Class of 2022 - PG Dior Johnson (NY / CA) | Page 76 | Syracusefan.com

Class of 2022 PG Dior Johnson (NY / CA)

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sutomcat said:
I think you have to look at context when looking at rebounding numbers for guards. During Buddy’s frosh year, the point guard was a senior, Frank Howard, who understood his role as the ‘safety’ for the Syracuse defense and generally did a good job being in good position near the top of the key when SU took a shot of offense, and generally got back quickly to hold off the opponents’ transition game. If Frank wasn’t the PG, it was Tyus, who also knew his role preventing transition at the point.

During his sophomore year, Buddy played almost all season with frosh point guards. They were not as good at positioning, and did a much worse job heading off the transition game. I strongly suspect JB told Buddy to forget about trying to get offensive rebounds last season and to concentrate on getting back and preventing easy fast break baskets.

On the defensive side of the ball, I think everyone who watches SU basketball has noticed how often Buddy gets 3s in transition. He is most dangerous in those unsettled situations and again, I suspect JB has instructed him to get out on the break when the other team takes a shot and look for transition 3s.

I don’t think there is any way he gets as many points and as many shots if he is instructed to focus on rebounding instead.
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And then logic comes to save the day! Thank you, Tom.
 
OttoinGrotto said:
So at least for our 2 guards, I ran some rebounding numbers a little while back - Buddy is bad. Dior isn't a 2, but let's just say it's not hard for Dior to outperform Buddy rebounding.

Here's my top notch analysis:

I looked up their per 40s rebounding because I'm bored as Hell. Here are their best seasons:

Dion - 3.8 (animal)
Devo - 3.6 (but a very weird case, that was his freshman year. He actually got worse rebounding per 40 every season and ended his senior season at 2.3. Strange.)
Battle - 3.6
Shaky potatoes - 3.0 (insert white guy stereotype here)

Buddy was Rodman on the boards last season at 3.8 per 40. This season he's at 2.3. That's a pretty significant drop off, and ties Devo for the worst per 40 rebounding of the guards you mentioned. I think it's a legitimate concern.

So... the stats suggest this season Buddy is as bad as we've seen as a rebounding 2 guard of the guys you mentioned.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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So basically, we're arguing about 1-1.5 boards per 40. Got it.
 
Gotothehole said:
Because guards were run out this program who had defensive ability and could impact the game when not scoring. When anyone gets 35 plus mins game much is expected . Do you recall our record last year?
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The guys who left aren't nearly as good as the ones who played, and they proved it over, and over, and over again.. Their lack of shot making and their turnovers hurt a team far more than any dillusionally perceived lack of rebounding by guys who's primary defensive job is pinching in to prevent penetration and challenging 3 point shots.
Your animous toward Buddy and JB colors your arguments to the point of them being non-sensical.
 
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sutomcat said:
I think you have to look at context when looking at rebounding numbers for guards. During Buddy’s frosh year, the point guard was a senior, Frank Howard, who understood his role as the ‘safety’ for the Syracuse defense and generally did a good job being in good position near the top of the key when SU took a shot of offense, and generally got back quickly to hold off the opponents’ transition game. If Frank wasn’t the PG, it was Tyus, who also knew his role preventing transition at the point.

During his sophomore year, Buddy played almost all season with frosh point guards. They were not as good at positioning, and did a much worse job heading off the transition game. I strongly suspect JB told Buddy to forget about trying to get offensive rebounds last season and to concentrate on getting back and preventing easy fast break baskets.

On the defensive side of the ball, I think everyone who watches SU basketball has noticed how often Buddy gets 3s in transition. He is most dangerous in those unsettled situations and again, I suspect JB has instructed him to get out on the break when the other team takes a shot and look for transition 3s.

I don’t think there is any way he gets as many points and as many shots if he is instructed to focus on rebounding instead.
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I think you've done a nice job here of explaining the possible strategic reasons why Jackson's per 40 rebounding numbers dropped so dramatically to tie for the worst in our recent 2 guard historical performance.

I think you're letting him off the hook a bit though.

To me the question is what's the delta between rebounds that Jackson could have gotten, and rebounds that he did. I think, based on watching the games, that it is a meaningful difference. I also believe that it's a place in his game where a slight bit more effort can bring a disproportionate amount of result. He doesn't need to be engaged in crashing the boards for 40 minutes a game. He just needs to be a bit more aware of when he has a chance for the board and put a little more effort in. Those possessions matter. People bemoan what it does for our offense when we have a non-scorer threat on the floor. Well... the same thing happens when we have a guy that doesn't rebound, at all.

alphaorange said:
So basically, we're arguing about 1-1.5 boards per 40. Got it.
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I would say in Jackson's case it's a pretty meaningful thing to look at, especially given how frequently he plays 40 minutes or near 40 minutes.
 
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OttoinGrotto said:
I think you've done a nice job here of explaining the possible strategic reasons why Jackson's per 40 rebounding numbers dropped so dramatically to tie for the worst in our recent 2 guard historical performance.

I think you're letting him off the hook a bit though.

To me the question is what's the delta between rebounds that Jackson could have gotten, and rebounds that he did. I think, based on watching the games, that it is a meaningful difference. I also believe that it's a place in his game where a slight bit more effort can bring a disproportionate amount of result. He doesn't need to be engaged in crashing the boards for 40 minutes a game. He just needs to be a bit more aware of when he has a chance for the board and put a little more effort in. Those possessions matter. People bemoan what it does for our offense when we have a non-scorer threat on the floor. Well... the same thing happens when we have a guy that doesn't rebound, at all.


I would say in Jackson's case it's a pretty meaningful thing to look at, especially given how frequently he plays 40 minutes or near 40 minutes.
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Why Jackson, oh nickname arbiter?

How many one possession games swing the other way if we get one more rebound?

I bet Dior gets them...
 
I don’t think anyone really cares about the actual rebounding stats for Buddy. It’s just that it was too often painfully obvious that he was ‘indifferent’ to rebounding and just shied away from getting involved with them when effort or contact might be involved. Just bad optics.
 
721Comstock said:
Jackson is what it says on his birth certificate and drivers license, among other things.

Mom Juli came up with the nickname Buddy, and it stuck.

Really wish she’d gone with Mookie or Scoop instead.
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Niastri said:
Why Jackson, oh nickname arbiter?

How many one possession games swing the other way if we get one more rebound?

I bet Dior gets them...
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And how many games would have been lost because Buddy went to the boards instead of getting back to prevent a break? It's not they (Buddy and Joe) have "make up ground" speed. I'd rather stop a sure 2+ than give up an offensive rebound with less than a 50% chance of a score.
 
alphaorange said:
And how many games would have been lost because Buddy went to the boards instead of getting back to prevent a break? It's not they (Buddy and Joe) have "make up ground" speed. I'd rather stop a sure 2+ than give up an offensive rebound with less than a 50% chance of a score.
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Hang on - we're taking it as a given that Jackson's rebounding totals are comparatively poor because he was so diligent making the effort to get back to prevent a break, when we saw firsthand circumstances where he simply didn't make an effort to get to rebounds in his area?
 
OttoinGrotto said:
Hang on - we're taking it as a given that Jackson's rebounding totals are comparatively poor because he was so diligent making the effort to get back to prevent a break, when we saw firsthand circumstances where he simply didn't make an effort to get to rebounds in his area?
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OR “get back to prevent a break”.

It’s ok to do one, or the other.
Much less so to do neither.
 
alphaorange said:
And how many games would have been lost because Buddy went to the boards instead of getting back to prevent a break? It's not they (Buddy and Joe) have "make up ground" speed. I'd rather stop a sure 2+ than give up an offensive rebound with less than a 50% chance of a score.
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almost Nobody in the nba goes hard for offensive boards as a team anymore...just not worth it
 
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