Our crying need. A true center! | Page 7 | Syracusefan.com

Our crying need. A true center!

I guess my natural follow up question is: what caliber of center are we talking about here? I think Donnie could probably handle SF defensively, but it's definitely not ideal on the offensive end. So we probably have to either move Maliq to a bench role to make room for a starting caliber center, or we're more in the market for just a backup center that can play increased minutes in certain matchups.
Freeman has more skills than Maliq, but is he a better player? Competition is never bad.
 
That would be ideal, along with a PG.
exactly - i think we need 1 new PF and 1 new C on top of everyone already coming - and that'll mean some outgoing movement, as well, most likely
Sounds like a lot of people think we’ll be having a totally revamped roster next year. that’s absurd unless lots of current guys leave. Is that what you want? I would personally like to see some continuity. These guys will grow as juniors. Current players aren’t sticking around if we bring in new guys at their positions. You think we need another PF on top of Maliq and Donnie? I mean, are you insane? If we bring in another PF, Maliq is gone. Maybe, maybe we can get a big bodied or muscular center out of the portal so Maliq doesn’t have to man that position full time. That would be a reasonable wish. (Unless they think McLeod can actually develop into a decent player.) And if we try to get a PG out of the portal, you think Q and Chance are sticking around? They’ve probably been told they’ll be the lead guards next year, unless Judah returns.
 
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Sounds like a lot of people think we’ll be having a totally revamped roster next year. that’s absurd unless lots of current guys leave.
I think fans and even people with some inside connections are all over the place from running everything back to a total revamped roster. There's zero consensus about what will happen - except Judah being gone.
 
I guess my natural follow up question is: what caliber of center are we talking about here? I think Donnie could probably handle SF defensively, but it's definitely not ideal on the offensive end. So we probably have to either move Maliq to a bench role to make room for a starting caliber center, or we're more in the market for just a backup center that can play increased minutes in certain matchups.

Can Donnie play the 3 on offense and Maliq a physical stretch 4 who also can be a point forward operating out of the high post? His shot looks good when he’s taken it. Form and footwork are solid.
 
Can Donnie play the 3 on offense and Maliq a physical stretch 4 who also can be a point forward operating out of the high post? His shot looks good when he’s taken it. Form and footwork are solid.
Donnie is a 4/5, not a 3.
 
Can Donnie play the 3 on offense and Maliq a physical stretch 4 who also can be a point forward operating out of the high post? His shot looks good when he’s taken it. Form and footwork are solid.
I think the spacing with Donnie at the 3 and presumably Quadir at the 1 would likely be brutal barring some development from the two of them.
 
I think the spacing with Donnie at the 3 and presumably Quadir at the 1 would likely be brutal barring some development from the two of them.

Sort of where I was trying to sort out who can play with who. Q would obviously have to be a threat as a shooter in that instance. Thus if you don’t play Donnie and Maliq together you have to play one or the other then which is fine for stretches but then limits your options for reeling in a 5 in the portal if you want to keep Brown.
 
Sounds like a lot of people think we’ll be having a totally revamped roster next year. that’s absurd unless lots of current guys leave. Is that what you want? I would personally like to see some continuity. These guys will grow as juniors. Current players aren’t sticking around if we bring in new guys at their positions. You think we need another PF on top of Maliq and Donnie? I mean, are you insane? If we bring in another PF, Maliq is gone. Maybe, maybe we can get a big bodied or muscular center out of the portal so Maliq doesn’t have to man that position full time. That would be a reasonable wish. (Unless they think McLeod can actually develop into a decent player.) And if we try to get a PG out of the portal, you think Q and Chance are sticking around? They’ve probably been told they’ll be the lead guards next year, unless Judah returns.
Yes. I want two guys on the roster that won't get big boyed. Call them forwards or call them centers. I don't care. Good teams don't rely on 220 lb forwards to bang with actual big men. Tennessee plays a guy that's 6'11" 240 and backs him up with another that's 6'8" 250 lb. They can be physical and they don't have lead in their feet. Then they have a freshman getting spot minutes that's 6'11" 240. Then they found an all world guard from Northern Colorado that outweighs most of our forwards and centers and scores over 20ppg in less than 30mpg. That's what a team fighting for a 1 seed looks like. Our roster is one that lives on the bubble. We just got manhandled by a future 5 seed. If players are afraid to compete and get their feelings hurt, I don't care that much. If incumbents are better and they get the minutes, we have essentially the same team with more big guys to lean on other big guys when called upon. If new guys beat out incumbents, then great, we've upgraded. We're not talking about a final four team that we're afraid to break up. Nobody currently on this roster is someone that can't be recruited over or we'd be talking about what seed and what region we were going to be in two weeks from now. Trying to find 2-3 guys that fill glaring holes and get us back to where we all expect to get to isn't crazy.
 
exactly - i think we need 1 new PF and 1 new C on top of everyone already coming - and that'll mean some outgoing movement, as well, most likely
Or, hear me out...

We need dramatic improvement from our existing players. McLeod coming back healthy and effective, Carey giving us the sophomore to junior leap we have seem so often, or Patterson surprising us after a productive redshirt would do the trick.

For some reason, I'm really expecting Carey to take a massive leap. I can't put my finger on it, other than he's tall, athletic and goofy. Those guys sometimes stop being goofy and start just being tall and athletic. He's in the same boat as Cuffe, coming to Syracuse off of two years of injury.

Players do get better.

At any rate, Brown, Bell and Freeman make a very good core frontcourt. We're looking for a center or centers that can bang with the biggest opposing players, hold their own, and not get dominated on the boards.

Red has shown an inclination to play small anyway. Any center is likely to watch Brown play in his spot for at least half the game.
 
Donnie is a 4/5, not a 3.
I think the question was essentially "can Freeman and Brown play together effectively if we do get a center?"

I think we probably would be ok, as long as the center is good offensively. Freeman and Brown both have developing shots and other skulls that make them playable even when they aren't making shots.

How about:

Portal center, Brown, Freeman, Bell, portal PG?
 
Yes. I want two guys on the roster that won't get big boyed. Call them forwards or call them centers. I don't care. Good teams don't rely on 220 lb forwards to bang with actual big men. Tennessee plays a guy that's 6'11" 240 and backs him up with another that's 6'8" 250 lb. They can be physical and they don't have lead in their feet. Then they have a freshman getting spot minutes that's 6'11" 240. Then they found an all world guard from Northern Colorado that outweighs most of our forwards and centers and scores over 20ppg in less than 30mpg. That's what a team fighting for a 1 seed looks like. Our roster is one that lives on the bubble. We just got manhandled by a future 5 seed. If players are afraid to compete and get their feelings hurt, I don't care that much. If incumbents are better and they get the minutes, we have essentially the same team with more big guys to lean on other big guys when called upon. If new guys beat out incumbents, then great, we've upgraded. We're not talking about a final four team that we're afraid to break up. Nobody currently on this roster is someone that can't be recruited over or we'd be talking about what seed and what region we were going to be in two weeks from now. Trying to find 2-3 guys that fill glaring holes and get us back to where we all expect to get to isn't crazy.
One talented big boy center is a realistic goal to get from the portal. We’re not gonna add another PF on top of that. We’ll already have Maliq and Freeman at PF, and those guys are gonna play all of the minutes. Plus we’ll probably have McLeod as a backup center.

As for small forward I’d love to see us add a Dalton Knect type experienced scorer/shooter at that spot. But Bell might leave in that case. I don’t know if he’ll stick around to become a backup.
 
Or, hear me out...

We need dramatic improvement from our existing players. McLeod coming back healthy and effective, Carey giving us the sophomore to junior leap we have seem so often, or Patterson surprising us after a productive redshirt would do the trick.

For some reason, I'm really expecting Carey to take a massive leap. I can't put my finger on it, other than he's tall, athletic and goofy. Those guys sometimes stop being goofy and start just being tall and athletic. He's in the same boat as Cuffe, coming to Syracuse off of two years of injury.

Players do get better.

At any rate, Brown, Bell and Freeman make a very good core frontcourt. We're looking for a center or centers that can bang with the biggest opposing players, hold their own, and not get dominated on the boards.

Red has shown an inclination to play small anyway. Any center is likely to watch Brown play in his spot for at least half the game.
you wanna bet on players that have never shown they are good enough - have never shown much potential - to all of a sudden become good?

isnt easier to simply go find upper classmen in the portal who have actually put numbers on the board before? thats my preference.

none of the current options is going to become a beast scorer down low. at least thats the way it looks...

the team needs someone who can score in the POST

if Patterson all of a sudden is great next season - it is going be super annoying - because that would mean he was likely an option this year too. (but im not holding my breath on that)

did you watch the clemson game? did you watch hall brutalize brown and schefflien brutalize taylor and copeland?

brown is a good player but a tweener...he cannot matchup against elite centers/even PFs...he can dominate weak players but that isnt really the bar, is it?

a forntcourt of bell brown and freeman would not be near good enough defensively. it would get brutalized the same way this years team did. if red wants that - he will have another disappointing season on his hands. im surprised you would have watched this season and have such an opinion.

watching half a season of mcleod was enough to convince me that he wont ever get to the level necessary to be the clear starter and presence necessary.. hed be a great (maybe 2nd)/3rd string center, though...for the right matchups.

IF you wanna win the ACC etc go to the tourney etc...you need scoring in the post. you need a team that can shut down teams scoring down low.

my frontline for next year would be portal C - brown and freeman

bell can play shooting guard too btw

thats basically what he is...hes never been a forward anyway

bell brown freeman do not make a very good core frontcourt bc brown will always be undersized against any big frontcourt - and almost all good teams have big frontcourts...theres a correlation

freeman could be amazing next year - but benny was a 5 star too

big assumption that any freshman will come and automatically be a star player from day 1.
 
With no inside info whatsoever but by reading the tea leaves of many of the respected posters on the site, this would be my guess.

Mintz, Hima, Taylor and Bell(if he stays I can't see him playing the 2, his dribbling is not good) gone to the portal.

Starting lineup. Portal PG(who is capable from 3), Starling, Freeman, Brown and Portal Center.

Bench. Copeland(6th man), Portal F, Cuffe, Westry, Moore, Carey and McLeod.
 
One talented big boy center is a realistic goal to get from the portal. We’re not gonna add another PF on top of that. We’ll already have Maliq and Freeman at PF, and those guys are gonna play all of the minutes. Plus we’ll probably have McLeod as a backup center.

As for small forward I’d love to see us add a Dalton Knect type experienced scorer/shooter at that spot. But Bell might leave in that case. I don’t know if he’ll stick around to become a backup.
I'm not talking about what I think will actually happen. I'm talking about what I want and what I think we need if we truly want to compete with elite teams. Unless we're going to get a Holmgren or Wembanyama unicorn to block shots on defense and bomb threes on offense, I want a thicker guy at the 5 that can be a good post scorer and not get backed under the basket on defense while grabbing rebounds for 25-30mpg and another who is similar to back him up.

Why can other teams, good teams, have options and keep people from leaving when their best guy averages less than 30 mpg and we can't?

If we did have the chance to get a guy like Knect, and I'm not saying we do, why would we care one bit if Bell or anyone else left because they lost their spot?

Do we want to be elite at some point? Freeman is a great add, but he does not solve all of our problems in the front court.
 
With no inside info whatsoever but by reading the tea leaves of many of the respected posters on the site, this would be my guess.

Mintz, Hima, Taylor and Bell(if he stays I can't see him playing the 2, his dribbling is not good) gone to the portal.

Starting lineup. Portal PG(who is capable from 3), Starling, Freeman, Brown and Portal Center.

Bench. Copeland(6th man), Portal F, Cuffe, Westry, Moore, Carey and McLeod.

This seems like the most logical outcome.
 
We can win with Brown at the 5 but never contend for anything other then low seed. He's a tweener who needs to play the 4. He needs to extend his game to mid range.
Freeman, Brown are an odd match but can probably work together. I don't know Patterson game but Carey seems to be the best fit at 5 if Brown and Freeman are on the court at the same time. JJ at the 2 and I guess Cope at the 1.
This doesn't excite me as we don't have any true shooters but we would be really big and Athletic.
 
Or, hear me out...

We need dramatic improvement from our existing players. McLeod coming back healthy and effective, Carey giving us the sophomore to junior leap we have seem so often, or Patterson surprising us after a productive redshirt would do the trick.

For some reason, I'm really expecting Carey to take a massive leap. I can't put my finger on it, other than he's tall, athletic and goofy. Those guys sometimes stop being goofy and start just being tall and athletic. He's in the same boat as Cuffe, coming to Syracuse off of two years of injury.

Players do get better.

At any rate, Brown, Bell and Freeman make a very good core frontcourt. We're looking for a center or centers that can bang with the biggest opposing players, hold their own, and not get dominated on the boards.

Red has shown an inclination to play small anyway. Any center is likely to watch Brown play in his spot for at least half the game.

Reality:

McLeod - too slow but a decent 2nd string option for 7-9mins a game.

Carey - classic syracuse beanpole center project that (unless he puts on 30 lbs of pure muscle) will be bossed by most P5 centers.

Patterson - who knows?? but 7'-2" 220 lbs. #33 center in his recruiting class and #10 in NY state... sounds like another beanpole project unfortunately.

Portal... We went after Dickinson last year and wound up with McLeod instead. If we had gotten Dickinson, we're prolly dancing right now.

What Red is able to do in the portal this year for a real center and PG will be telling... If he can get quality, we can put some real pieces together next year to be good...
 
Reality:

McLeod - too slow but a decent 2nd string option for 7-9mins a game.

Carey - classic syracuse beanpole center project that (unless he puts on 30 lbs of pure muscle) will be bossed by most P5 centers.

Patterson - who knows?? but 7'-2" 220 lbs. #33 center in his recruiting class and #10 in NY state... sounds like another beanpole project unfortunately.

Portal... We went after Dickinson last year and wound up with McLeod instead. If we had gotten Dickinson, we're prolly dancing right now.

What Red is able to do in the portal this year for a real center and PG will be telling... If he can get quality, we can put some real pieces together next year to be good...

I see the center position similarly.

-McCleod: (healthy) could be a valuable backup for 10-15 minutes however he doesn't address our biggest weakness and he was a last minute band aide when brought in. The more I think about it the less likely it is that he will be back.

-Carey: not a lost cause, has potential but again doesn't address the weakness of not having a big strong guy who can hold his own in the paint.

-Patterson: a complete wildcard and again a string bean.

-Brown: Is a PF. I'm fine with him as the starting 5 next year alongside Freeman and Bell. But he should play about half his minutes at the PF spot. We need a big strong kid who can give us 25+ at the center spot. Let the rotation figure itself out from there. I think Red would prefer 4 guys playing 30min and 4 guys playing 20min plus some decent depth at the 9/10 spot.
 
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I see the center position similarly.

-McCleod: (healthy) could be a valuable backup for 10-15 minutes however he doesn't address our biggest weakness and he was a last minute band aide when brought in. The more I think about it the less likely it is that he will be back.

-Carey: not a lost cause, has potential but again doesn't address the weakness of not having a big strong guy who can hold his own in the paint.

-Patterson: a complete wildcard and again a string bean.

-Brown: Is a PF. I'm fine with him as the starting 5 next year alongside Freeman and Bell. But he should play about half his minutes at the PF spot. We need a big strong kid who can give us 25+ at the center spot. Let the rotation figure itself out from there. I think Red would prefer 4 guys playing 30min and 4 guys playing 20min plus some decent depth at the 9/10 spot.
First, I like Maliq a lot. Exactly what do you envision what PF Syracuse needs or must have? Malik is an excellent player but is not a 12-15 point a game player, at least not in the current offense that is being employed. We need a guaranteed player that can lead in rebounding (10-12 rebounds) and provide decent scoring 10-15 points a game) and play hard on the defensive end.

Maliq can do all that now but needs help on rebounding and on defense meaning he can not be the single or only one in this role. As we all know He needs on the court support. Freeman will help but Bell nor Taylor are not. Syracuse has to get away from the single point of attack (aka Judah) and have more players involved in the offense. Whenever the ball goes up, at least 2-3 players (not only 1) need to crash the boards.
 
I'm not talking about what I think will actually happen. I'm talking about what I want and what I think we need if we truly want to compete with elite teams. Unless we're going to get a Holmgren or Wembanyama unicorn to block shots on defense and bomb threes on offense, I want a thicker guy at the 5 that can be a good post scorer and not get backed under the basket on defense while grabbing rebounds for 25-30mpg and another who is similar to back him up.

Why can other teams, good teams, have options and keep people from leaving when their best guy averages less than 30 mpg and we can't?

If we did have the chance to get a guy like Knect, and I'm not saying we do, why would we care one bit if Bell or anyone else left because they lost their spot?

Do we want to be elite at some point? Freeman is a great add, but he does not solve all of our problems in the front court.
You’re never going to get two centers with those skills and talent out of the portal. Unless the backup is someone unproven or with previously mediocre results. One skilled, big bodied center is gonna be tough to land but is at least a realistic goal. Most other teams don’t have two centers like that. UConn last year was the only team I can think of that had that much size and skill depth at the center spot last season with Sanogo and Clingan.
 
Reality:

McLeod - too slow but a decent 2nd string option for 7-9mins a game.

Carey - classic syracuse beanpole center project that (unless he puts on 30 lbs of pure muscle) will be bossed by most P5 centers.

Patterson - who knows?? but 7'-2" 220 lbs. #33 center in his recruiting class and #10 in NY state... sounds like another beanpole project unfortunately.

Portal... We went after Dickinson last year and wound up with McLeod instead. If we had gotten Dickinson, we're prolly dancing right now.

What Red is able to do in the portal this year for a real center and PG will be telling... If he can get quality, we can put some real pieces together next year to be good...
We forgot Hima

The fact that Red didnt put either him or Carey in against Clemson for a hail mary attempt on Defense to stop getting abused inside, tells me they cant seriously be in next years plans.
 

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