Our Half-court Offense: The Theory, Problems, and Possible Solutions (A tad long)

[Coach Orange]

Coach Orange: This has been an interesting read. Either you are an astute observer at games, a past player, or have an inside seat at practices. Can you give us a hint?

I'm not a former player, nor am I sitting in on our practices. I would like to observe one of Coach B's practices at some point, though. I'm sure that I would learn a ton.

I guess you could say that I'm the astute observer--a coach (at the lower levels) who loves the game. I've coached basketball at a variety of levels (not college). I really enjoy teaching the game to kids of all ages. Coaching has provided wonderful learning experiences for me--in terms of game strategy/management, player development, and life in general.

Because of this, I'm a voracious student of the game. I study the game as often as I can, trying to learn as much as I can about different offenses, defenses, fundamentals, etc. I've soaked in knowledge from working with the coaches of a local high school (who have or had relationships with Coach Boeheim and his staff over the years), picking the brain of other coaches about their philosophies and planning, observing practices, reading books, and watching DVDs (Championship Productions, Basketball Sense). I highly recommend the DVDs for those who want to learn the X's and O's of the game straight from the coaches' mouths. Just a warning--they run around $40 a pop; you may want to see if you can find them on eBay or Amazon, or borrow them from someone who owns them.

Some of the coaches whose offensive and/or defensive strategies I have studied are Coach B, Jim Calhoun (helps to know your enemy), Bill Self, Jeff Van Gundy, Gregg Popovich, Gary Williams, Roy Williams, John Calipari, Vance Walberg, Ben Braun, Dick Bennett, Bo Ryan, Jay Wright, Tubby Smith, and John Wooden, amongst others. Of course, being a passionate SU fan who grew up on Orange basketball, the coach I have studied the most is Coach Boeheim.

One quick point--I have taught plays from the SU half-court offense to kids from modified through varsity. Kids that are in 7th grade can run it effectively with practice. This is how I know it is a sound offense--it's simple but effective. This is also how I know ways that it can be modified--because I have tweaked it based on how teams have defended it. This does not mean that my tweaks are "right" or the only ones possible; it just means they have worked for my players with varying degrees of success. I loved reading some of the ideas that others shared in this thread--they definitely got me thinking about how the offense could be improved.

The amazing thing is that there is always something else to learn about basketball.

I hope this gives you a "hint."

 

[Marsh01]

I'm not a former player, nor am I sitting in on our practices. I would like to observe one of Coach B's practices at some point, though. I'm sure that I would learn a ton.

I guess you could say that I'm the astute observer--a coach (at the lower levels) who loves the game. I've coached basketball at a variety of levels (not college). I really enjoy teaching the game to kids of all ages. Coaching has provided wonderful learning experiences for me--in terms of game strategy/management, player development, and life in general.

Because of this, I'm a voracious student of the game. I study the game as often as I can, trying to learn as much as I can about different offenses, defenses, fundamentals, etc. I've soaked in knowledge from working with the coaches of a local high school (who have or had relationships with Coach Boeheim and his staff over the years), picking the brain of other coaches about their philosophies and planning, observing practices, reading books, and watching DVDs (Championship Productions, Basketball Sense). I highly recommend the DVDs for those who want to learn the X's and O's of the game straight from the coaches' mouths. Just a warning--they run around $40 a pop; you may want to see if you can find them on eBay or Amazon, or borrow them from someone who owns them.

Some of the coaches whose offensive and/or defensive strategies I have studied are Coach B, Jim Calhoun (helps to know your enemy), Bill Self, Jeff Van Gundy, Gregg Popovich, Gary Williams, Roy Williams, John Calipari, Vance Walberg, Ben Braun, Dick Bennett, Bo Ryan, Jay Wright, Tubby Smith, and John Wooden, amongst others. Of course, being a passionate SU fan who grew up on Orange basketball, the coach I have studied the most is Coach Boeheim.

One quick point--I have taught plays from the SU half-court offense to kids from modified through varsity. Kids that are in 7th grade can run it effectively with practice. This is how I know it is a sound offense--it's simple but effective. This is also how I know ways that it can be modified--because I have tweaked it based on how teams have defended it. This does not mean that my tweaks are "right" or the only ones possible; it just means they have worked for my players with varying degrees of success. I loved reading some of the ideas that others shared in this thread--they definitely got me thinking about how the offense could be improved.

The amazing thing is that there is always something else to learn about basketball.

I hope this gives you a "hint."

Good stuff. Keep posting.

 

[MCC]

I'm not a former player, nor am I sitting in on our practices. I would like to observe one of Coach B's practices at some point, though. I'm sure that I would learn a ton.

I guess you could say that I'm the astute observer--a coach (at the lower levels) who loves the game. I've coached basketball at a variety of levels (not college). I really enjoy teaching the game to kids of all ages. Coaching has provided wonderful learning experiences for me--in terms of game strategy/management, player development, and life in general.

Because of this, I'm a voracious student of the game. I study the game as often as I can, trying to learn as much as I can about different offenses, defenses, fundamentals, etc. I've soaked in knowledge from working with the coaches of a local high school (who have or had relationships with Coach Boeheim and his staff over the years), picking the brain of other coaches about their philosophies and planning, observing practices, reading books, and watching DVDs (Championship Productions, Basketball Sense). I highly recommend the DVDs for those who want to learn the X's and O's of the game straight from the coaches' mouths. Just a warning--they run around $40 a pop; you may want to see if you can find them on eBay or Amazon, or borrow them from someone who owns them.

Some of the coaches whose offensive and/or defensive strategies I have studied are Coach B, Jim Calhoun (helps to know your enemy), Bill Self, Jeff Van Gundy, Gregg Popovich, Gary Williams, Roy Williams, John Calipari, Vance Walberg, Ben Braun, Dick Bennett, Bo Ryan, Jay Wright, Tubby Smith, and John Wooden, amongst others. Of course, being a passionate SU fan who grew up on Orange basketball, the coach I have studied the most is Coach Boeheim.

One quick point--I have taught plays from the SU half-court offense to kids from modified through varsity. Kids that are in 7th grade can run it effectively with practice. This is how I know it is a sound offense--it's simple but effective. This is also how I know ways that it can be modified--because I have tweaked it based on how teams have defended it. This does not mean that my tweaks are "right" or the only ones possible; it just means they have worked for my players with varying degrees of success. I loved reading some of the ideas that others shared in this thread--they definitely got me thinking about how the offense could be improved.

The amazing thing is that there is always something else to learn about basketball.

I hope this gives you a "hint."

This guy is who Igor wishes he could be

 

[Oakland]

we have no man offense sans one on one because we can't practice against man. u saw the ncaa in a nutshell. we'll go as far as we can until we meet a uconnish team early on. unlike u the committee knows hoops and our opponents will be picked accordingly. u will make excuses, but jb knows as much as u do. nada.

For all the newbies sake, SU plays MTM 90% of the time in practice.

 

[Oakland]

By Coach Boeheim's own admission, it is a "simple" offense that uses set plays to get the ball to our best players in spots they can score.

CO - this is the first time I've ever see anyone describe SU's offensse. SU never seems to have a low post offense. I have concluded that JB either ignores it or doesn't know how to coach it. Your OP would suggest the answer is that our center is never our best player, and therefore, JB ignores it. If we have one, please discuss SU's low post offense? Thx.

 

[orangecuse]

Fair point, Sgt. If asked in public, I think Boeheim would actually agree with you. However, his recruiting seems to be linked to our defensive philosophy (long, lean athletes that can take up space with their length in the zone), and his in-game coaching choices tend to suggest that he is really more focused on defense during games. He tends to pull players faster for their defensive lapses than offensive ones. If he really slanted toward offense, you would think his "teaching" points would be aimed at that during game action.

That said, I'm not strongly disagreeing with you--a coach has to balance both offense and defense, and he will try to get the best players he can to fill both. An example in your favor, though--Carmelo wasn't brought here for defense alone.

Great original post! In regards to what I highlighted above, maybe it's because, for the mostpart, defense is inherently more to do with mindset, focus and effort, something apparently easier to execute or control than the various skillset, etc. that comes into play more on the offensive end. Therefore, naturally more leeway.

Whether it's good analysis or analysis paralysis, at the end of the day, as JB eluded to in his presser last night, it's difficult to win when you don't put the ball in the hole, simple as that. Specifically refering to the UConn game, JB stated Brandon was 0 for 7 from 3 range, tonight he was 4-7. And, had he gone 4-7 against UConn, it's a different game. Also, went on to say Boatright missed all his outside shots today against 'Nova...wasn't the case against us. Claiming, that's basketball...

 

[SoBeCuse]

Thanks. I appreciate that.

Cross screens for Rak. Really liked that suggestion. Good call. Boeheim isn't stupid and he knows this team better than anybody. Some players may have trouble executing various sets we don't see in practice. I just want to see higher percentage shots. My guess is that Boeheim is in a predicament. We don't shoot well and our post game is non-existent but our best chance to win is to get shooters free for jump shots even though we aren't making defenses work very hard. The good defenses that is. Seton Hall was absolutely terrible. Last year's team would've beaten them by 30+. I would like to see higher pct shots closer to the rim but that ain't gonna happen I fear.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Love your normal responses. Totally wrong and pure BS which you are so very famous for, but thats you. Blind ignorant hatred can do that to a "person".

Igor = Gollum

 

[stuckinbig11]

I'm not a former player, nor am I sitting in on our practices. I would like to observe one of Coach B's practices at some point, though. I'm sure that I would learn a ton.

I guess you could say that I'm the astute observer--a coach (at the lower levels) who loves the game. I've coached basketball at a variety of levels (not college). I really enjoy teaching the game to kids of all ages. Coaching has provided wonderful learning experiences for me--in terms of game strategy/management, player development, and life in general.

Because of this, I'm a voracious student of the game. I study the game as often as I can, trying to learn as much as I can about different offenses, defenses, fundamentals, etc. I've soaked in knowledge from working with the coaches of a local high school (who have or had relationships with Coach Boeheim and his staff over the years), picking the brain of other coaches about their philosophies and planning, observing practices, reading books, and watching DVDs (Championship Productions, Basketball Sense). I highly recommend the DVDs for those who want to learn the X's and O's of the game straight from the coaches' mouths. Just a warning--they run around $40 a pop; you may want to see if you can find them on eBay or Amazon, or borrow them from someone who owns them.

Some of the coaches whose offensive and/or defensive strategies I have studied are Coach B, Jim Calhoun (helps to know your enemy), Bill Self, Jeff Van Gundy, Gregg Popovich, Gary Williams, Roy Williams, John Calipari, Vance Walberg, Ben Braun, Dick Bennett, Bo Ryan, Jay Wright, Tubby Smith, and John Wooden, amongst others. Of course, being a passionate SU fan who grew up on Orange basketball, the coach I have studied the most is Coach Boeheim.

One quick point--I have taught plays from the SU half-court offense to kids from modified through varsity. Kids that are in 7th grade can run it effectively with practice. This is how I know it is a sound offense--it's simple but effective. This is also how I know ways that it can be modified--because I have tweaked it based on how teams have defended it. This does not mean that my tweaks are "right" or the only ones possible; it just means they have worked for my players with varying degrees of success. I loved reading some of the ideas that others shared in this thread--they definitely got me thinking about how the offense could be improved.

The amazing thing is that there is always something else to learn about basketball.

I hope this gives you a "hint."

Thank you. Many of us are self-confessed basketball junkies who have played and coached at various levels, but you seem to rise far above the crowd. Keep your insight coming; we appreciate it.

 

[Ghost]

I completely agree--it will happen eventually. I just don't know if things will fall into place THIS YEAR, given that we have many of the other ingredients needed to legitimately contend / make a postseason run.

I hope you guys are right - he showed some good fire at times, something Rak lacks, but I didn't see a ton of encouraging signs thus far. I think he'll be good, but maybe not what anyone expected coming in.

 

[Coach Orange]

Great original post! In regards to what I highlighted above, maybe it's because, for the mostpart, defense is inherently more to do with mindset, focus and effort, something apparently easier to execute or control than the various skillset, etc. that comes into play more on the offensive end. Therefore, naturally more leeway.

Whether it's good analysis or analysis paralysis, at the end of the day, as JB eluded to in his presser last night, it's difficult to win when you don't put the ball in the hole, simple as that. Specifically refering to the UConn game, JB stated Brandon was 0 for 7 from 3 range, tonight he was 4-7. And, had he gone 4-7 against UConn, it's a different game. Also, went on to say Boatright missed all his outside shots today against 'Nova...wasn't the case against us. Claiming, that's basketball...

You're right--it's a simple game, really. If you score more than the opponent, you win. The rest of the game is trying to figure out how to best do this. This requires getting shots to fall. Some nights, even when the shots are good shots within the offense, they just don't fall. Obviously, better players and teams face this problem less frequently, but it still happens.

 

[Coach Orange]

Thank you. Many of us are self-confessed basketball junkies who have played and coached at various levels, but you seem to rise far above the crowd. Keep your insight coming; we appreciate it.

I appreciate the compliment. I will continue to provide insight as long as people like it.

 

[Gabjon]

You're right--it's a simple game, really. If you score more than the opponent, you win. The rest of the game is trying to figure out how to best do this. This requires getting shots to fall. Some nights, even when the shots are good shots within the offense, they just don't fall. Obviously, better players and teams face this problem less frequently, but it still happens.

To your point Triche got the same shots against SH as he did vs UConn...

 

[Coach Orange]

By Coach Boeheim's own admission, it is a "simple" offense that uses set plays to get the ball to our best players in spots they can score.

CO - this is the first time I've ever see anyone describe SU's offensse. SU never seems to have a low post offense. I have concluded that JB either ignores it or doesn't know how to coach it. Your OP would suggest the answer is that our center is never our best player, and therefore, JB ignores it. If we have one, please discuss SU's low post offense? Thx.

I'm not sure that Coach Boeheim runs many plays solely to get the ball to the 5-man/center. I'm sure this is, in part, due to rarely having offensively skilled big men. However, when we have them, we find ways to get the ball to them in the post.

We do have a "Corner" play that has a big-man option. The 1 passes to the wing and then cuts to the strong-side corner. The 4 replaces him at the elbow/top of the key, clearing the lane so the 5 is one-on-one with his defender in the post. While the four cuts, the wing player looks to feed the 5 in the post. If it isn't there, he passes to the cutting 4 at the elbow/top of the key. The 5 should seal his defender outside (since the assumption is the defender had to be outside to discourage the post feed from the wing), and the 4 tries to dump it down to him for the bucket. If that isn't there, the 4 reverses the ball to the opposite wing. The 5 follows the ball--posting up on the opposite block. The original wing (who is now the weak-side wing) and 4 then set a stagger screen for the 1, who cuts to the top, looking for a 3-pointer. This is similar to Bill Self's High-Low Motion. I think "Corner" would be the best set play (other than pick and roll) for the 5 this season given our bigs.

That said, we do have post-ups built into plays. These are designed to get the ball to a skilled big man (Arinze or Rick are examples). You can see these post-ups in the offense this year--when we run Triche and Fair (or Southerland) off of the baseline down screens in plays like "2" or "3," the post player, after setting his screen, can seal his defender in order to receive a pass.

The problem this season has been the execution of the fundamentals by our bigs. Rak's footwork isn't where it needs to be to have a consistent post-up game. DC can post-up, but he tends to bring the ball down where it gets stripped. Both players tend to rush in the post, which is never a good thing for finishing shots. Baye also rushes when he receives the ball in the post, probably because he feels he has to get the ball up before it is ripped from him due to his lack of strength.

Because of these limitations in our post players' offensive skills the last two years, I think Boeheim's answer for involving our bigs has been to run pick and roll. This allows the ball handler to make the play by passing to a moving big man who just has to catch and finish. Fab became a solid pick-and-roll player, allowing him to contribute on offense despite lacking a strong post-up move. As we have seen, though, this is not always a cinch--Baye has received several passes while rolling to the hoop that he hasn't finished. He's not alone.

To be fair, as several board posters have pointed out recently, our perimeter players rarely look to pass to the bigs, especially when they are posting-up. This is not an easy skill to teach--the perimeter player has to be patient and see the post. Then, he has to accurately pass into the post so the big can retain his position on the defender. This can be a difficult pass that, most often, needs to be made from the wing (unless running a high-low with the lane cleared of help). I don't know how much this skill is worked on in our practices. For what it's worth, Gary Williams used to run drills that refined this skill every day in practice.

I hope this helps answer your question.

 

[Coach Orange]

Just a quick addition to the last post:

Not that Coach Boeheim needs my help--his 900+ wins show he doesn't--but if I were trying to get Rak or DC a touch, I would run a back screen to free him on our high ball screen.

Assuming we use Rak--As Rak sets the high ball screen, his defender is likely to hard hedge to slow MCW down (this is how most teams have played this in recent games, and MCW has struggled against it at times). When Rak's defender hedges out to slow MCW, I would have Southerland, Fair, or Grant set a back screen for him--this is a screen-the-screener action that is tough to defend. This would give Rak a step. If MCW drags the dribble, he should have a good angle to hit the rolling Rak for an easy hoop.

This would get Rak involved, and it would discourage that hard hedge that defenses have used to slow MCW up. If the defense switches so that Southerland/Fair/Grant's man takes Rak, he should have a mismatch in the paint. Whether he could make a solid move to score in that situation remains to be seen, though.

Just a thought.

 

[Flacusian]

Holy Smokes! Coach Orange, thanks! I've learned more about strategy from your posts in this thread than anything else I've ever seen on this or any board. Kudos!

 

[albanycuse]

I gotta disagree coach. We are more of a run n gun team than a team that does well in the half court set. Our half court offense looks good when we have a great one on one player and when someone's hot and hitting shots.


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[orange79]

we have no man offense sans one on one because we can't practice against man. u saw the ncaa in a nutshell. we'll go as far as we can until we meet a uconnish team early on. unlike u the committee knows hoops and our opponents will be picked accordingly. u will make excuses, but jb knows as much as u do. nada.

Well, there you go cuseguy. You don't know s***, JB doesn't know s***, and the committee's main focus is the make sure they put teams in front of us that we can't beat.

Igg's - have you changed your tinfoil hat lately?

 

[Coach Orange]

I gotta disagree coach. We are more of a run n gun team than a team that does well in the half court set. Our half court offense looks good when we have a great one on one player and when someone's hot and hitting shots.


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This thread wasn't started to debate whether we were a better half-court offense than transition offense. In that argument, I would totally agree with you. In fact, according to one of his DVDs, Coach Boeheim stresses our running game to the team--both in philosophy and in how he structures drills. Hence, he would agree with you, too.

The point of this thread was purely to examine the half-court offense itself.

 

[albanycuse]

This thread wasn't started to debate whether we were a better half-court offense than transition offense. In that argument, I would totally agree with you. In fact, according to one of his DVDs, Coach Boeheim stresses our running game to the team--both in philosophy and in how he structures drills. Hence, he would agree with you, too.

The point of this thread was purely to examine the half-court offense itself.

Sorry my man i misinterpreted your post then.


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[Coach Orange]

Sorry my man i misinterpreted your post then.


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No worries at all.

 

[LetMeIn]

Given that we seem to struggle to score in the half court, questions about our offense pop up quite a bit. Many fans claim that we don't really run a half-court offense--that Coach Boeheim just "rolls the ball out" and lets the players play. That just isn't true. The Syracuse half-court offense is a quick-hitting, set-play offense designed to let the best players make plays...

I just wanted to say what a great post this is. I have never heard/read the Syracuse offense explained so well. I didn't realize how much I learned from this thread until last nights game. Being able to recognize the plays and understand what the team was looking for made the game that much more enjoyable for me. Thank you.

 

[Coach Orange]

I just wanted to say what a great post this is. I have never heard/read the Syracuse offense explained so well. I didn't realize how much I learned from this thread until last nights game. Being able to recognize the plays and understand what the team was looking for made the game that much more enjoyable for me. Thank you.

You're welcome. I'm glad that it helped add to your enjoyment of the game.