Class of 2023 PF Joseph "JP" Estrella (ME / Brewster) Offered

[AZOrange]

If (small word with big meaning) we have a good year and the best players return ( could be all of the team) we don’t need JP.

We absolutely need players like JP. There are a TON of question marks here and we will have movement of 3-4 players like every year

 

[007]

We absolutely need players like JP. There are a TON of question marks here and we will have movement of 3-4 players like every year

Yup. At least 3-4

 

[rrlbees]

Exactly….and therein is the issue

How is it an issue if it’s what a recruit wants to hear? It’s not what some fans want but fans aren’t the recruit.

 

[pearl31]

How is it an issue if it’s what a recruit wants to hear? It’s not what some fans want but fans aren’t the recruit.

Because it's likely not what's actually going to happen, and most recruits/parents can see that?

edit: and hey JB pretty much has to give that as an answer, I guess - it's the situation that's a mess, inevitably - the proverbial elephant in the room, old coach at the end of his run still trying to recruit

 

[rrlbees]

Because it's likely not what's actually going to happen, and most recruits/parents can see that?

I don’t think JB would just blatantly lie to a recruit.

 

[pearl31]

I don’t think JB would just blatantly lie to a recruit.

*his* plan in *his* mind isn't a lie, even if it's not necessarily reality

 

[DilemaCuse]

FWIW, Tennessee is at their scholarship allotment for 2023 which is 13 the max. Now that does not mean that they are done recruiting. One of their ?returning? Players could always leave. They appear to still need a big man, center type.

in addition, Marquette who just signed a 6’8“PF is also at 13 scholarships allotted for 2023, but the same logic holds that one of their returning players could leave before 2023.

In the portal era its easy to oversign because its a given that current players will leave before their eligibility expires

 

[pearl31]

Which actually brings a question to mind, does the family of a recruit like Estrella try and go straight to the AD with the "who's gonna be my coach" question?

 

[AZOrange]

Makes sense. We're in a bad position for multiple reasons -- JB's uncertain status is key, but so is the current state of the program. Can't be overlooked.

And frankly, the family might not be comfortable with the ostensible succession plan that has been discussed ad nauseum here, if it has been communicated to them. That might make some of those other schools more attractive than SU.

Tenn is what they are but they play an exciting brand of basketball and were a pretty high seed in the NCAAs. We are who we are. Pretty mediocre.

 

[DilemaCuse]

Well, that clinches it. Now I can commence to be PO’d.
Could the 800lb gorilla be of the grey-haired variety, whose name rhymes with Schmayheim?
Actually, on 2nd thought…I’m leaning more towards disappointment, frustration, and impotence, than anger.
This is like a long term marriage that’s on its last legs, but getting more & more stale every day. You can’t just divorce after all those years, so you’re left to wait it out hoping it won’t become unbearable. This year HAS to be make-or-break, otherwise be prepared for the long, slow, trudge to mediocrity to continue. JMHO

Agreed, thats why they need to shift to building the team through the portal for short term gains, year to year basis. Its hard to lay out a 4 year plan when there has been no public announcement of succession plan, HCIW, etc.

 

[AZOrange]

How is it an issue if it’s what a recruit wants to hear? It’s not what some fans want but fans aren’t the recruit.

Because in most recruiting circles the rumor is that it’s not true.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I wonder what JP’s decision would be if:
1. I’m done after this year and Red or GMAC are taking over or
2. I plan to be here when you get here.
The first might be a complete no go.

 

[MikeSU02]

How is it an issue if it’s what a recruit wants to hear? It’s not what some fans want but fans aren’t the recruit.

Because a recruit and his parents are aware of the situation and the risk that is associated with it.

It's not that JB is lying, per se, but that there are some things that are subject to change or at least impact JP's college career.

Our situation at Syracuse is not as stable as most others. There has been one public disruption of a transition plan that had a probation tethered to it. We have a very old coach (in terms of D1 coaches' ages). We do not have a public facing transition plan outside of the hilariously-entitled "iron clad" plan that JB mentioned.

And, while I am sure that JP has had info conveyed to him and his family that would suggest that a) JB will be here for him and b) things are stable and secure, there is a track record of it not being so and coming off the past few years, we're not exactly a title-contending program right now.

My personal feelings mean nothing, but I think it's pretty clear it's pretty easy to pick apart any promises made and at least seed doubt. Now, that risk comes against the upside of JB being a HoFer, of getting guys like JP to the league, of being able to feature guys like JP on O, and JB being tied to a ton of NBA players and execs. I mean, let's be real, NIL is cool, but the goal is at least two contracts in the NBA.

 

[DilemaCuse]

Every time I think I’m out…

 

[hoopsupstate]

Tenn is what they are but they play an exciting brand of basketball and were a pretty high seed in the NCAAs. We are who we are. Pretty mediocre.

Who completely bombed out, which is the norm for Barnes.

 

[MikeSU02]

Which actually brings a question to mind, does the family of a recruit like Estrella try and go straight to the AD with the "who's gonna be my coach" question?

Wouldn't you? You have a kid in this situation, I'd be hitting up the AD, the assistant coaches, the ball boy, the chancellor and the dining hall attendants. I mean, I'd be digging to get every bit of info I could if this was my kid.

 

[DilemaCuse]

When JB went on Brent Axe and said there is an iron clad plan, someone on here said the signs of how good that ironclad plan is will show in the class of 23. Still to be determined but the question is coming up here in late August

 

[JeremyCuse]

Between this and Ducharme, not exactly a summer to remember from a recruiting standpoint. 23 was always gonna be a small class but yikes

 

[RF2044]

I wonder what JP’s decision would be if:
1. I’m done after this year and Red or GMAC are taking over or
2. I plan to be here when you get here.
The first might be a complete no go.

Might be.

Hard to say -- but that's what I allude to above. Maybe that in conjunction with other factors [NIL, style of play, weather, or whatever] pushes them toward other programs with less uncertain trajectories.

 

[Sherman20]

Makes sense. We're in a bad position for multiple reasons -- JB's uncertain status is key, but so is the current state of the program. Can't be overlooked.

And frankly, the family might not be comfortable with the ostensible succession plan that has been discussed ad nauseum here, if it has been communicated to them. That might make some of those other schools more attractive than SU.

I agree. But then again, tides can turn and recruiting momentum can shift. We just landed a top 25 class in 2022. If most of that class develops, if Mintz turns into a star, if Benny improves and makes strides this season, and we land JP, Reid and Trey for 2023, maybe the narrative on recruiting and the program starts to change. I just want JB to be able to hand off the program to the next guy in a more solid state or at least back on the upswing again. One can hope.

 

[MikeSU02]

When JB went on Brent Axe and said there is an iron clad plan, someone on here said the signs of how good that ironclad plan is will show in the class of 23. Still to be determined but the question is coming up here in late August

I want to be careful not to stray from the topic of JP, but this is exactly why I was worried about the "iron clad" plan being an external-facing line without an external-facing plan.

Again, I'm sure JP has been told a plan and has a reassurance. But it's pretty tough to convey a level of trust and certainty when you have an array of options that are comparable and some may even be better, to be honest, without the similar coaching situation.

And, for any high level recruit, I feel like this issue will keep being front and center. Last year we were able to pull in Mintz, just hope we can keep convincing a few high level kids coming in.

The other thing in the back of my mind (and why JP is really important to me) is that we had a six person class last year and there is no way all six are still here after this year. Whether it be a jump to going pro or not loving the playing time outlook, some of those kids will be leaving. It's just the way it is now. We need to land the JPs of the world to slot in for program stability as we head into whatever transition plan occurs at whatever time.

 

[AZOrange]

When JB went on Brent Axe and said there is an iron clad plan, someone on here said the signs of how good that ironclad plan is will show in the class of 23. Still to be determined but the question is coming up here in late August

Yes. The 2023 class was noted as being one of the toughest to fill as we have to address the plan

 

[AZOrange]

I want to be careful not to stray from the topic of JP, but this is exactly why I was worried about the "iron clad" plan being an external-facing line without an external-facing plan.

Again, I'm sure JP has been told a plan and has a reassurance. But it's pretty tough to convey a level of trust and certainty when you have an array of options that are comparable and some may even be better, to be honest, without the similar coaching situation.

And, for any high level recruit, I feel like this issue will keep being front and center. Last year we were able to pull in Mintz, just hope we can keep convincing a few high level kids coming in.

The other thing in the back of my mind (and why JP is really important to me) is that we had a six person class last year and there is no way all six are still here after this year. Whether it be a jump to going pro or not loving the playing time outlook, some of those kids will be leaving. It's just the way it is now. We need to land the JPs of the world to slot in for program stability as we head into whatever transition plan occurs at whatever time.

Mintz is a non issue because we knew JB would coach 2022 and Mintz will be here for 1

 

[rrlbees]

So what I’m reading is that JP wants to play for JB but posters don’t want JB to coach JP. Sounds like the perfect storm for some.

 

[MikeSU02]

Mintz is a non issue because we knew JB would coach 2022 and Mintz will be here for 1

I apologize, I meant level of talent like Mintz. I'm not expecting him after this year. But appreciate the clarity (and all of your other info).