instruction are "bygone' (far from it).


the days of isolation to campus as the only viable RELEVANT vehicle for education have become part of the by gone era

schools like the u of phoenix and many others thrive.

my vision for suny would be to enhance an already excellent cc system, scale back some of the 4yr campuses to 2yr upper division. and establish premier core of schools of excellence at SELECTED campuses

 

[Stern]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...nt-to-uab-football-being-reinstated-on-monday

UAB football is back!!! Good to hear!

 

[tipphill]

You were the one who claimed that on-campus education is part of a ""bygone era". This couldn't be farther from the truth, so I think you should "re-evaluate" your own posts. I'm fine with mine.

You also touted "U of Phoenix". Sure it's thriving, but who is it really helping? The CEO's making big profits, or the graduates with useless degrees (per the 60 minutes piece). Again, I agree that the internet has a place in modern education ... so it's not like I'm vilifying all online learning. Clearly it is popular and useful in certain subject areas (e.g., math) for some students. But there's a limit, and the availability of the internet does not mean that traditional ways of post-secondary instruction are "bygone' (far from it).

You also said your vision is to "scale back" 4 year SUNY campuses to 2 year schools (limited pretty much to VOCATIONAL degrees and technical training). I don't think there's any advantage to that whatsoever, and it would reduce access to 4 year programs for those students capable of the challenge.

the days of isolation to campus as the only viable RELEVANT vehicle for education have become part of the by gone era

schools like the u of phoenix and many others thrive.

my vision for suny would be to enhance an already excellent cc system, scale back some of the 4yr campuses to 2yr upper division. and establish premier core of schools of excellence at SELECTED campuses

like i said, this is no longer a discussion

 

[reedny]

it was more of an ordeal than a discussion.