Class of 2022 PG Dior Johnson (NY / CA)

[Gotothehole]

So Joe is better than Buddy because you like his personality better?

Buddy will score 20 and give 20 . Curious to know what is defensive efficiency numbers look like Buddy to the bench nothing personal

 

[creatorsgam]

Buddy will score 20 and give 20 so it’s a wash. Buddy to the bench nothing personal just facts

Exactly.

There is absolutely no way anyone improves their defensive game, ever.

Player growth? GTF outta here with such tales of fantasy!

Dior is on the floor. Somehow JB will find enough minutes for everyone else.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

If JB is serious about winning then Buddy needs to come off the bench. Let’s see if Nepotism rules the house.

 

[Gotothehole]

Did he a get a rebound in that game? Allergic to the paint and glass

 

[Gotothehole]

Exactly.

There is absolutely no way anyone improves their defensive game, ever.

Player growth? GTF outta here with such tales of fantasy!

Dior is on the floor. Somehow JB will find enough minutes for everyone else.

Does he want to play defense that’s the question

 

[creatorsgam]

Does he want to play defense that’s the question

I don’t see a Taurean Thompson-level of apathy on the defensive end of the floor.

I will end that here. This isn’t the right thread for this debate.

 

[Gotothehole]

I don’t see a Taurean Thompson-level of apathy on the defensive end of the floor.

I will end that here. This isn’t the right thread for this debate.

Buddy Boeheim Stats | FOX Sports

Find detailed Buddy Boeheim Stats on FOXSports.com including points, rebounds, assists, steals, & more.

www.foxsports.com

 

[kidorange]

Does he want to play defense that’s the question

He did an interview last week, (think I saw it on this site) and said he needs to get faster and better on defense and is working on that. I don't question his will, just his lateral quickness.

 

[OrangeDW]

Buddy will score 20 and give 20 . Curious to know what is defensive efficiency numbers look like Buddy to the bench nothing personal

No question we struggled defensively up top. But even though Joe would get some steals, I think he was just as big of an issue. Hopefully both will get better as upperclassmen.

 

[Todoubled23]

No question we struggled defensively up top. But even though Joe would get some steals, I think he was just as big of an issue. Hopefully both will get better as upperclassmen.

Agreed, buddy was too slow, joe gambled a little too much going for some of those imo. Bad combo lol

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Did he a get a rebound in that game? Allergic to the paint and glass

If you think that is Buddy's value, you need to go to basketball 101.
BTW, a quick review of the box score would give you the answer. Your ignorance is borne out here.

Syracuse basketball box score at Virginia Tech

The numbers from the Orange's game against the Hokies.

www.syracuse.com

 

[OrangeDW]

If you think that is Buddy's value, you need to go to basketball 101.
BTW, a quick review of the box score would give you the answer. Your ignorance is borne out here.

Syracuse basketball box score at Virginia Tech

The numbers from the Orange's game against the Hokies.

www.syracuse.com

Yeah, I don’t remember people ever harping on the rebounding ability of a guard, until Buddy. It’s an odd complaint to be sure. Buddy’s rebounding ain’t making a lick of difference either way.

 

[721Comstock]

Yeah, I don’t remember people ever harping on the rebounding ability of a guard, until Buddy. It’s an odd complaint to be sure. Buddy’s rebounding ain’t making a lick of difference either way.

I just spent some time on OrangeHoops,org, and the only 2 guards of recent vintage I could find who averaged < 2 boards / game were:
Buddy.
John Gillon.

Which, given that Buddy is 8” taller, not the primary ball-handler, and played All The Minutes, is kinda embarrassing.

Even guys not noted for D or rebounding like GMac and Devo, averaged better than 2.5/game.

I’d really love to see Jackson keep developing and rounding out his game like Andy Rautins did. Andy was “too slow and skinny” to play D1 ball, but overcame that to work himself into a do-everything player, and an excellent defender and solid rebounder from the 2 spot.

No reason Buddy can’t do similar - he’s got a great work ethic, and every possible resource available to him.

 

[OrangeDW]

Agreed, buddy was too slow, joe gambled a little too much going for some of those imo. Bad combo lol

Yup. You nailed it. I hope Buddy can “play” a little faster as he becomes an upperclassman, and Joe can better understand where he needs to be. Both have physical limitations to overcome, but maybe they can become solid In the zone.

 

[Gotothehole]

Yeah, I don’t remember people ever harping on the rebounding ability of a guard, until Buddy. It’s an odd complaint to be sure. Buddy’s rebounding ain’t making a lick of difference either way.

Because guards were run out this program who had defensive ability and could impact the game when not scoring. When anyone gets 35 plus mins game much is expected . Do you recall our record last year?

 

[kcsu]

Buddy and Joe will never be very good on D as they dont have the skills or athletic ability. Buddy has good height but is slow. Joe is small. Both guys are hard workers who will bust it to get better but their ceiling is average at best based on their physical limitations

 

[Niastri]

If you think that is Buddy's value, you need to go to basketball 101.
BTW, a quick review of the box score would give you the answer. Your ignorance is borne out here.

Syracuse basketball box score at Virginia Tech

The numbers from the Orange's game against the Hokies.

www.syracuse.com

Two rebounds, in case anybody was wondering and too lazy to even click a link.

To go with 10-20 shooting. One of the headlines was "Syracuse dominates Virginia Tech in the paint" which maybe doesn't happen without Buddy helping spread the floor.

I bet Dior averages more than 2.5 rebounds from the guard position. (Just to get back on topic)

 

[OttoinGrotto]

So at least for our 2 guards, I ran some rebounding numbers a little while back - Buddy is bad. Dior isn't a 2, but let's just say it's not hard for Dior to outperform Buddy rebounding.

Here's my top notch analysis:

I looked up their per 40s rebounding because I'm bored as Hell. Here are their best seasons:

Dion - 3.8 (animal)
Devo - 3.6 (but a very weird case, that was his freshman year. He actually got worse rebounding per 40 every season and ended his senior season at 2.3. Strange.)
Battle - 3.6
Shaky potatoes - 3.0 (insert white guy stereotype here)

Buddy was Rodman on the boards last season at 3.8 per 40. This season he's at 2.3. That's a pretty significant drop off, and ties Devo for the worst per 40 rebounding of the guards you mentioned. I think it's a legitimate concern.

So... the stats suggest this season Buddy is as bad as we've seen as a rebounding 2 guard of the guys you mentioned.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Niastri]

So at least for our 2 guards, I ran some rebounding numbers a little while back - Buddy is bad. Dior isn't a 2, but let's just say it's not hard for Dior to outperform Buddy rebounding.

Guard position doesn't matter on defense, neither guard position is supposed to leak out for cherry picking, right? Other than that, they will be in equally good position for rebounds at the top of the zone. Dior being quick, long armed and explosive should help him get at long rebounds and even steal one from the big guys from time to time.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Yup. You nailed it. I hope Buddy can “play” a little faster as he becomes an upperclassman, and Joe can better understand where he needs to be. Both have physical limitations to overcome, but maybe they can become solid In the zone.

Short rests for both of them would help with their effort, especially in the second half of games.
By February, I felt like both of them were pacing themselves on defense. If we had given 10 minutes to one of those guys - Goodine, somebody, they might have stayed and they ALL might have played a bit better than they did.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Guard position doesn't matter on defense, neither guard position is supposed to leak out for cherry picking, right?

Unless you are only talking about rebounding, I would say this is a truly terrible post.
Obviously guards have to prevent penetration into the interior of the defense, whether it's man or zone.
They have to challenge shots and be aware of 3 point threats. They need to disrupt passes to the interior, or skip passes across the court.

Even if you were talking about guards not being important to defensive rebounding, I probably would still disagree, and think that a 6-6 shooting guard should get 3 or 4 rebounds a game.
In fact, he should be at least turning and looking for the long rebound before he takes off downcourt looking to spot up for three.

 

[Niastri]

Unless you are only talking about rebounding, I would say this is a truly terrible post.
Obviously guards have to prevent penetration into the interior of the defense, whether it's man or zone.
They have to challenge shots and be aware of 3 point threats. They need to disrupt passes to the interior, or skip passes across the court.

Even if you were talking about guards not being important to defensive rebounding, I probably would still disagree, and think that a 6-6 shooting guard should get 3 or 4 rebounds a game.
In fact, he should be at least turning and looking for the long rebound before he takes off downcourt looking to spot up for three.

I must have been unclear... Defensively, there is little or no difference between the guard positions at the top of the zone. So differentiating between "point" and "shooting" guard when taking about rebounding seemed extraneous... Especially when someone compared him to the worst rebounding guards irrespective of position from the last decade.

I was being facetious about one or the other being assigned to cherry pick.

Although in a given game where an opposing player is known to be bad at getting back...

 

[moqui]

i'm so old, i remember when "boeheim has to quit recruiting athletic guys who are good for the top of the zone and instead load up on shooters" was a thing

 

[sutomcat]

So at least for our 2 guards, I ran some rebounding numbers a little while back - Buddy is bad. Dior isn't a 2, but let's just say it's not hard for Dior to outperform Buddy rebounding.

Here's my top notch analysis:

I looked up their per 40s rebounding because I'm bored as Hell. Here are their best seasons:

Dion - 3.8 (animal)
Devo - 3.6 (but a very weird case, that was his freshman year. He actually got worse rebounding per 40 every season and ended his senior season at 2.3. Strange.)
Battle - 3.6
Shaky potatoes - 3.0 (insert white guy stereotype here)

Buddy was Rodman on the boards last season at 3.8 per 40. This season he's at 2.3. That's a pretty significant drop off, and ties Devo for the worst per 40 rebounding of the guards you mentioned. I think it's a legitimate concern.

So... the stats suggest this season Buddy is as bad as we've seen as a rebounding 2 guard of the guys you mentioned.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think you have to look at context when looking at rebounding numbers for guards. During Buddy’s frosh year, the point guard was a senior, Frank Howard, who understood his role as the ‘safety’ for the Syracuse defense and generally did a good job being in good position near the top of the key when SU took a shot of offense, and generally got back quickly to hold off the opponents’ transition game. If Frank wasn’t the PG, it was Tyus, who also knew his role preventing transition at the point.

During his sophomore year, Buddy played almost all season with frosh point guards. They were not as good at positioning, and did a much worse job heading off the transition game. I strongly suspect JB told Buddy to forget about trying to get offensive rebounds last season and to concentrate on getting back and preventing easy fast break baskets.

On the defensive side of the ball, I think everyone who watches SU basketball has noticed how often Buddy gets 3s in transition. He is most dangerous in those unsettled situations and again, I suspect JB has instructed him to get out on the break when the other team takes a shot and look for transition 3s.

I don’t think there is any way he gets as many points and as many shots if he is instructed to focus on rebounding instead.

 

[JLine]

He’s not off limits but you’ve gotta make real points, IMO. Girard’s D wasn’t any better than Buddy’s and the “at least he’s got some dog in him” thing is meaningless too. Buddy comes to play too, he just doesn’t have the personality to where he has to make a show about it.

i'm so old, i remember when "boeheim has to quit recruiting athletic guys who are good for the top of the zone and instead load up on shooters" was a thing

At this point, I just gotta laugh this stuff off, and move on. Decades of criticizing JB isn’t exactly the great credential that these fools think it is. Anyone who wonders why JB can’t just be nicer to the dweebs asking him pointed questions, need not look further than the gems here about Buddy, and JB’s apparent nepotism beating out his desire to win. It’s hilariously dumb, and off base, but I guess if you throw enough...eventually it will stick. At least we’re cycling back around to his rebounding woes from the top of the zone again! That’s a favorite of mine. Same bums that probably yell out miss!...when Buddy leaks out for a transition three.