Cusefan0307
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Why weren't they lucky that NC state beat Nova?
Our boring style has produced two #1 seeds
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Why weren't they lucky that NC state beat Nova?
TheCusian
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I love, love the "A FF is nice, but we need to be dominant and win a lot!" and the "Wins are nothing, FF are all that matter" arguments (kind of a first world problem, but ) ...
1. The team and coaches want both.
2. I think that's exactly what we always want as fans.
BUT given a choice - yeah, give me the "10 seed to FF" over the "25-0, but flamed out early" thing.
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Similarly - I'd love to win every game by 40 points playing super-exciting defense and offense . But I'll settle for just winning.
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S0 - lets win as many games and go to as many final fours playing the style our HoF coach sees as the best way to get there. Oh, wait. That's what we've been doing for 3 decades +.
1. The team and coaches want both.
2. I think that's exactly what we always want as fans.
BUT given a choice - yeah, give me the "10 seed to FF" over the "25-0, but flamed out early" thing.
---
Similarly - I'd love to win every game by 40 points playing super-exciting defense and offense . But I'll settle for just winning.
---
S0 - lets win as many games and go to as many final fours playing the style our HoF coach sees as the best way to get there. Oh, wait. That's what we've been doing for 3 decades +.
Cusefan0307
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Thought they were an 8. Still my statement stands that they got "lucky" Nova got beat.
They beat 2 seed Virginia, 3 seed Oklahoma, 4 seed Louisville. That 7 seed Michigan State team earned that FF.
They played a hard OOC schedule and got better in conference play.
RF2044
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The "span" before the NCAA investigation / sanctions produced two #1 seeded teams in 3 years, and a final four.
Agree 100% about the NCAA over-penalizing us.
I'm just pointing out that the losses we've racked up at an unprecedented rate these past three years have some basis in the penalties we received [not just the scholarship reductions, but also the limits on recruiting, etc.]. Prior to those penalties being imposed, we were killing it, and had a 4-5 year span where our program, brand, and on-court performance were at the opposite end of the spectrum.
Cusefan0307
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I have a hard time believing we didn't earn it by beating a Gonzaga team that was top 25 most of the year and beating #1 seed Virginia.
People are making different arguments for different teams. Maybe Michigan State should have played defense against MTSU.
H
HOFCeluck
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It's this idea that "everything's fine, we made a final four" that some keep putting out there that I have issue with. I don't think we were any more or less lucky than MSU was two years ago.
CorduroyG
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we certainly earned it with the gonzaga and especially virginia comebacks, but it was an enormous break, and i dont think we were beating sparty.
I don't think anyone thinks or thought everything is fine. But, if we could go on another run this year and put off solving our problems another year, that would be great.
That Gonzaga team is a bubble team and probably doesn't get in if they didn't win the WCC autobid. They were seeded 11 with the autobid. Their resume was thin.
We earned the Final four as well I was just commenting on 'Michigan State's path. They beat the 2,3,4,10 seeds that was pretty impressive.
LOL and you didn't think we would beat Virginia either. Nor did you or anyone else think that MTSU would beat Sparty. They did and we smoked MTSU. The only thing that counts is what happened. By the way, if we played Sparty, we would have beat them. They weren't that good. As MTSU showed.
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HOFCeluck
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Transitive property is a valid idea. Huh. Who knew.
Works just as well as predicting that the team that lost to the team we smoked would have beaten us. Oh, who knew? I do.
JOC44
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Anyone who said that is not very smart. The lost scholarships was by far the most damaging punishment the NCAA meted out. People look at it like, "well, we only have 10 scholarship players, so we didn't need more than 10 scholarships." That's dumb. You need more than 10 scholarships because that's what allows you to offer multiple players and also to offer program guys who might not be expected to play much until they are a soph or junior but who can be important veterans as upperclassmen. But you can't offer those B list guys or program guys when you only have 10 scholarships because when they accept, now you don't have enough scholarships for your A list guys. And then when guys (wisely or unwisely) go pro earlier than expected, you have no program depth.
The grad transfer rule has been a savior for Syracuse because that's how you deal with early departures when scholarship limitations mean you have no program depth waiting in the wings.
Syracuse football beat Virginia Tech
Virginia Tech beat Pittsburgh
Pittsburgh beat Clemson
Clemson beat Alabama
Ergo Syracuse > Alabama FB.
TheCusian
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Teams that aren't ok don't accidentally go to final fours.
Go back in time to January 2015 our board didn't think the scholarships were a killer because JB only plays 7.5 guys max.
I agree the scholarships after the ban were the biggest punishment. We got 11 scholarships for next year and then 12 in 2018.
I hope we start building up depth.
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Cusefan0307
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Maybe Sparty should have showed up and played some defense against MTSU. We beat that team by what like 25?
I'm not all for the transitive property, but if any of you quote what a great job 10 seed X power conference coach did making the FF going forward, I'm definately calling that said poster out.
Syracuse makes FF as 10 seed they are lucky.
Any other seed makes it worse than a 4 seed they earned it. Give me a break.
H
HOFCeluck
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Not really. Because, you know, MSU was the better team all year and MTSU probably loses 9/10 they play vs the Spartans.
But as I said, if we shot 58 percent from three as MTSU did in that game, then I'd give us a shot.
H
HOFCeluck
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Oh cool. Quote the post of mine that says we went to the final four by accident.
MSU better than Virginia last year?
We earned it we beat the #1 seed.
However we can admit we got lucky with our draw.
As a 10 seed we wore our white jerseys TWICE that is insane for a 10 seed.
After 2010 and 2012 not having broken brackets we were due a break which we got and took advantage of.
We earned the FF it just not unreasonable to say it's a fluke.
H
HOFCeluck
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Probably not, no
Cusefan0307
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Michigan State also shot 56% in that game. I don't think they were shooting 56% if they played us.
Cusefan0307
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Listen I'm not happy with the lack of success this year, but this thread is ridiculous.
Is it a fluke when any team that isn't a 1-4 seed doesn't make it?
I mean Indiana was better than us most of 2012-2013 and we destroyed them.
I think some people are giving other schools the benefit of doubt more than they give us,
