Our boring style has produced two #1 seeds

[Fly Rodder]

everyone is bagging on the offense, but this year's offensive efficiency of 116.2 is the highest Syracuse has attained in the 16 seasons that Ken Pomeroy has been computing the statistic.

I think the offense could have been better under an offensive minded coach with the fire power that SU had. Four guys who can shoot ~35-40% from three and 80%+ from the free throw line can pile up points if they have a good plan.

 

[longislandcuse]

I'll be honest and say that I'll take a crappy regular season like last year that results in a Final Four EVERY TIME over what Arizona has been doing.

I'll take the disappointing regular seasons over the past 4 years that have equated to 2 - Final 4's EVERY TIME over what Arizona has been doing.

That being said, it's also ok to acknowledge that Boeheim's style is very tough to stomach, that the tournament involves "luck" (for everyone), in which we've clearly had some, and that given our recruiting misses and JB's lack of even trying on top prospects, that he is operating the program as a House of Cards that many of us are afraid could collapse and take a minute to build back up. This is why I'm ready for the Hop-era now and let's get some energy back into the program and see what he can do.

 

[Alsacs]

everyone is bagging on the offense, but this year's offensive efficiency of 116.2 is the highest Syracuse has attained in the 16 seasons that Ken Pomeroy has been computing the statistic.

it's the defense that cost us this season; it was the first Syracuse team to give up more than 1 point per possession in the same 16 season window.

there is no problem with either system; its the players in it and they way they execute. and the same is true for every team - when Duke or UNC or Kentucky or Arizona have down years, its because of their talent and the execution, not their systems.

all that being said - the program is in trouble. I've believed for a long time that programs that have to rely on transfers just to field competitive teams are not in a good position.

Our offense sucks.
We have shooters. They are making tough shots.
Our offense is easy to defend. We don't move the ball. We don't pass to the paint.

Our offense is all one on one or jump shots. When we make those shots we win. We did that at home on the road our offense wasn't the same.
Plain and simple to understand.

Fran Franscilla in the Wisconsin game this year basically said what I have been saying. Our offensive identity is to rely on talent. That is sad.
We don't run anymore. We used to have a transition game to help score easy baskets. Since 2013 that has gone away.
JB seems like he wants to win games on defense and just hope we make enough jumpers to help the zone.
That is a recipe to win games but it's got such a small margin for error it loses games as well.

 

[Lucid]

More importantly, I will say that more and more coaches are playing zone now than 10 years ago.

And this could be at least a PART of the reason SU is finding it a tad more difficult. More teams playing zone means more teams understanding zone, and being able to attack it successfully. In other words, maybe our zone is befuddling fewer teams than a few years ago?

Maybe.

 

[longislandcuse]

And this could be at least a PART of the reason SU is finding it a tad more difficult. More teams playing zone means more teams understanding zone, and being able to attack it successfully. In other words, maybe our zone is befuddling fewer teams than a few years ago?

Maybe.

Steph Curry.

Every kid is growing up with 3's as the new dunk. Tough to zone teams that have a ton of good shooters and smart basketball players. The ACC has that up and down the conference.

Very frustrating when teams that we are light years ahead of talent wise and athletically beat us because we allow them to dictate tempo and shoot threes with snipers who could normally never get a shot off against a Tyus Battle type.

 

[Fly Rodder]

More teams play abut of zone, but it's not the same as the SU zone. Duke played a bit last night and UNC shredded it. Then they switched back to M2M and started burying threes.

 

[Alsacs]

And this could be at least a PART of the reason SU is finding it a tad more difficult. More teams playing zone means more teams understanding zone, and being able to attack it successfully. In other words, maybe our zone is befuddling fewer teams than a few years ago?

Maybe.

When you write this I think of Coach K and team USA.
In 2010 they were playing an exhibition in Spain and it was a 1 point USA lead with 12 seconds left.
Spain had the ball and during the TO Coach K told the team to play zone as they had been playing man to man the entire game. JB devised the D assignments. Spain was confused the last possession by the zone and the USA won.
After the game K said switching defenses won us this game. He credited the zone on the last play.

I was thinking in a last second situation how confusing it would be if JB had us practicing m2m for a scenario like above. He wouldn't. That is the greatness of K.

 

[Lucid]

I'll be honest and say that I'll take a crappy regular season like last year that results in a Final Four EVERY TIME over what Arizona has been doing.

I'll go out on a limb here and predict that no from out west will make the final four... again. None has since 2008.

 

[Alsacs]

More teams play abut of zone, but it's not the same as the SU zone. Duke played a bit last night and UNC shredded it. Then they switched back to M2M and started burying threes.

Duke beat Louisville because of their zone.
You can't zone UNC. They are too big and rebound so damn good it's giving them extra possessions.

 

[PhatOrange]

It's the same offense that won a national championship. The difference is the players in 2003 were better.

If people want to place blame on something place blame on the recruiting. We weren't able to reload the early departures. It's a rebuild.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Duke beat Louisville because of their zone.
You can't zone UNC. They are too big and rebound so damn good it's giving them extra possessions.

Yeah Meeks was just having his way down low.

 

[Alsacs]

It's the same offense that won a national championship. The difference is the players in 2003 were better.

If people want to place blame on something place blame on the recruiting. We weren't able to reload the early departures. It's a rebuild.

2003 had Carmelo/Hak our best 2 players since Wallace.
It had shooting in GMac, and Duany.

The offense shouldn't be dependent on talent to be decent. We had talent in 2013 and the offense sucked.

If all we need is elite talent to have a decent we aren't winning another NC.

 

[Lucid]

It's the same offense that won a national championship. The difference is the players in 2003 were better.

If people want to place blame on something place blame on the recruiting. We weren't able to reload the early departures. It's a rebuild.

And this likely has more to do with the sanctions than anything else, except maybe JBs retirement.

 

[longislandcuse]

It's the same offense that won a national championship. The difference is the players in 2003 were better.

If people want to place blame on something place blame on the recruiting. We weren't able to reload the early departures. It's a rebuild.

True and I do like the zone but if you have a year where your pg who plays 36 minutes a game is 5'8, maybe don't play zone all game or, at the very least, switch it up when teams get in rhythm against it for a few possessions.

A lot of us aren't anti-zone. We're anti-only zone and the joke of an offense we've devolved into for whatever reason.

 

[Lucid]

Here's a novel idea... how about playing the defense (and offense, for that matter) that best suits the kids you have on the floor, and the situation and opponent they're facing?

 

[PhatOrange]

2003 had Carmelo/Hak our best 2 players since Wallace.
It had shooting in GMac, and Duany.

The offense shouldn't be dependent on talent to be decent. We had talent in 2013 and the offense sucked.

If all we need is elite talent to have a decent we aren't winning another NC.

That's crazy man Kentucky UNC Duke Kansas they're good every year because they have the best players

 

[Alsacs]

That's crazy man Kentucky UNC Duke Kansas they're good every year because they have the best players

Watch Iowa, Notre Dame, UCLA, Creighton, these teams don't have elite talent and their coaches scheme/recruit to a good offense.

The talent on these teams over the past 8 years hasn't been better than us and they all have great offenses.

If JB had Fran McCaffrey's offense with his zone we would have another NC recently IMO.

 

[FrancoPizza]

And this likely has more to do with the sanctions than anything else, except maybe JBs retirement.

Francis knows just a little more than you do and would tell you the staff has nobody to blame but themselves.

 

[PhatOrange]

Watch Iowa, Notre Dame, UCLA, Creighton, these teams don't have elite talent and their coaches scheme/recruit to a good offense.

The talent on these teams over the past 8 years hasn't been better than us and they all have great offenses.

If JB had Fran McCaffrey's offense with his zone we would have another NC recently IMO.

And I take Syracuse every day of the week against those teams in fact Notre Dame is our bitch

 

[Trueblue25]

Our style's not boring. I don't know why anyone would say that. I think there's improvements to be made in our offensive scheme; our tournaments runs have largely been carried by astounding defense. But thats about the only half-complain I have.

 

[Alsacs]

And I take Syracuse every day of the week against those teams in fact Notre Dame is our bitch

They don't have the talent we have gotten. You cited the elite teams. Of course their talent is why they are good.
They aren't winning because of their defense exclusively. They are well rounded. Syracuse hasn't been well rounded since 2012. We made the Final Four in 2013 and 2016 on defense.
We couldn't get over the hump in 2013 because of offense. 2016 we lost to a clearly superior team.

I cited those non Elite teams to show you can have a good offense without needing elite talent. JB cares about the zone. Our offense philosophy sucks and it burns us.

 

[dasher]

Steph Curry.

Every kid is growing up with 3's as the new dunk. Tough to zone teams that have a ton of good shooters and smart basketball players. The ACC has that up and down the conference.

Very frustrating when teams that we are light years ahead of talent wise and athletically beat us because we allow them to dictate tempo and shoot threes with snipers who could normally never get a shot off against a Tyus Battle type.

Part of the problem is that we are not even close of being light years ahead of these teams with talent. That is in our fans eyes. Not in the real world.

 

[dasher]

They don't have the talent we have gotten. You cited the elite teams. Of course their talent is why they are good.
They aren't winning because of their defense exclusively. They are well rounded. Syracuse hasn't been well rounded since 2012. We made the Final Four in 2013 and 2016 on defense.
We couldn't get over the hump in 2013 because of offense. 2016 we lost to a clearly superior team.

I cited those non Elite teams to show you can have a good offense without needing elite talent. JB cares about the zone. Our offense philosophy sucks and it burns us.

We made the final four twice in the last 4 years because of our defense. Hmm Give more more of that. I like final fours.

 

[longislandcuse]

Part of the problem is that we are not even close of being light years ahead of these teams with talent. That is in our fans eyes. Not in the real world.

I think we are in the OOC. Talent vs Talent, even this year, I'm taking ours against UConn, St Johns, Georgetown and even South Carolina on a neutral (should be home for us) court.

 

[Alsacs]

We made the final four twice in the last 4 years because of our defense. Hmm Give more more of that. I like final fours.

I would rather have UConn's 2014 NC over our 2 Final Fours.

They had guys who could actually make shots in a Final Four.

Final Fours are nice but ask me did I enjoy the 18-1 2007 Patriots who lost in the SB or 17-2 2016 Patriots who won the SB more?

I want titles. Relying on one side exclusively won't win it all. 2003 was well rounded.