Class of 2017 PG Jose Alvarado (NY) to Ga Tech

[jordoo]

Of course he does, and I can't blame a kid of his family. I blame the NCAA for turning a blind eye to it all. If they can spend 8 years on our campus to find tiny little infractions, certainly they can see this kind of crap.

Jerry Tarkanian really did say it best "The NCAA is so mad at Kentucky they're going to give Cleveland State another year of probation." Remember SU is a small private school that is a top10 all time bball program. The NCAA can come down hard on us to appear to be tough on a legit program.

 

[SU94]

No offense to Alvarado, who seems like a quality prospect, but this ^^^^ sucks.

Quade is a must-get for our program, IMO.

I want Quade signing our dotted line, but I disagree with this assessment. Must have? We have Frank H. through the Spring of 2019. We have other 2017 PG options. We have 2018 PG options. We have the potential for transfers. 5th year guys, etc. You know the drill.

This is not a pass/fail type of thing with Green. For many reasons, I believe our program is bigger than all of that. Heck, we just made the Final Four with a 5th-year small forward playing the point.

 

[RF2044]

I want Quade signing our dotted line, but I disagree with this assessment. Must have? We have Frank H. through the Spring of 2019. We have other 2017 PG options. We have 2018 PG options. We have the potential for transfers. 5th year guys, etc. You know the drill.

This is not a pass/fail type of thing with Green. For many reasons, I believe our program is bigger than all of that. Heck, we just made the Final Four with a 5th-year small forward playing the point.

Yes--he's a "must have." We have been recruiting this guy for two full years. We have a significant "in" with the high school program / coach, due to several of his former players excelling at Syracuse University not long ago. Our coaching staff did an excellent job identifying this above average talent early and working hard to land him.

Fast forward two years, and Green has blown up into what somebody suggested in his thread as the top point guard prospect in high school basketball. We lose out on this kid, there is no adequate replacement. We land him, and a number of other top prospects will follow suit like dominoes--an important consideration, as we may only have four scholarship players returning after this season.

Landing Green is about as close to a "must have" as there is, across a variety of factors. If your point is: we could land a grad transfer--I suppose, but do you want to head into next May / June needing to fill that spot? Also, Howard could be a nice four year player for us, but c'mon.

 

[jordoo]

Yes--he's a "must have." We have been recruiting this guy for two full years. We have a significant "in" with the high school program / coach, due to several of his former players excelling at Syracuse University not long ago. Our coaching staff did an excellent job identifying this above average talent early and working hard to land him.

Fast forward two years, and Green has blown up into what somebody suggested in his thread as the top point guard prospect in high school basketball. We lose out on this kid, there is no adequate replacement. We land him, and a number of other top prospects will follow suit like dominoes--an important consideration, as we may only have four scholarship players returning after this season.

Landing Green is about as close to a "must have" as there is, across a variety of factors. If your point is: we could land a grad transfer--I suppose, but do you want to head into next May / June needing to fill that spot? Also, Howard could be a nice four year player for us, but c'mon.

My big issue is that to take the next step recruiting wise we need to win some of these head to head against the likes of Duke and UK. As you say we have been on Quade longer than anyone and offered way before these two schools. If we can't break through on this one then it is not a positive sign for our brand. I know pretty much every school takes a back seat in recruiting against Duke and UK but I want SU to be able to hold onto these kids that we start recruiting first against them.

 

[NYCorange]

Go check out what CuseRaised said on the Q. Green thread. I can co-sign all of that on how things will get messy there. Not saying we can't get Q, but it's going to be much tougher now than we had hope for.

Francis03 Break it down for me how recruiting works, both across the country, and at Syracuse. You and cuseraised seem to think that "bags" get offered out on a very regular basis to top recruits. I don't doubt that this happens, but given that Duke and UK are our primary competition for this kid, specifically it sounds like you think that UK and/or Duke are regulars in this business (or that they have boosters that do it for them). And given that you think that this lowers our (Syracuse's) chances, it sounds like you don't think that we engage in it ourselves (or don't have boosters that do it). I don't doubt your opinion, I just wonder what experience/knowledge informs your thoughts.

 

[orangefog]

My big issue is that to take the next step recruiting wise we need to win some of these head to head against the likes of Duke and UK. As you say we have been on Quade longer than anyone and offered way before these two schools. If we can't break through on this one then it is not a positive sign for our brand. I know pretty much every school takes a back seat in recruiting against Duke and UK but I want SU to be able to hold onto these kids that we start recruiting first against them.

We aren't playing on a level playing field though. That'$ the problem. If it came down to identifying a kid early and developing a relationship and quality of education and facilities, we are right there, and definitely ahead of Kentucky, who $omehow lands these kids only weeks after starting to recruit them. You can do everything right and still miss on a kid for reasons beyond your control.

 

[tee1222]

Pretty soon we are going to hear how Quade's mom and World Wide Wes are old pals, practically cousins and that he pretty much helped raise Quade. ESPN will run a heart warming story about the whole thing and Calipari will be there shedding a tear over the special relationship.

Great post. Used to be that these types of posts were labelled 'conspiracy theories'. Doesn't look that way anymore.
Cousin Wes, you are the Best!

 

[SU94]

Yes--he's a "must have." We have been recruiting this guy for two full years. We have a significant "in" with the high school program / coach, due to several of his former players excelling at Syracuse University not long ago. Our coaching staff did an excellent job identifying this above average talent early and working hard to land him.

Fast forward two years, and Green has blown up into what somebody suggested in his thread as the top point guard prospect in high school basketball. We lose out on this kid, there is no adequate replacement. We land him, and a number of other top prospects will follow suit like dominoes--an important consideration, as we may only have four scholarship players returning after this season.

Landing Green is about as close to a "must have" as there is, across a variety of factors. If your point is: we could land a grad transfer--I suppose, but do you want to head into next May / June needing to fill that spot? Also, Howard could be a nice four year player for us, but c'mon.

I hear your point and it's well made. I just think my definition of "must get" is different than yours. From what I've read from you, you think it is imperative, cricial or at the very least important to get Green. I'll buy in on that. If Green decides to go another route, however, I am pretty sure that the Syracuse brand will not only survive, but prosper. Just on a different path than the one we are all hoping for and envisioning.

Don't get me wrong. I want this kid to wear Orange. We'd be better served in this scenario for many reasons, most of which you list. But I promise, it is not do or die, or pass/fail. If not Q.Green, there will be others. This is not SU's version of "the Decision."

 

[Scotch]

Francis03 Break it down for me how recruiting works, both across the country, and at Syracuse. You and cuseraised seem to think that "bags" get offered out on a very regular basis to top recruits. I don't doubt that this happens, but given that Duke and UK are our primary competition for this kid, specifically it sounds like you think that UK and/or Duke are regulars in this business (or that they have boosters that do it for them). And given that you think that this lowers our (Syracuse's) chances, it sounds like you don't think that we engage in it ourselves (or don't have boosters that do it). I don't doubt your opinion, I just wonder what experience/knowledge informs your thoughts.

 

[Cuse'91]

So this trend of returning to a traditional ball distributing point guard must be Hops influence, right? He must favor speed/vision over height, no? Does this herald the end of the MCW-like tall point guards?

Green, Alvarado, and even Coleman seem to fit a similar mold...

 

[RF2044]

I hear your point and it's well made. I just think my definition of "must get" is different than yours. From what I've read from you, you think it is imperative, cricial or at the very least important to get Green. I'll buy in on that. If Green decides to go another route, however, I am pretty sure that the Syracuse brand will not only survive, but prosper. Just on a different path than the one we are all hoping for and envisioning.

Don't get me wrong. I want this kid to wear Orange. We'd be better served in this scenario for many reasons, most of which you list. But I promise, it is not do or die, or pass/fail. If not Q.Green, there will be others. This is not SU's version of "the Decision."

I hear you. End of the world / sky is falling? No. But when you think of how long many board insiders have considered Green to be a high priority near lock, and how many of them have also been saying that he is a kid we absolutely have to land in the class of 2017, and also the weight that he has with other kids we are recruiting, losing out on him would be huge.

It is tough to replace one of the best lead guard prospects in the country with anybody. Let alone how infrequently we land actual blue chippers--of which there is no doubt that Quade Green is one.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I don't think its just UK and Duke wow kids with po$itve$. Hamidou Diallo is another that's getting the hard sell:

"[Duke's pitch to Diallo] rubbed Calipari the wrong way because he wrote Monday on his blog: “I refuse to go in a home and paint a picture saying things like, ‘If you come with us you’ll be taken care of for the rest of your life by the program and by our alums,’ even though you may only be in school for a year or two. How preposterous does that sound? What if I say that same thing and the young man decides to transfer for one reason or another? Does that still hold true that we’re going to take care of them the rest of their lives?"
​

What does that look like to you? Looks like a straight up payment plan to me. There's no NCAA violation for a school's alumni network to pay players who are no longer enrolled at the school. There's rules against explicitly promising that to players, but there it is from Calipari's mouth in the Washington Post.

But hey, look over there, some Syracuse college players smoked some weed.

 

[rackman18]

I hear your point and it's well made. I just think my definition of "must get" is different than yours. From what I've read from you, you think it is imperative, cricial or at the very least important to get Green. I'll buy in on that. If Green decides to go another route, however, I am pretty sure that the Syracuse brand will not only survive, but prosper. Just on a different path than the one we are all hoping for and envisioning.

Don't get me wrong. I want this kid to wear Orange. We'd be better served in this scenario for many reasons, most of which you list. But I promise, it is not do or die, or pass/fail. If not Q.Green, there will be others. This is not SU's version of "the Decision."

This is probably the best post and most accurate statement said. Not that no other isn't but this just to me hit it right on. great post to me. jmo

 

[Mstumpy50]

Spring EYBL mixtape

 

[Deano]

I don't see a problem with this kid or Coleman if things go south ($$$) with Green.

 

[HoustonCuse]

What's funny about all this is that Duke and Kentucky can recruit against us by saying we run a dirty program. Smh

 

[CraigForth]

What's funny about all this is that Duke and Kentucky can recruit against us by saying we run a dirty program. Smh

Hilarious, although I doubt they ever really have to go negative on another team except maybe each other.

 

[rackman18]

Yet they trust a cat like Cal Pal who had violations at what was it UMass and Memphis.

 

[721Comstock]

Yet they trust a cat like Cal Pal who had violations at what was it UMass and Memphis.

And Kentucky. Those just aren't public knowledge - yet.

 

[Francis03]

Francis03 Break it down for me how recruiting works, both across the country, and at Syracuse. You and cuseraised seem to think that "bags" get offered out on a very regular basis to top recruits. I don't doubt that this happens, but given that Duke and UK are our primary competition for this kid, specifically it sounds like you think that UK and/or Duke are regulars in this business (or that they have boosters that do it for them). And given that you think that this lowers our (Syracuse's) chances, it sounds like you don't think that we engage in it ourselves (or don't have boosters that do it). I don't doubt your opinion, I just wonder what experience/knowledge informs your thoughts.

Please don't put words into my mouth. I never said "bags" get offered out to top recruits on a regular basis. On flip side, you're being naive if you don't think that shady stuff occur behind the scenes from time to time. It's public knowledge that a simple google search would help fill you in on about some of the things that would make you say "hold up now." Go check out how Chris Duhon, Carlos Boozer, and Corey Maggette recruitments went down for Duke. The way how UK's 2012 championship team was built is pretty amazing when thinking about it. Louisville hires a handler on their staff to get Marquis Teague, Teague somehow ends up decommitting and goes to UK. Terrence Jones commits to Washington the same day with his best friend Terrence Ross. Ross actually moved back to the pacific northwest from the east, just to play with Jones in college. Hours later Jones talks to Cal and decommits, eventually ending up at UK. SU and Ohio St were considered the favorites for Anthony Davis heading into the summer. All of a sudden UK offers and several weeks later he commits to them. Northwestern was the rumored school to have supposedly drop the dime about Papa Davis or somebody in the Davis camp asking for $$$. Nerlens Noel had a handler who was actually banned from a few places. I haven't even gotten to how WWW is allowed to advise and recruit players to UK when he isn't on the staff. Like I said, this is all public stuff that anybody can read about and become informed about the bullsh!t that goes on at other places that the NCAA turns a blind eye on. Obviously JB has had his past troubles, but I know for sure that we aren't handing out "bags" to handlers or having boosters setup advances for parents and family members. We haven't had a recruit that finished top 10 in the rankings since Donte Greene back in 07. So if we're engaging in those activities, then SU is doing a very poor job with it since a top 10 recruit hasn't taking our "bags" in nearly 10 years.

 

[Deano]

Please don't put words into my mouth. I never said "bags" get offered out to top recruits on a regular basis. On flip side, you're being naive if you don't think that shady stuff occur behind the scenes from time to time. It's public knowledge that a simple google search would help fill you in on about some of the things that would make you say "hold up now." Go check out how Chris Duhon, Carlos Boozer, and Corey Maggette recruitments went down for Duke. The way how UK's 2012 championship team was built is pretty amazing when thinking about it. Louisville hires a handler on their staff to get Marquis Teague, Teague somehow ends up decommitting and goes to UK. Terrence Jones commits to Washington the same day with his best friend Terrence Ross. Ross actually moved back to the pacific northwest from the east, just to play with Jones in college. Hours later Jones talks to Cal and decommits, eventually ending up at UK. SU and Ohio St were considered the favorites for Anthony Davis heading into the summer. All of a sudden UK offers and several weeks later he commits to them. Northwestern was the rumored school to have supposedly drop the dime about Papa Davis or somebody in the Davis camp asking for $$$. Nerlens Noel had a handler who was actually banned from a few places. I haven't even gotten to how WWW is allowed to advise and recruit players to UK when he isn't on the staff. Like I said, this is all public stuff that anybody can read about and become informed about the bullsh!t that goes on at other places that the NCAA turns a blind eye on. Obviously JB has had his past troubles, but I know for sure that we aren't handing out "bags" to handlers or having boosters setup advances for parents and family members. We haven't had a recruit that finished top 10 in the rankings since Donte Greene back in 07. So if we're engaging in those activities, then SU is doing a very poor job with it since a top 10 recruit hasn't taking our "bags" in nearly 10 years.

"POST OF THE WEEK!"

 

[kidorange]

Cuse's old "you can make $75 at the Y" sales pitch just doesn't work the way it used to.

 

[NYCorange]

Please don't put words into my mouth. I never said "bags" get offered out to top recruits on a regular basis. On flip side, you're being naive if you don't think that shady stuff occur behind the scenes from time to time. It's public knowledge that a simple google search would help fill you in on about some of the things that would make you say "hold up now." Go check out how Chris Duhon, Carlos Boozer, and Corey Maggette recruitments went down for Duke. The way how UK's 2012 championship team was built is pretty amazing when thinking about it. Louisville hires a handler on their staff to get Marquis Teague, Teague somehow ends up decommitting and goes to UK. Terrence Jones commits to Washington the same day with his best friend Terrence Ross. Ross actually moved back to the pacific northwest from the east, just to play with Jones in college. Hours later Jones talks to Cal and decommits, eventually ending up at UK. SU and Ohio St were considered the favorites for Anthony Davis heading into the summer. All of a sudden UK offers and several weeks later he commits to them. Northwestern was the rumored school to have supposedly drop the dime about Papa Davis or somebody in the Davis camp asking for $$$. Nerlens Noel had a handler who was actually banned from a few places. I haven't even gotten to how WWW is allowed to advise and recruit players to UK when he isn't on the staff. Like I said, this is all public stuff that anybody can read about and become informed about the bullsh!t that goes on at other places that the NCAA turns a blind eye on. Obviously JB has had his past troubles, but I know for sure that we aren't handing out "bags" to handlers or having boosters setup advances for parents and family members. We haven't had a recruit that finished top 10 in the rankings since Donte Greene back in 07. So if we're engaging in those activities, then SU is doing a very poor job with it since a top 10 recruit hasn't taking our "bags" in nearly 10 years.

Francis03 thanks. This is exactly what I wanted. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth just trying to make sense of what you were implying by referring to cuseraised's post. As someone who keeps an eye on recruiting, but doesn't really know the world, is nice to get a peek from someone more familiar.

So another question then: what role do the coaches play in all this shady stuff? Like is Coach K actively coordinating (just as an example) or does it happen without him knowing? Or would he know but just ignore?

 

[kidorange]

There are degrees of separation for damage control purposes

 

[Francis03]

Francis03 thanks. This is exactly what I wanted. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth just trying to make sense of what you were implying by referring to cuseraised's post. As someone who keeps an eye on recruiting, but doesn't really know the world, is nice to get a peek from someone more familiar.

So another question then: what role do the coaches play in all this shady stuff? Like is Coach K actively coordinating (just as an example) or does it happen without him knowing? Or would he know but just ignore?

All I can say is that if anybody thinks that these kind of stuff goes down without the HC knowing. Well hey we can talk about some bridges out in Brooklyn that I can sell you for a really good price.