Paul Pasqualoni expected to return for a 49th season in football with new job at Florida

[Eric15]

If the roles where reversed and P inherited what Mac did, do you think the SU program rises up in the mid 80’s and starts it’s run of good football? I am thankful for P and everything he did while at SU but he clearly benefited from the program Mac built. P’s two best season where the first two after taking over Mac’s loaded roster. Also I will never understand how we didn’t have better seasons during the McNabb years when we were loaded with NFL talent in a watered down Big East. So many What loses that derailed seasons every year.

These are all fair thoughts. The answer is: I don't know how they would have fared if the roles were reversed. I'm just looking at their overall record and body of work and who they beat, and I think Coach P is ahead (by a slight margin). And Coach P was intimately involved with that rebuild as Mac's top assistant/recruiter -- he didn't just walk into the situation from another school.

One argument in favor of P is that he generally had to deal with more difficult schedules than Mac. In 1988 for example we didn't play a single team that finished that season with a winning record until WVU at the end of the year.

 

[MSOrange]

It wouldn't be a syracusefan.com football offseason without a good ol Coach P debate. We're just a little behind schedule due to the virus discussions.

 

[elimunelson]

These are all fair thoughts. The answer is: I don't know how they would have fared if the roles were reversed. I'm just looking at their overall record and body of work and who they beat, and I think Coach P is ahead (by a slight margin). And Coach P was intimately involved with that rebuild as Mac's top assistant/recruiter -- he didn't just walk into the situation from another school.

One argument in favor of P is that he generally had to deal with more difficult schedules than Mac. In 1988 for example we didn't play a single team that finished that season with a winning record until WVU at the end of the year.

you can also argue the OOC schedules at the end of the 90s was a gauntlet that no mere mortal would subject themselves to again. Tennessee, Michigan, Auburn, BYU, ND. Syracuse football was the Umass basketball of the 90s.."anyplace, anytime, anywhere"

 

[Cusefan78]

I'm trying to illustrate that Shafer had recruited guys in that Dino team. i'm a huge Dino guy and he coached them up. Dino doesn't win 10 games without Dungey that year, who was brought in by Scott. That should be commended but Dino unlocked the ultimate potential in Dungey that year.

Paul inherited a loaded Syracuse era from Mac and made the putt for the first 3 years with aplomb. I won't hold it against him. He also reloaded with the McNabb era and built that into a 2x BCS team. That should be commended for having never happened in modern times at Syracuse.

I just think we tend to lionize Mac b/c he left at the perfectly right time for legacy building. If Paul had taken the Penn State job in March of 1999 we would probably have built a statue already.

I didn’t know he was up for that job. Was he offered?

 

[JeffCuse]

It wouldn't be a syracusefan.com football offseason without a good ol Coach P debate. We're just a little behind schedule due to the virus discussions.

I'm staying out of it. It's well known that I consider him a good, B/B+ coach that had a number of very good years but also some years where he underachieved with some A+ level talent. The game also seemed to pass him by at the end. It was time to move on, just not to move onto Howdy Doody as coach.

I guess am not staying out of it.

 

[Stern]

I'm staying out of it. It's well known that I consider him a good, B/B+ coach that had a number of very good years but also some years where he underachieved with some A+ level talent. The game also seemed to pass him by at the end. It was time to move on, just not to move onto Howdy Doody as coach.

I guess am not staying out of it.

Your points are spot on...

1) He was able to recruit A/A+ talent so he gets credit for that

2) He underachieved with the A/A+ talent so that is a knock against him

3) His early success was mainly just riding the success of Coach Mac, which he gets credit for not screwing that up. (lots of coaches would have screwed that up)

4) By the end of his time at Syracuse the college game had passed him by and he was running an outdated offensive system that couldn't compete on a national level and he showed no intention of changing the system. He gets knocked for that and that is a fair knock against him.

5) He is the coach who was at the helm when SU football began its downward trend. And once that trend starts it is very difficult to turn it around. 4 and 6 win seasons in a bad conference and losing to the likes of Temple and Rutgers (who at that time were god awful is inexcusable.) Factor in you have 2 conference cupcakes in that era (Temple/Rutgers and then add in your Rhode Island/Buffalo type game...you have 3 gimmie wins each year, to end the year with 4 or 6 wins is inexcusable with that talent he had.) Coach P wasn't proactive in any way to make the necessary changes to fix things and he wasn't even showing signs of making any changes period to fix the issues. This is the biggest knock against him and the one that can't be overlooked and no excuse can be given for. There is no way to spin this one and its a huge knock against him and his time at Syracuse.

ALL OF THE THINGS I LISTED ABOVE CAN BE TRUE AT THE SAME TIME!! It's not an either/or situation.
In my eyes there are many positives to what he did here and just as many negatives. The negatives in my opinion were far bigger of a scale than the positives though.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Coach P had a hand in killing UConn’s football program.

Mike dropped.

 

[JeffCuse]

Coach P had a hand in killing UConn’s football program.

Mike dropped.

Ours too.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Ours too.

Nope.

 

[JeffCuse]

Nope.

Well. It was bludgeoned into a coma. We've woken up but are having trouble getting our motor functions back

 

[HOFCeluck]

Well. It was bludgeoned into a coma. We've woken up but are having trouble getting our motor functions back

That's not unreasonable. We have had a prolonged recovery and we may never get back to who we were, but we aren't dead. Uconn though..they dead.

 

[KaiserUEO]

incredulous.

this is a board that routinely thinks we have 3 1st round draft picks with the entire Sr class being drafted by day 3, but when it comes to basically the most successful coach in the last 50 years at Syracuse, who has BEEN GONE for 15 years or so, who meets the CF HOF criteria and is universally known to be an all around good guy...when we mention him with fondness, the idiots come out to throw dirt on him.

i question why many are even here.

 

[gmoney44]

incredulous.

this is a board that routinely thinks we have 3 1st round draft picks with the entire Sr class being drafted by day 3, but when it comes to basically the most successful coach in the last 50 years at Syracuse, who has BEEN GONE for 15 years or so, who meets the CF HOF criteria and is universally known to be an all around good guy...when we mention him with fondness, the idiots come out to throw dirt on him.

i question why many are even here.

Give it a break. No one thinks that BS you said about our players getting drafted. Also I think discussing the good, bad and ugly of a coaching tenure is exactly what should be discussed on a fan forum.

 

[JeffCuse]

incredulous.

this is a board that routinely thinks we have 3 1st round draft picks with the entire Sr class being drafted by day 3, but when it comes to basically the most successful coach in the last 50 years at Syracuse, who has BEEN GONE for 15 years or so, who meets the CF HOF criteria and is universally known to be an all around good guy...when we mention him with fondness, the idiots come out to throw dirt on him.

i question why many are even here.

Not throwing dirt. I said he was a very good coach. I just hate revisionist history.

The line about killing the program was tongue in cheek. I do think the failure to make a change earlier hurt the program, but was recoverable - clearly who they replaced him WITH was a much bigger problem.

FWIW he has not yet met the college HOF criteria. Coaches must be retired. This whole thread was spurred by the fact he is not.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Not throwing dirt. I said he was a very good coach. I just hate revisionist history.

The line about killing the program was tongue in cheek. I do think the failure to make a change earlier hurt the program, but was recoverable - clearly who they replaced him WITH was a much bigger problem.

FWIW he has not yet met the college HOF criteria. Coaches must be retired. This whole thread was spurred by the fact he is not.

yes, the fact that he took another job pushes him back a year.

and to the other guy, join some game or draft threads...

 

[Vshukla]

We can debate Coach P’s legacy until the end of time. My opinion is that the guy was a very good coach who was part of SU for a long time. I feel he deserved a better end and would love to see him recognized for his contributions. I don’t know if he is open to it, but when he is ready he should be warmly welcomed home by Orange Nation.

 

[OrangeDW]

Not throwing dirt. I said he was a very good coach. I just hate revisionist history.

The line about killing the program was tongue in cheek. I do think the failure to make a change earlier hurt the program, but was recoverable - clearly who they replaced him WITH was a much bigger problem.

FWIW he has not yet met the college HOF criteria. Coaches must be retired. This whole thread was spurred by the fact he is not.

Program clearly got stale in the early 00s. Some have pointed out the lack of financial investment into the program was a huge factor.

Football wise - holy cow, was the QB position botched after McNabb. From a recruiting perspective we didn’t get it done, but even the management of who we did have was very shaky. The rigid “rotation” of Nunes/Williams was a bad idea. And going with Joe Fields was also a bad idea.

 

[JeffCuse]

Program clearly got stale in the early 00s. Some have pointed out the lack of financial investment into the program was a huge factor.

Football wise - holy cow, was the QB position botched after McNabb. From a recruiting perspective we didn’t get it done, but even the management of who we did have was very shaky. The rigid “rotation” of Nunes/Williams was a bad idea. And going with Joe Fields was also a bad idea.

I always felt that if RJ Anderson was the guy as a Freshman and it never waivered he would have been a very very good QB when all was said and done.

 

[OrangeDW]

I always felt that if RJ Anderson was the guy as a Freshman and it never waivered he would have been a very very good QB when all was said and done.

Hmm...I’m not sure on that, but he was pretty good as a senior. And he did what the team needed in 2001 - don’t turn the ball over, pick up some yards on the ground, and hit the occasional deep ball.

We probably should’ve went to him sooner in 2000. Nunes was just too erratic with the turnovers, and with that defense and running game we might’ve been better off with RJ. And RJ did really come through in that WVU game which I think was his first start.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Hmm...I’m not sure on that, but he was pretty good as a senior. And he did what the team needed in 2001 - don’t turn the ball over, pick up some yards on the ground, and hit the occasional deep ball.

We probably should’ve went to him sooner in 2000. Nunes was just too erratic with the turnovers, and with that defense and running game we might’ve been better off with RJ. And RJ did really come through in that WVU game which I think was his first start.

"Robin, moved the ball well for us tonight."

 

[orange79]

"Robin, moved the ball well for us tonight."

Beat me to it.

 

[GoSU96]

Your points are spot on...

1) He was able to recruit A/A+ talent so he gets credit for that

2) He underachieved with the A/A+ talent so that is a knock against him

3) His early success was mainly just riding the success of Coach Mac, which he gets credit for not screwing that up. (lots of coaches would have screwed that up)

4) By the end of his time at Syracuse the college game had passed him by and he was running an outdated offensive system that couldn't compete on a national level and he showed no intention of changing the system. He gets knocked for that and that is a fair knock against him.

5) He is the coach who was at the helm when SU football began its downward trend. And once that trend starts it is very difficult to turn it around. 4 and 6 win seasons in a bad conference and losing to the likes of Temple and Rutgers (who at that time were god awful is inexcusable.) Factor in you have 2 conference cupcakes in that era (Temple/Rutgers and then add in your Rhode Island/Buffalo type game...you have 3 gimmie wins each year, to end the year with 4 or 6 wins is inexcusable with that talent he had.) Coach P wasn't proactive in any way to make the necessary changes to fix things and he wasn't even showing signs of making any changes period to fix the issues. This is the biggest knock against him and the one that can't be overlooked and no excuse can be given for. There is no way to spin this one and its a huge knock against him and his time at Syracuse.

ALL OF THE THINGS I LISTED ABOVE CAN BE TRUE AT THE SAME TIME!! It's not an either/or situation.
In my eyes there are many positives to what he did here and just as many negatives. The negatives in my opinion were far bigger of a scale than the positives though.

Mac from his hire through 1986 was 30-36-1 in six seasons

Best season was 7-5

For the '87 season Pasqualoni was added to the staff and DeLeone was made OC.

From that point until 2004, SU went 143-69-4 with one losing season vs five double digit and three nine win seasons (8 out of 19 seasons that he worked here). I guess it's just a coincidence considering how the negatives were far bigger than the positives.

In the 15 years since he was dismissed the program has gone 72-111, with two 10 loss and two 9 loss seasons. His worst season was 4-8, the programs average in the 15 years since, 4.8-7.4. In the last 15 years only four seasons have been the better than Pasqualoni's last two 6-6 seasons.

Might it have been time to move on, maybe, but the administration had the responsibility if they were going to make a change not to be irresponsible and do it without a plan and targets that they were confident were going to be better because based on his record there was a very short list of who would have been a better replacement. And Greg Robinson was never part of that list.

 

[CuyahogaCuse]

And going with Joe Fields was also a bad idea.

I still have nightmares about that Purdue train whistle.

Which reminds me ... that is a wrong that must be righted. Glad the Boilermakers are on the future schedules. We owe them.

 

[JeffCuse]

In the 15 years since he was dismissed the program has gone 72-111, with two 10 loss and two 9 loss seasons. His worst season was 4-8, the programs average in the 15 years since, 4.8-7.4. In the last 15 years only four seasons have been the better than Pasqualoni's last two 6-6 seasons.

Might it have been time to move on, maybe, but the administration had the responsibility if they were going to make a change not to be irresponsible and do it without a plan and targets that they were confident were going to be better because based on his record there was a very short list of who would have been a better replacement. And Greg Robinson was never part of that list.

If I had a time machine post Gerg, I would have gone back and unhired him. Possibly even unfired P. But the fact is, at the time, it was time for P to go.

Over the course of his first 8 seasons, P lost 5 games in a season exactly zero times.
Over the course of his final 6, he lost 5 games 5 times.

He was 10-20 in his last 3 seasons combined (he has an 0-6 season in there as per the NCAA).

He was on a clear and marked decline.

Fact is, we can all agree the biggest mistake was hiring Gerg. Take away Gerg's tenure and the post P coaches have gone 62-74. Ugly. But statistically better (barely) than P's 16-20 last 3 seasons (if we dont consider the NCAA ruling in the equation), and that factors in the move to a better conference in the ACC. Gerg was the disaster, and the outlier, here.

Give P a mural. Raise a banner. I will tip my cap to him for his service. I just want to be balanced in how we remember him, and not rewrite history.

 

[KaiserUEO]

If I had a time machine post Gerg, I would have gone back and unhired him. Possibly even unfired P. But the fact is, at the time, it was time for P to go.

Over the course of his first 8 seasons, P lost 5 games in a season exactly zero times.
Over the course of his final 6, he lost 5 games 5 times.

He was 10-20 in his last 3 seasons combined (he has an 0-6 season in there as per the NCAA).

He was on a clear and marked decline.

Fact is, we can all agree the biggest mistake was hiring Gerg. Take away Gerg's tenure and the post P coaches have gone 62-74. Ugly. But statistically better (barely) than P's 16-20 last 3 seasons (if we dont consider the NCAA ruling in the equation), and that factors in the move to a better conference in the ACC. Gerg was the disaster, and the outlier, here.

Give P a mural. Raise a banner. I will tip my cap to him for his service. I just want to be balanced in how we remember him, and not rewrite history.

You can’t rewrite WINNING the Big East and getting fired after your bowl game.

ped st treats paterno a gazillion times better than Cuse fans treat P.

ridiculous