Our crying need. A true center!

[Biaxtar]

Jonathan Beagle from UAlbany is in the portal. Thoughts?

 

[IthacaMatt]

I posted this is in the Quadir thread, but it belongs in the discussion here:

For a portal center, we have to stop looking at bench players on Top 40 squads.
There are tons of guys playing a level or two down who are good enough to be the center we need.
Get me a guy who is 6-8 / 6-9 and goes about 240 and can step outside and hit a 3.

That kid Southerland for LeMoyne is almost what we should be looking for, except he's about 20 pounds light. The Canisius kid would be a good candidate as a pure center, but I don't think he shoots the 3.

Here's a list of the kind of player I would be looking for as our Portal Center:

DaRon Holmes, Dayton, 6-10, 235 junior, 20 pts, 8 rebounds, 38% from three (!)
Rokas Jocius, LaSalle, 6-10, 260 soph, 8 pts, 5 reb, 38% from three
Rasheer Fleming, St. Joe's, 6-9, 230 soph, 11 pts, 7 reb, 33% from three
Javan Simmons, Toledo, 6-7, 235, 12 pts, 5 reb, 32.7% from 3 as a freshman.
Owen Lobsinger, Western Michigan, 6-9, 225 junior, 9 pts, 6 reb, 37% from three.

 

[IthacaMatt]

It shouldn't be that tough to figure out for a P6 Coach/talent evaluator who do this for a living, and make pretty good coin doing so. With all of these transfers, there have been many instances of players who were POY or DPOY in their low to mid major conference who have done very well in moving up. Conversely, we take a flier on Hima, who was a nothing bagel at Duquense. Realistically, did anyone expect him to be an important cog. Editor's note: Nothing against Hima as he seems like a great teammate and quality Individual.

The key is, if you're going down a level, don't pick a reserve like Hima. Pick a guy who was a star at that level.

 

[W'boro'Cuse315]

Jonathan Beagle from UAlbany is in the portal. Thoughts?

His name is Beagle & he played for the Great Danes. Ipso facto, he has that dawg in him. Want.

 

[CousCuse]

Thanks. Just picked San Diego State to cover.

Go for it, the Costanza affect. I tell you this, it will be a dog fight.

 

[hoopsupstate]

His name is Beagle & he played for the Great Danes. Ipso facto, he has that dawg in him. Want.

Why did he leave the team in January for personal reasons?

 

[IthacaMatt]

If we think we want a lower tier player then thats what we will settle for….if we haven’t learned anything from the football situation we should be aiming for the best

We should be aiming for kids who have proven they can play.
Not bench warmers on good teams. Not injured guys.

We got John Gillon from Colorado State. Great pick up.
We got Elijah Hughes from East Carolina. Great pick up.
We got Andrew White from Nebraska. Great pick up.

Cole Swider wasn't a star at Villanova, but he a couple years of experience as a proven 3 point shooter for them. He wasn't taken based on his measurables or his high school tapes. Great pick up.

Allen Griffin from Illinois, like Swider, had played about 18 minutes a game and shown himself to be a 41% three point shooter vs. the Big 10. Was a very good pick up for us.

What do all of those guys have in common?
They were PROVEN college players.
They were guys NOT who never played.
They were not guys who were coming off injuries.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Why didn’t we recruit this kid out of high school?! He went to powerhouse prep school Monteverde academy.

This is my top pick for us to go after. Had a tremendous year at Dayton.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Bigs take longer to develop, they say.
So there's a chance that we get a junior who can develop.
But... didn't we try that with Macleod?

MacLeod barely played for Florida State. He was great based on the measurables. But we need someone who has shown that they can be a productive college player. Somebody who was a starter, who demonstrated the specific talents that we need right now. We don't need to take guys based on how fast they run or how high they jump. We need BASKETBALL PLAYERS.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Literally anyone with a pulse that’s above 6-10 will help.

They don't have to be 6-10. But they DO have to weigh at least 240.

 

[IthacaMatt]

There’s no room or playing time for a big forward next year. Freeman and Brown will get all the minutes. There’s no way a portal big will look at these two and think he will get minutes next year.

That's rigid thinking. College basketball is much more fluid in terms of who defends the post, because there just aren't enough centers out there anymore for *everyone* to have one. You need a mix of skills and body types.

Any 240 pound guy who can defend the low post is going to find 20 minutes in the rotation, if he has any offensive skills. You have to play 4 or 5 guys in the front court over the course of a game, let alone a season.

 

[Cuse2023]

This is my top pick for us to go after. Had a tremendous year at Dayton.

Well, you can cross him off the list.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Sounds like a lot of people think we’ll be having a totally revamped roster next year. that’s absurd unless lots of current guys leave. Is that what you want? I would personally like to see some continuity. These guys will grow as juniors. Current players aren’t sticking around if we bring in new guys at their positions. You think we need another PF on top of Maliq and Donnie? I mean, are you insane? If we bring in another PF, Maliq is gone. Maybe, maybe we can get a big bodied or muscular center out of the portal so Maliq doesn’t have to man that position full time. That would be a reasonable wish. (Unless they think McLeod can actually develop into a decent player.) And if we try to get a PG out of the portal, you think Q and Chance are sticking around? They’ve probably been told they’ll be the lead guards next year, unless Judah returns.

You're a little too hung up on position labels.

Derrick Coleman - a 4 or a 5?
Rick Jackson - a 4 or a 5?
Terrence Roberts - a 4 or a 5?
Tyler Lydon - a 4 or a 5?
Taurean Thompson - a 4 or a 5?

The correct answer for all of them, of course is "YES". They all played both positions.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Well, you can cross him off the list.

Did he already go somewhere?

 

[Cuse2023]

Did he already go somewhere?

No, but I can promise you he wont be playing at Syracuse next year.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I guess my natural follow up question is: what caliber of center are we talking about here? I think Donnie could probably handle SF defensively, but it's definitely not ideal on the offensive end. So we probably have to either move Maliq to a bench role to make room for a starting caliber center, or we're more in the market for just a backup center that can play increased minutes in certain matchups.

Nobody needs to play 40 minutes. For the 2 bigs, there are 80 minutes.
Plus you can slide somebody like Donnie to the 3 against big opposing lineups.
Three guys could each play 25-30 minutes, and still have about 25-30 minutes for SF, and a handful of minutes for a big shot blocker.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Donnie is a 4/5, not a 3.

No, not really. He's a 4 in college, who wants to move to the three as a pro. He probably sees himself as a Kevin Durant type. He will be expecting to be able to take threes without being benched for it. That's why he's a Mickey Dee's.

 

[IthacaMatt]

No, but I can promise you he wont be playing at Syracuse next year.

That wasn't really the point. He's the kind of guy who is out there who excelled at a 2nd tier school, who is more prepared to step in and start, or at least play meaningful minutes, than the bench guy who played 5 minutes a game for a top school.

 

[IthacaMatt]

If Brown plays 15min at the 4 and Freeman plays 25min at the 4 I think you are going to be getting 20/10 ish out of that position which is great. If we bring in a quality big guy and have Carey/Patterson for emergency usage then I'd be more concerned about bringing in another forward who can shoot than another PF. That said I think #1 priority is a PG who can start from day one. Then a Center as described. After that offensive punch at the wing who is a proven shooter.

PG Portal/Q
SG JJ/Cuffe/Moore
SF Bell/Q
PF Freeman/Brown
C Brown/Portal/whoever stays

I think you have to hope for the best with Westry but plan for him not playing at all. If he's taking someone else's minutes at the 1,2,3 that's likely a good problem to have.

There is an absolute need for more 3 point shooting from the front court. Totally agree.

There are 2 ways to get it into the lineup - a 2nd tier stretch 4/5 who can defend the post and step out and hit a 3; or we can go look for another SF, but then Bell will probably leave if the new guy is starting quality.

 

[Cuse2023]

That wasn't really the point. He's the kind of guy who is out there who excelled at a 2nd tier school, who is more prepared to step in and start, or at least play meaningful minutes, than the bench guy who played 5 minutes a game for a top school.

Yeah, you have something confused. He is a second team all American. Not some guy thats flying under the radar because he plays at Dayton. He will be most likely playing in the NBA next year with the chance of being a first round pick.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I wonder what Maliq is thinking? He wants to play the four, but a McDonald All American is coming in as a four. You connect the dots!

Say it with me, "You need at least 3 forwards." You're not only going to play two for the whole game, let alone the whole season.

Say it again, "You need at least 2 or 3 centers". You can spot Maliq there, you can offer a portal guy 20-25 minutes, if he has some offense, and you have the shot blocker to bring in for spot minutes and foul trouble.

There is plenty of room for everyone to play 25+ minutes and have a deep 8 or 9 man rotation. Red is looking to build a team of interchangeable parts. He doesn't want to play 5 guys for 36+ minutes a game, like Boeheim used to do.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Yeah, you have something confused. He is a second team all American. Not some guy thats flying under the radar because he plays at Dayton. He will be most likely playing in the NBA next year with the chance of being a first round pick.

So, that's fine. Good for him. If he goes to the combine, and they tell him to come back, he has to go somewhere. We offer real playing time for a guy who can score from outside (especially) and defend the low post.

If it's not him, there are at least 30 guys out there who would fill the bill. I listed 5 or 6 right in our backyard in another post.

 

[baggerbob]

You're a little too hung up on position labels.

Derrick Coleman - a 4 or a 5?
Rick Jackson - a 4 or a 5?
Terrence Roberts - a 4 or a 5?
Tyler Lydon - a 4 or a 5?
Taurean Thompson - a 4 or a 5?

The correct answer for all of them, of course is "YES". They all played both positions.

DC dominated at both positions in college, the others Jackson, Roberts and Lyndon were good.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Haven't reached out yet

We're not even one of the first 30 schools to contact him? Must not have been on our "big board".

 

[IthacaMatt]

Jonathan Beagle from UAlbany is in the portal. Thoughts?

I took a look at him before, when I was making my various target lists. I think the level of play is too low, compared to other schools who we should be targeting. Look at MAC schools, Atlantic 10, Big East, and America East schools. Those players should be good enough to make the leap, if they performed well at that level.