Peyton's legacy
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KaiserUEO
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not much of a list...
Starr
Griese
Bradshaw
Staubach
Plunkett
Montana
Aikman **edited in, forgot about ole weak arm
Elway
Brady
Ben
Eli
6 (7 on the edit) Hall of Famers 3 Future ones...and the correct answer to your absurd, creating your own goalposts so you can kick one through question...plunkett.
and looking at that list, the only ones who id take over Eli...are staubach and elway.
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Cusefan0307
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I know you are a Giants fan and you hate Brady, but if you love Eli so much cause of his record over Tom you can't ignore the numbers like you said.
Peyton's had as many first round flameouts (9) as Brady has played in title games (9). Don't give me the Belichick BS. He didn't do crap in Cleveland.
Peyton isn't even the best of his generation, so he's not the best all time. Give me 1 QB to win a game in any building, in any climate you have to pick Tom. It's not close. Best winning percentage of all time. If the Patriots win this year, any debate starts with number 12 at the top.
Nobody wants Brady to be the best all time because we don't like our all-timers to be giant A-hole D-bags, but he is.
TheCusian
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What's absurd? If you're going to judge Peyton's legacy on a combination of reg season and post - then you do it for all QB's. Eli's been great in two super bowl runs and bad-average in the other years. Does that tarnish his legacy?
KaiserUEO
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dont know if you are referencing my original list or the statement you quoted, is sorta both...but anywho...i could care less whether me putting brady 3rd behind peyton drives you or others nuts...2nd? 3rd? 4th? 50th? no matter what...in that 1 magical game you speak off...im taking ELWAY.
and its not close.
KaiserUEO
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trying decide who is the worst regular season QB to have mulitple SuperBowl rings is most definetly...ABSURD.
nobody cares.
and the correct answer...is plunkett.
and its not close there, either...
Joe Flacco is the AFC Eli Manning. Eli doesn't make the playoffs enough to be in the discussion. Eli/Flacco are money in the playoffs but mediocre in the regular season.
The 2008 playoffs remain the SB the Giants gave away. They won in 2011 to balance it out but the Giants in 08 had an easy run if they didn't croke. #6 seed Eagles/ #4 seed Cardinals/ # 2 seed Steelers.
That 08 playoff had the most parity ever both 1 seeds lost to 6 seeds.
The 2008 playoffs remain the SB the Giants gave away. They won in 2011 to balance it out but the Giants in 08 had an easy run if they didn't croke. #6 seed Eagles/ #4 seed Cardinals/ # 2 seed Steelers.
That 08 playoff had the most parity ever both 1 seeds lost to 6 seeds.
TheCusian
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Truly? You care. You've been fighting for your boy for 7 posts now. Legacy questions are just that pointless and absurd - unless you have a horse in the race.
It's as absurd as questioning Peyton's legacy over his post season one and dones.
Eli's legacy is tarnished by the boatload of no-shows and interceptions in the regular season.
The better question would be who's career would you rather have Eli's or Peyton's?
Cusefan0307
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They Peyton Manning hype machine annoys me. His 5-11 record against his biggest rival speaks volumes. Elway may of been better than Brady, he was more athletic. I'm more speaking to the Manning part of the argument.
I would rather have Peyton's career over Eli. Eli has 2 rings but Peyton has 1 SB and is in the pantheon of all time greats. Eli will get into the HOF but Peyton has the records, ring, and legacy. Eli is money in the playoffs and ups his game while Peyton soils himself but give me Peyton's career over Eli's especially when Peyton has 1 ring.
Full_Rebar
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I'll take Montana. His teams might have been deep, but in the biggest game of the year he delivered the W. Maybe it's unfair, but I think most would say the Patriots teams were better than the Giants and both times they lost.
You want the glory, then you have to take the blame as well.
You want the glory, then you have to take the blame as well.
KaiserUEO
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Peytons career, its nice playing in a dome.
im confused on this. i put Peyton 2 all time...are you trying to knock down my pick of Elway, by saying im questioning peytons legacy??
or are you flustered because you realize that trying to say Eli is the worst regular season QB to win 2x+ is absurd...and not true even if anyone was asking??
somebody tell Aaron Rogers ive found the New York Bozo...
Crusty
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Post season play is over rated. Is Bradshaw great? He won 4 SB in 6 years?
Were these guys great?
Brad Johnson?
Doug Williams?
Jeff Hostetler?
Trent Dilfer?
Joe Namath?
Marino was as good as it gets and he never won. Football is a team sport.
Were these guys great?
Brad Johnson?
Doug Williams?
Jeff Hostetler?
Trent Dilfer?
Joe Namath?
Marino was as good as it gets and he never won. Football is a team sport.
TheCusian
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Read the whole thread; I've been consistent.
The OP was about Peyton's legacy being weighed down by flame outs in the playoffs.
I said that Eli's legacy is similarly tarnished by his regular season performances.
I don't feel like trying to compare a QB from the distant past to a guy who is playing 40 years later. Too many variables. I'll take your word on the golden oldies.
The OP was about Peyton's legacy being weighed down by flame outs in the playoffs.
I said that Eli's legacy is similarly tarnished by his regular season performances.
I don't feel like trying to compare a QB from the distant past to a guy who is playing 40 years later. Too many variables. I'll take your word on the golden oldies.
KaiserUEO
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thing is, i never tarnished peyton.
and Eli's career is still in its prime...sorta. been to the playoffs 5x. in 10 years as a starter thats 50% for you non math whizes. for comparison, brees has been 6x, ben 7x. if he doesnt go again, well that will be depressing...but i doubt it. and i suppose **then**, his playoff #s will be weak in the overall dept. but who knows, i think he will end up with another ring or 2 despite these 'regular season perfomances' that you think are not good. hes had 3 losing seasons...and 1 was the 1st year at 1-6. look, last year (2013) was bad, i get it...but this year was off the charts good and historically hes usually about 3,800 yds, 27 tds and about 16ints.
thats pretty damn good, not much tarnish there.
when Eli is done, he will be in the top 6 for TDs and yards & wins.
and likely int's, but who cares?
i purposely left unitas out of the conversation...my lord are you suggesting i leave Elway out too?? or are you talking about plunkett, who wouldve sucked in any generation...
TheCusian
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KaiserUEO said:
Well sure. I wanted to talk about Eli vs Peyton. It's a more interesting discussion.
For the record, he's had good regular seasons and poor regular seasons. He's been remarkable consistent at being inconsistent. This year is a perfect snapshot: record breaking end, woefully average to start - no playoffs.
And my point stands: his regular season performances have tarnished his legacy. That's a fact.
I was talking about Plunkett. Unitas is well before my time (not sure about you?) - and I'm old enough to have watched most of Elways professional career.
KaiserUEO
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i guess at the end of the day, im not concerned about his legacy.
just SuperBowl wins and making the Hall. the former is etched in stone and the latter is definetly forthcoming.
i get that he will never be in the conversation with his bro, elway, brady etc...and i really dont care that hes not either.
youre too harsh on his regular seasons, he throws a lot of 'punt-ints' and this year he had about 2 bad games.
as stated, never saw unitas. mid 70s + begins my viewing era, but i was too young to really judge staubach and bradshaw per sey, just saw the end of their careers.
TheCusian
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Fair enough.
I wonder if Peyton would give up his regular seasons for Eli's other ring?
1.) Elway had the best arm I've ever seen. In his heart, I don't think he believed he could beat a more talented team. Montana, Brady, Unitas and Staubach never believed they faced a more talented team. Each of those guys believed that if he was on the team, it was the more talented team and therefore entitled to win.
2.) Right now, you take Montana over Brady but the margin is close. The only thing separating them is postseason greatness. Joe Montana is responsible for "The Drive" and "The Catch." Name one legendary play by Tom Brady in the postseason ("the tuck rule")? All of Brady's game-winning drives in SBs were for FGs. Montana dealt in TDs. This ranking could change with a late, game winning TD in a few weeks.
3.) Marino had the best release I've ever seen and he has the best sob story about lack of supporting cast. That 14-2 team in 1984 was the best team he was ever on, and neither its running game nor defense was any good.
4.) Aikman is the flip side of the Marino coin. He was on such talented teams that we never got to see him single-handedly carry his team. Also, his defenses were so good that we didn't really see the shootouts or late-game rallies. If he had been in Miami, he would not have been as good as Marino but we would have gotten to appreciate him more.
5.) Wherever you put Favre on the list, you have to put Manning ahead of him. There are about a dozen reasons this is true.
6.) Wherever you put Bradshaw on the list, Roethlisberger has to be ahead of him.
7.) Eli could have won any title Bart Starr won. That team was loaded. Starr could not have won either of Eli's titles.
8.) Aaron Rodgers should probably appear on the list already. He was missing about one-third of his skill set yesterday, and he was still the best guy on either team. He's better than Favre. Deep down, you know it. I know it. Jerry Jones knows it.
9.) If we're getting into single super bowl winners, I demand Doug Williams be on the list. Only one QB in history -- and it sure wasn't Steve Young -- was able to succeed wearing Creamsincle orange (and you thought we have uni problems).
2.) Right now, you take Montana over Brady but the margin is close. The only thing separating them is postseason greatness. Joe Montana is responsible for "The Drive" and "The Catch." Name one legendary play by Tom Brady in the postseason ("the tuck rule")? All of Brady's game-winning drives in SBs were for FGs. Montana dealt in TDs. This ranking could change with a late, game winning TD in a few weeks.
3.) Marino had the best release I've ever seen and he has the best sob story about lack of supporting cast. That 14-2 team in 1984 was the best team he was ever on, and neither its running game nor defense was any good.
4.) Aikman is the flip side of the Marino coin. He was on such talented teams that we never got to see him single-handedly carry his team. Also, his defenses were so good that we didn't really see the shootouts or late-game rallies. If he had been in Miami, he would not have been as good as Marino but we would have gotten to appreciate him more.
5.) Wherever you put Favre on the list, you have to put Manning ahead of him. There are about a dozen reasons this is true.
6.) Wherever you put Bradshaw on the list, Roethlisberger has to be ahead of him.
7.) Eli could have won any title Bart Starr won. That team was loaded. Starr could not have won either of Eli's titles.
8.) Aaron Rodgers should probably appear on the list already. He was missing about one-third of his skill set yesterday, and he was still the best guy on either team. He's better than Favre. Deep down, you know it. I know it. Jerry Jones knows it.
9.) If we're getting into single super bowl winners, I demand Doug Williams be on the list. Only one QB in history -- and it sure wasn't Steve Young -- was able to succeed wearing Creamsincle orange (and you thought we have uni problems).
Doug Williams made the 1970s Tampa Bay Bucs a winner. It's difficult to overstate how impressive that is.
Peyton Manning is the Kobe of the NFL. They are both smart and know to blame others when stuff goes wrong. Manning got Fox fired. Apparently Manning will retire if Adam Gaze leaves Denver and he was SF's #1 guy so now Fox gets popped and if Gaze gets the Denver HC job Manning will stay.
It is a Machiavellian move by Manning to keep his guy.
It is a Machiavellian move by Manning to keep his guy.
Manning has won one more playoff game in Denver than Tebow.
Cusefan0307
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I don't care if he got Tony Dungy to come out of retirement, there's no way he's getting through the AFC next year with Brady still around, and Luck a year better.
BuffOrange
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Holy s*** this thread is embarrassing.
sufandu
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I love how football is tabbed the ultimate team sport, with scheme and strategy discussed more than in any other sport, yet QB's are labeled with wins and losses as if it were tennis.
Will Peyton's lack of playoff success tarnish his legacy? Yes.
Should Peyton's lack of playoff success tarnish his legacy? No.
Will Peyton's lack of playoff success tarnish his legacy? Yes.
Should Peyton's lack of playoff success tarnish his legacy? No.
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