Our offensive ineptitude

[RandomGuy]

Erv phillips was a good college Player... Maybe 1 rung below an NFL player in talent. Even in ED's last year the warning signs were there that our Offense was starting to miss the short passes from the slot. Its my belief that Sean Lewis had a TON to do with the 5 yard slot read plays that we could count on to get 5 yards at will to keep drives going. We just haven't seen much of it since ED's junior year(Sean Lewis last). Its my belief that Sean had ED looking at the D Alignment and making the SLOT the first read...regardless of which play was called. ED and Erv could always be on the same page because The D alignment dictated which way Erv was going to break his route to... We have lost that completely since Lewis's departure and i have been hoping Dino would have looked back on those seasons to figure out why we are so stagnant on O. There is simply no question our O has looked different the last few years without Lewis calling the O but supposedly the system is the same... I brought it up 2 years ago even in our 10 win season.. I brought it up last year as well... I have watched tape from last years games... its missing completely and for the love of God.. someone in the off season have Dino go back and take a look at what we used to run and why we were so much more efficient on O.. Its so obvious its criminal... Phillips was an above average college player.. but we have personnel on our team this year with as much talent... By the way.. this would also take pressure off our O line.. not to mention get Devito looking somewhere other than just the sideline... Frustration is at a near all time high with this obvious fix for me right now

They did put Taj in the slot. A little. I'm with you. I dont care where its from.

#4 seems fairly open, here. More of this, please.

 

[SuRaider307]

They did put Taj in the slot. A little. I'm with you. I dont care where its from.

Its not about putting Taj in the slot.. Its about the FOCUS of what the offense used to be as compared to what it is now.. I think ED's downfield accuracy issues and subpar O line talent level had Sean Lewis realizing that the best way to move the ball was short quick read plays that could utilize the hash and the middle as the D alignment dictated... this opened up other things in the passing game as the Strong safety would get caught keeping an eye on the hashes and it also kept LB's from just running downhill against running plays... Notice the OLB now just gets aggressive on the LOS and dives down catching our RB before he even hits the hole( and yes i am aware that the read option/QB run threat should also prevent this) .. so this missing piece is affecting both the Running and the passing efficiency of our O... Its friggan killing me because its so obvious. What i think Sean Lewis did was take Dinos O but Utilize/Teach Dungey to make the Slot as the primary(#1) read on 75% of the passing plays.. Once Sean left it slowly disappeared/wasnt being taught... NOW It seems to me that in Dino's standard offense, the #1 WR is the primary read and that is causing a ton of issues.. and has been for over 2 years now as our efficiency has gone down the toilet... Someone get a hold of Dino's ear to have him look at this in the offseason please...

 

[AngryOtto]

I'm seeing lots of people saying that the lack of training time, COVID opt outs, or other factors are the reason that our offense was so embarassingly pop-warner-esque today.

I'm not sure I buy this argument. First of all because all teams are dealing with many of the same issues yet manage to put out a representative performance. Frankly, it looked a whole lot like i remember it last year. Last year, I remember a whole lot of games where our defense carried the water for long stretches only to fall apart after trying to single handedly keep us in games while the offense does absolutely nothing. Our offense is unbelievably predictable, not even a bit creative. We don't use tight ends at all. We dont stretch the field at all beyond the occasional chuck downfield 3 yards out of bounds. Way too many of our pass plays are at or behind the LOS. Is Tommy incapable of throwing the ball downfield beyond the aforementioned throws OOB?

We got a new OC and for what? This? It's like they come to SU and its back to the same 5 stupid plays we always run.

I don't know what the answer is but, based on last season and the start of this one, it's seeming more and more to me that Eric Dungey was the main reason we got to 10 wins and that his success was despite the system and not because of it.

I was thinking the same thing. I’m not sure why we got a new oc if we are going to continue to run the same plays.
here is a novel concept. Try a pass play inside the 10 prior to third down.

 

[gmoney44]

I wonder if the level of preparation had something to do with that?

Every team is had approximately the same amount of time to prepare. We chose to miss a bunch of practices and we look like it.

 

[longislandcuse]

I’m not sure what you can call that will work. Where are the strengths on the offensive side of the ball? I don’t see any playmakers that you can count on. DeVito is inconsistent at best. No backs and the receivers aren’t close to being ACC level. The Oline is still a joke. I’m not sure who could cone up with a game plan with this talent.

If we aren’t going to recruit at a mid-tier ACC level, then we have to solely bring in dual threat QBs.

Have to include the added dimension of QB runs into the offense to open things up.

We have a below average OL, below average RBs and below average WRs... with a pocket passer.

That’s not a recipe for success when Clemson is elite, Louisville and Pitt are steadily building top 25 caliber programs and FSU is bad but still has 4/5 star talent. That’s 4 losses out the gate.

 

[Orangeman]

QB vision, both pre & post snap, would seem to be the big issue in my view

even when given time, our passing plays have just one chance to work

 

[rocklloyd]

It's year 5. The "we will be humming by week 3" lines are getting tired. Scheme and play call to your personnel.

“Biggest improvement is from week 1 to week 2”

Or my personal favorite:
“Somewhere between week 4 and week 6, everything will click”

 

[tipphill]

Of course you can judge. But nothing about our prep was normal, losing 2 RBs and having no guards isn't normal. There's a new OC, they tend to take longer than DCs to get up and running. And not having Chris Bleich hurts and the corrupt NC2A can abcdef right off for that crime.

biggest problem i saw was a total lack of talent (with some exceptions) on the offensive side of the ball. particularly the ol. i am not sold on how great devito is. he may be good given the right circumstances. were the te used at all for catching the ball?

 

[tipphill]

They did put Taj in the slot. A little. I'm with you. I dont care where its from.

#4 seems fairly open, here. More of this, please.
View attachment 187824

it shows me that devito is running INTO trouble. he may have the mechanics but may not have instinct.

 

[Chip]

I don’t think any year is a throwaway, not when games are played on tv and we have committed recruits to stay the course.

In a year where there are less teams to watch on TV, this is an opportunity for Syracuse to show it is a decent program.

We aren’t playing for National Championships - that part is throwaway - so winning games only helps the program build.

Throwaway probably wasn't the best choice of words. But I just don't think there's a ton of value add to getting frustrated this season. There are so many reasons why it's unique, that my expectations are about as low as they've ever been.

I do hope we use it to help build something more special for next year. No one uses a year of eligibility, although I'm sure this is the last time we'll see someone like Cisco.

You couldn't pick a worse scenario to break in two new coordinators, although one really impressed me yesterday. Defense probably just needed someone to breath life into them, and he certainly did. Wish the O could help them out a bit more.

 

[hoopsupstate]

This is a very unsophisticated offense. It looks like the QB tells the receivers to “get open” and I’ll try to find you. No swing passes to the backs and the tight ends are totally ignored. Our tight ends may be the best talent on the offense and they aren’t used. Very disappointing seeing the offense play. Since Dungey, the offense has got steadily worse. Johnson is rarely heard from anymore. He was a major weapon two years ago and now you wonder if he’s even on the team.

 

[FloridaFan]

This is a very unsophisticated offense. It looks like the QB tells the receivers to “get open” and I’ll try to find you. No swing passes to the backs and the tight ends are totally ignored. Our tight ends may be the best talent on the offense and they aren’t used. Very disappointing seeing the offense play. Since Dungey, the offense has got steadily worse. Johnson is rarely heard from anymore. He was a major weapon two years ago and now you wonder if he’s even on the team.

Taj has to get his twenty targets from somewhere

 

[TheHaze315]

Tommy limits his ability every snap. he refuses to look to his left or the middle of the field. Rex only got a handful of snaps and twice he found Queeley wide open outside the numbers on the left, how many times did Tommy have that? we won’t know because he doesn’t even look. if Taj isn’t open on the right side, 1 of 4 things is going to happen. 1. Tommy is gonna try to force it to Taj. 2. Tommy is going to throw the ball away. 3. Tommy is going to run out of bounds. 4. Tommy is going to get sacked. that sums up our passing attack. now, the ground game is even more simple than that. we lack creativity in every facet of the word. we have one play that involves running a RS FR running back who weighs 170 pounds down the middle, behind our presumed biggest weakness on the entire roster, our offensive line. the offense is stale and if there’s no adjustments this will stay the same. just like it did last year. i held my breath for adjustments and better play calling last season, not doing it again this year.

 

[CuseOnly]

We might and ive missed it, but do we ever pull linemen like that? A very common nfl call but it seems everything we do is just trying to run straight forward. Ironically enough, we also had seasons where we ran tons of WR sweeps directly East/West.

We don't run off tackle, why would you pull linemen when you don't run off tackle?

 

[CuseOnly]

Every team is had approximately the same amount of time to prepare. We chose to miss a bunch of practices and we look like it.

North Carolina missed 4 practices form their shutdown, we only missed 2.

So that blows up your theory.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I think Dino is a better overall HC than Clawson, but our O is taking longer than Clawson took to change Wake's O. Both HCs took over similar situations. Yet Wake's O goes way faster than anything we have dreamed of. It took Clawson till year 4 for the Wake O to take off. We are in year 5 and we are still waiting for the O we were promised. If the O is still dragging along after next year, does he think about switching systems? After 6 seasons how can you justify keeping the current system if it clearly is not working?

 

[kcsu]

Tommy limits his ability every snap. he refuses to look to his left or the middle of the field. Rex only got a handful of snaps and twice he found Queeley wide open outside the numbers on the left, how many times did Tommy have that? we won’t know because he doesn’t even look. if Taj isn’t open on the right side, 1 of 4 things is going to happen. 1. Tommy is gonna try to force it to Taj. 2. Tommy is going to throw the ball away. 3. Tommy is going to run out of bounds. 4. Tommy is going to get sacked. that sums up our passing attack. now, the ground game is even more simple than that. we lack creativity in every facet of the word. we have one play that involves running a RS FR running back who weighs 170 pounds down the middle, behind our presumed biggest weakness on the entire roster, our offensive line. the offense is stale and if there’s no adjustments this will stay the same. just like it did last year. i held my breath for adjustments and better play calling last season, not doing it again this year.

He has Tunnel vision. He might be gun shy after last year. Whatever the reason it is what it is. One thought is through play calling forcing him to throw middle routes.

 

[TheCusian]

So it’s fine that other teams are ready for the first game of the season but SU is not?

UNC didn’t look ready for 3Q. They looked more talented.

 

[TheCusian]

I think Dino is a better overall HC than Clawson, but our O is taking longer than Clawson took to change Wake's O. Both HCs took over similar situations. Yet Wake's O goes way faster than anything we have dreamed of. It took Clawson till year 4 for the Wake O to take off. We are in year 5 and we are still waiting for the O we were promised. If the O is still dragging along after next year, does he think about switching systems? After 6 seasons how can you justify keeping the current system if it clearly is not working?

Clawson didn’t run that O previously. He jacked it from us, lol

 

[CA Monk]

We know all this stuff.
Don't the coaches understand all this actionable analysis?

 

[ORRange]

Wow. Tons of excuses in this thread. Orange is the new 2 yards and a cloud of dust. I guess its against the rules to pass the ball on 1st down , especially in the red zone. Maybe Dino has never heard of play action.. See thats a good excuse.

 

[orangeinohio]

UNC didn’t look ready for 3Q. They looked more talented.

so the reason why they won is because they're more talented?

 

[BEAR'S DAD]

Gilbert as a new OC hire is like marriage to a 1st cousin...
Honestly, what has Sherrod Johnson ever done to even be in a position to drop an easy td pass?

Release over the shoulder passes that a WR has to track are NOT that easy regardless of how open you are especially in the end zone. There is a difference vs. your hook, curls, comebacks,etc ALL HAVE DIFFERENT CATCHING TECHNIQUES.

As far as Coach Babers hiring Gilbert as the OC. He made the right choice. In coaching you want to go to war with your own guns. Which is why Coach Babers doesn't have a play book, because he got betrayed by a former staffer. You have no idea how many schools try to pierce the Orange Veil via other coaches to get a hand on Coach Babers offense so they make sure he doesn't beat him. Coaches talk and EVERY coach in the ACC FEARS COACH BABERS FOOTBALL IQ and pray that he never gets a couple of top 25 recruiting classes because COACH BABERS WILL DOMINATE & I know what the HELL I'm talking about because I know the bag guys who "suggest" certain players to to certain schools. In fact, (for example) I was speaking to a UT alumnus who IS influencing Tennessee's 2021 class (currently ranked number #6 Nationally) and he joked that Coach Babers is with the wrong Orange Team and asked me what I thought it would cost to get Coach Babers to "The Rocky Top." He's an Investment Banker and Syracuse will not win that bidding war if one was started (trust me) I told him to ask me once Bear graduates.

...And the ONLY reason Sharod didn't see the field is because he was too outspoken (for some coaches to deal with), but you have to understand that he came from (Miami's Booker T Washington) & as a player came out of high school with a higher Football IQ (than a few coaches); you can make the wrong comments about adjustments and piss off "the man with the whistle."...so he learned to play the game and humble himself and shut the "" up so he could see the field.

Like I said...South Florida Kids who have been coached by NFL players most of their life have to learn to shut the "" up when they get to college and just do "whatever" the coach says even if the College coach misses the adjustments. THAT'S THE REAL DEAL!!!!

Bear was fortunate because I told him to NEVER say squat back to your coaches because COLLEGE COACHES WILL NOT let you see the field just to prove a point. Think about this - since Bear was in first grade he NEVER had a coach who didn't play in the NFL since little league through High School. Off the top of my head I've already counted just over 50+ ex NFL players who coached on Bear's teams in my son's lifetime. That's why it is embarrassing for a player from South Florida to NOT see the field by his second year in college to his former coaches and the player himself. So believe me Sharrod's NOT playing early was NOT a talent issue or learning the playbook issue. Hell - he already played against the best of the best his whole life and shined ALL THE TIME.

Anywhoo...That's the Real Deal...but the team as a whole will be fine.

GO ORANGE!

 

[BEAR'S DAD]

In defense of Gilbert, I think he's going to be a good recruiter. I'm also not sure what you do offensively with an OL that can't even slow down the penetration through the middle.

we will be fine...

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Release over the shoulder passes that a WR has to track are NOT that easy regardless of how open you are especially in the end zone. There is a difference vs. your hook, curls, comebacks,etc ALL HAVE DIFFERENT CATCHING TECHNIQUES.

As far as Coach Babers hiring Gilbert as the OC. He made the right choice. In coaching you want to go to war with your own guns. Which is why Coach Babers doesn't have a play book, because he got betrayed by a former staffer. You have no idea how many schools try to pierce the Orange Veil via other coaches to get a hand on Coach Babers offense so they make sure he doesn't beat him. Coaches talk and EVERY coach in the ACC FEARS COACH BABERS FOOTBALL IQ and pray that he never gets a couple of top 25 recruiting classes because COACH BABERS WILL DOMINATE & I know what the HELL I'm talking about because I know the bag guys who "suggest" certain players to to certain schools. In fact, (for example) I was speaking to a UT alumnus who IS influencing Tennessee's 2021 class (currently ranked number #6 Nationally) and he joked that Coach Babers is with the wrong Orange Team and asked me what I thought it would cost to get Coach Babers to "The Rocky Top." He's an Investment Banker and Syracuse will not win that bidding war if one was started (trust me) I told him to ask me once Bear graduates.

...And the ONLY reason Sharod didn't see the field is because he was too outspoken (for some coaches to deal with), but you have to understand that he came from (Miami's Booker T Washington) & as a player came out of high school with a higher Football IQ (than a few coaches); you can make the wrong comments about adjustments and piss off "the man with the whistle."...so he learned to play the game and humble himself and shut the "" up so he could see the field.

Like I said...South Florida Kids who have been coached by NFL players most of their life have to learn to shut the "" up when they get to college and just do "whatever" the coach says even if the College coach misses the adjustments. THAT'S THE REAL DEAL!!!!

Bear was fortunate because I told him to NEVER say squat back to your coaches because COLLEGE COACHES WILL NOT let you see the field just to prove a point. Think about this - since Bear was in first grade he NEVER had a coach who didn't play in the NFL since little league through High School. Off the top of my head I've already counted just over 50+ ex NFL players who coached on Bear's teams in my son's lifetime. That's why it is embarrassing for a player from South Florida to NOT see the field by his second year in college to his former coaches and the player himself. So believe me Sharrod's NOT playing early was NOT a talent issue or learning the playbook issue. Hell - he already played against the best of the best his whole life and shined ALL THE TIME.

Anywhoo...That's the Real Deal...but the team as a whole will be fine.

GO ORANGE!

I agree that wasn't an easy catch and certainly wasn't a "drop" as some here have suggested. On top of the difficult angle the ball had some zip on it too. Just a tad of loft and I think we score there. Yes I think Sharrod could have caught the ball, but should have is not the case.