Pete Thamel

[pearl31]

Westry was not gonna be an option this year. The staff knew that early on.

I don't think they did late summer/early fall - they probably had questions about just how good he could be right away but I think they expected him to be a significant contributor

 

[Scooch]

I don't think they did late summer/early fall - they probably had questions about just how good he could be right away but I think they expected him to be a significant contributor

They did not. Supposedly by late summer they knew he was a total wild card. He was not someone they counted on for anything. Supposedly.

 

[pearl31]

This season is an abomination, regardless of injuries, player underperformances, etc. The defense is unfathomably bad. The offense is uninspired and simplistic. The substitution patterns make no sense. It's a collective coaching failure.

AND

It is not the squad Red thought he had going into the season.

 

[Red2003]

If you’re right, how do you replace him? You think you’ll get better from the portal when there are other major spots to fill. If we lose JJ and Freeman you can forget about next year. You’re looking at 6-7 needs from the portal. Where do you think the money is coming from?

You say that as if those 2 are going to be free if they stay. And I didn’t say freeman.

JJ is too inconsistent. He’s also injury prone, does not shoot the 3 well and does not defend. 71.4% free throw shooter. I’ll take my chances with new guards for the same money JJ costs.

 

[hoopsupstate]

You say that as if those 2 are going to be free if they stay. And I didn’t say freeman.

JJ is too inconsistent. He’s also injury prone, does not shoot the 3 well and does not defend. 71.4% free throw shooter. I’ll take my chances with new guards for the same money JJ costs.

JJ is relatively cheap at $300,000 for someone averaging 18 points a game in the ACC. To get someone better it will cost more than double. LaFew will confess to that and he’s half the player JJ is.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Our back court is probably the worst we’ve had in our schools history. Defensively for sure its easy to see but IQ and shot selection, turnovers, running the offense it’s all terrible too. ...

Autry has no idea how to coach or develop them because he never had to. He just expects them to play with the same toughness and the same talent level as the guards we’ve had roll through the program the last 30 years.

We’ve always just had long athletic guards that figured it out and now we have the opposite.

You're right, but to an extent their shot selection and IQ running the offense or just defending the high pick & roll, is honestly a reflection of the coaching.

 

[IthacaMatt]

They did not. Supposedly by late summer they knew he was a total wild card. He was not someone they counted on for anything. Supposedly.

I don't buy that at all, sorry Scooch. Why bring him back for a 2nd year on scholarship if you KNOW pre-season that he's not going to be able to play again, for a second year in a row? Makes no sense.

 

[longtimefan]

What if we let JB go and hired Nate Oats when we had the chance?

He would have been in the SEC, just not as soon. $6M is hard to resist.

 

[PoppyHart]

I think the bottom line is that we're always likely to underperform with Red vis-a-vis the team's talent level.

With elite ACC talent, I see Red peaking at top 3rd of conference
With above average ACC talent, it's bubble territory (SU 25-26)
With average ACC talent, we finish bottom 3rd (SU 24-25)
With minimal ACC talent, it's 2025 Miami bad

 

[Red2003]

JJ is relatively cheap at $300,000 for someone averaging 18 points a game in the ACC. To get someone better it will cost more than double. LaFew will confess to that and he’s half the player JJ is.

I’m doubling down. I don’t care about points on that volume of shooting and minutes. Points are not our problem. We are giving up literally hundred point games.

Here’s something that doesn’t show up on your stat line too. On the road in Blacksburg of all places a bail out foul on a 3 in a tight game and he misses all 3!

Do you know what kind of momentum that gives to the other team? What kind of message does that send to your own teammates and the young guys on the team.

Then you have Bell the only player on the team that should be taking 3’s passing up shots to Carlos and others?

These guys have a hundred starts in the ACC. That’s not veteran play or leadership. It’s a systemic problem that needs to be nipped.

We can’t nip Autry it seems and Carmelo won’t answer my calls . We can rebuild the entire roster though. And why wouldn’t we with the worse season we’ve had in decades.

 

[baggerbob]

I’m doubling down. I don’t care about points on that volume of shooting and minutes. Points are not our problem. We are giving up literally hundred point games.

Here’s something that doesn’t show up on your stat line too. On the road in Blacksburg of all places a bail out foul on a 3 in a tight game and he misses all 3!

Do you know what kind of momentum that gives to the other team? What kind of message does that send to your own teammates and the young guys on the team.

Then you have Bell the only player on the team that should be taking 3’s passing up shots to Carlos and others?

These guys have a hundred starts in the ACC. That’s not veteran play or leadership. It’s a systemic problem that needs to be nipped.

We can’t nip Autry it seems and Carmelo won’t answer my calls . We can rebuild the entire roster though. And why wouldn’t we with the worse season we’ve had in decades.

When your star misses 3 freethrows up 77-76
near the end of the game, it definitely hurts momentum.

 

[hoopsupstate]

When your star misses 3 freethrows up 77-76
near the end of the game, it definitely hurts momentum.

When you lead a game you must make free throws to maintain the lead. Those three misses not only did not extend the lead, it also kills momentum and confidence.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I’m doubling down. I don’t care about points on that volume of shooting and minutes. Points are not our problem. We are giving up literally hundred point games.

Here’s something that doesn’t show up on your stat line too. On the road in Blacksburg of all places a bail out foul on a 3 in a tight game and he misses all 3!

Do you know what kind of momentum that gives to the other team? What kind of message does that send to your own teammates and the young guys on the team.

Then you have Bell the only player on the team that should be taking 3’s passing up shots to Carlos and others?

These guys have a hundred starts in the ACC. That’s not veteran play or leadership. It’s a systemic problem that needs to be nipped.

We can’t nip Autry it seems and Carmelo won’t answer my calls . We can rebuild the entire roster though. And why wouldn’t we with the worse season we’ve had in decades.

I think he got 1 of the 3 foul shots, but yes, you are spot on. He's not somebody to spend much money on, and he needs to play a less important role if he's back.

Same with Chris Bell; if you're back, you play just like you are right now, situational 3 point shooting off the bench. I don't see out-bidding anyone to keep him.

 

[Scooch]

I don't buy that at all, sorry Scooch. Why bring him back for a 2nd year on scholarship if you KNOW pre-season that he's not going to be able to play again, for a second year in a row? Makes no sense.

This digression about Westry came up because someone suggested that he was a player that Autry planned the team around but wasn’t able to play.

From what was said by folks that’s not the case. Autry never planned to have Westry be an important cog in the team.

Injuries will be one of the excuses that are made for Red, and will be one of the rationales for bringing him back. But Freeman’s really the only guy who was lost. Starling was out a few games, but that happens to every team. Westry was never intended to be a key piece. Anything he gave is this season was seen to be a bonus.

 

[IthacaMatt]

When your star misses 3 freethrows up 77-76
near the end of the game, it definitely hurts momentum.

I would say this about JJ: if he was the 3rd guard on a really good team, he would be an asset. He's not dependable from 3 and shouldn't be your team's volume shooter. He makes occasionally good defensive plays, but is mediocre at best on that side of the ball.

He has acceleration with the ball and can get to the rim. He is streaky from outside if he gets hot. He could be really effective in that role. But we're not a team that's likely to have 2 guards who are better than him, if he's back next year.

We have to have a top notch PG and a couple threats from 3, and then JJ can fit the rotation. He can't be so high usage. He's just not good enough to carry a team by himself, like he's been trying to do.

 

[IthacaMatt]

This digression about Westry came up because someone suggested that he was a player that Autry planned the team around but wasn’t able to play.

From what was said by folks that’s not the case. Autry never planned to have Westry be an important cog in the team.

Injuries will be one of the excuses that are made for Red, and will be one of the rationales for bringing him back. But Freeman’s really the only guy who was lost. Starling was out a few games, but that happens to every team. Westry was never intended to be a key piece. Anything he gave is this season was seen to be a bonus.

Why use up the scholarship for 2 years then if they didn't expect him to play?

 

[phil77]

I think he got 1 of the 3 foul shots, but yes, you are spot on. He's not somebody to spend much money on, and he needs to play a less important role if he's back.

Same with Chris Bell; if you're back, you play just like you are right now, situational 3 point shooting off the bench. I don't see out-bidding anyone to keep him.

I think you just need to move on. They are a part of the no defense culture problem. The team needs an entire new energy and a new vibe, cant have leftover senior leaders that contributed to the problems.

 

[Red2003]

I think he got 1 of the 3 foul shots, but yes, you are spot on. He's not somebody to spend much money on, and he needs to play a less important role if he's back.

Same with Chris Bell; if you're back, you play just like you are right now, situational 3 point shooting off the bench. I don't see out-bidding anyone to keep him.

He missed all 3. He was actually 1-5 then made his next 5.

I agree on the outbidding. Fran brown approach. You wanna test the waters ok We’ll make it easy and put your name in the portal and get someone else.

 

[Red2003]

I would say this about JJ: if he was the 3rd guard on a really good team, he would be an asset. He's not dependable from 3 and shouldn't be your team's volume shooter. He makes occasionally good defensive plays, but is mediocre at best on that side of the ball.

He has acceleration with the ball and can get to the rim. He is streaky from outside if he gets hot. He could be really effective in that role. But we're not a team that's likely to have 2 guards who are better than him, if he's back next year.

We have to have a top notch PG and a couple threats from 3, and then JJ can fit the rotation. He can't be so high usage. He's just not good enough to carry a team by himself, like he's been trying to do.

Well said. It’s hard because I like the guy and he’s local. We’ve also seen him take over games.

He is what we need exploiting matchups that can’t keep him out of the paint. Then when they shut down the paint we go to the 3. Problem is we don’t have the 3 point shooting now.

It’s a tough one. Gonna come down to what price he wants to stay.

 

[BomberOrange]

In defense of Red...he has had a higher amount of injuries and an early season schedule that didn't help.

That’s funny. Lemoyne, Youngstown St, and Colgate were definitely tough outs. Thanks to the amazing coaching and talent, we got through this trifecta.

 

[Scooch]

Why use up the scholarship for 2 years then if they didn't expect him to play?

Who was going to take it? It's not like we were fighting guys off in the portal last summer. We added three Colonial League guys after all.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Who was going to take it? It's not like we were fighting guys off in the portal last summer. We added three Colonial League guys after all.

Well, if he's getting paid anything at all to be here, then he shouldn't have been here a 2nd year if he wasn't going to play.

How many hundreds of posters have complained about our lack of NIL money?

Anything spent on Westry, if they didn't expect him to be a contributor in YEAR TWO is just burning money.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Well, if he's getting paid anything at all to be here, then he shouldn't have been here a 2nd year if he wasn't going to play.

How many hundreds of posters have complained about our lack of NIL money?

Anything spent on Westry, if they didn't expect him to be a contributor in YEAR TWO is just burning money.

I think he’s getting $150,000, so that should be coming off the books this year. Between him and Eddie that’s a cool $1 million.

 

[Scooch]

Well, if he's getting paid anything at all to be here, then he shouldn't have been here a 2nd year if he wasn't going to play.

How many hundreds of posters have complained about our lack of NIL money?

Anything spent on Westry, if they didn't expect him to be a contributor in YEAR TWO is just burning money.

My hunch is that when they made the commitment to him for this season (last Spring) they hoped he’d play. A few months later they knew that was a crapshoot.

Plus, I doubt he’s making much at all.

Of all the things I’ll criticize Red about — and it’s almost everything — Westry’s situation doesn’t make the list for me.

 

[IthacaMatt]

My hunch is that when they made the commitment to him for this season (last Spring) they hoped he’d play. A few months later they knew that was a crapshoot.

Plus, I doubt he’s making much at all.

Of all the things I’ll criticize Red about — and it’s almost everything — Westry’s situation doesn’t make the list for me.

Fair enough. Mostly, it's just bad luck.