Class of 2022 PG Quadir Copeland (PA/IMG) COMMITTED/SIGNED TO SYRACUSE

[Nicknack]

Don't we just keep doing what we're doing? I mean, I'm not sure there is anything more to do.

 

[General20]

Peach Jam is highlighting that JJ is more of a 2 than a lead guard.

So what do you do if you're the SU coaching staff. Would love to land BOTH Cope and JJ -- but concerned about the combo guard dilemma if we throw all of our eggs into the JJ basket.

I agree that JJ is an elite prospect as a 2 and not quite as good as a 1. Considering our roster next year should have both Girard and Symir on it, if the staff thinks JJ is the best available player, I think they should go after him hard and worry about a pure 1 next year if landing him causes the other point guards we are looking at to lose interest in us.

JJ and Kamari are two of the most complete scorers we've ever recruited. Landing them both in the same class would be special.

As much as I like Copeland (which is a lot) he doesn't fit on our roster as well as JJ would because Copeland and Symir really shouldn't be on the court at the same time, somebody would end up unhappy with their minutes.

 

[0.2 YNdeeR]

I agree that JJ is an elite prospect as a 2 and not quite as good as a 1. Considering our roster next year should have both Girard and Symir on it, if the staff thinks JJ is the best available player, I think they should go after him hard and worry about a pure 1 next year if landing him causes the other point guards we are looking at to lose interest in us.

JJ and Kamari are two of the most complete scorers we've ever recruited. Landing them both in the same class would be special.

As much as I like Copeland (which is a lot) he doesn't fit on our roster as well as JJ would because Copeland and Symir really shouldn't be on the court at the same time, somebody would end up unhappy with their minutes.

It's a muddled picture. On the one hand, it seems like Copeland - who projects as a pure PG/distributor - has the length and talent to upgrade the position and really likes us. Since JJ seems to be a slasher/scorer/SG in the Dion mold (per RF's post), Copeland may not view him as an obstacle - more likely it's the other two seniors (to be) at the same position (JG3 and ST). However, as others have posted, Copeland has a much bigger upside than either of the two ahead of him. And even as a frosh he could carve out minutes, depending on how well the seniors are playing and how quickly he adjusts. It's a log jam that might not bother Copeland as much as people think (he gets the keys to the car his soph. year), and a "problem" the staff would love to have.

Filling in the other side of the equation depends on whether Buddy leaves and how JT (and maybe Bunch) fits into the rotation. At 6'6/200 as a HS junior, he'll clearly have enough size to slide over to SF if we land JJ ... creating a deep and offensively explosive lineup with scorers at 1-3 and Lands at the 4. Bunch and JT would trade time on the wing (like Elijah Hughes) opposite Lands (assuming Swider graduates in '21 and Benny jumps). Awesome potential, but also a difficult roster to project with so many uncertainties.

 

[Orangezoo]

Peach Jam is highlighting that JJ is more of a 2 than a lead guard.

So what do you do if you're the SU coaching staff. Would love to land BOTH Cope and JJ -- but concerned about the combo guard dilemma if we throw all of our eggs into the JJ basket.

Yeah I mean I realize that we don't play this way but it just seems it would be great if we throw the best 4 guards/wings on the floor with a Center and have three key reserves to maximize the talent we are recruiting paired with who is already on campus.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I agree that JJ is an elite prospect as a 2 and not quite as good as a 1. Considering our roster next year should have both Girard and Symir on it, if the staff thinks JJ is the best available player, I think they should go after him hard and worry about a pure 1 next year if landing him causes the other point guards we are looking at to lose interest in us.

JJ and Kamari are two of the most complete scorers we've ever recruited. Landing them both in the same class would be special.

As much as I like Copeland (which is a lot) he doesn't fit on our roster as well as JJ would because Copeland and Symir really shouldn't be on the court at the same time, somebody would end up unhappy with their minutes.

Oh man, General I love most of your posts, but... I disagree with this a lot.

Girard regressed as a point guard last season. He looked much better pushing tempo as a freshman. I think the jury is still out how much of a 1 he really is.

I'm optimistic about Torrence, but reality is he's had a very underwhelming first two years of production in college basketball. Now, he's going up a level in competition. At best he's an unknown quantity for now so it's difficult to predict his future, but I don't think it's crazy to think he could be bumped out of playing time if incoming guys are more talented (and I think there's a great chance ours could be depending on how recruiting unfolds).

Short of this all is, I think improving the talent at point guard could be really big for us, especially with Taylor coming in, especially with the possibility of playing Girard off the ball, especially since Lands may also be a great option at the 2. I'm not sure Starling accomplishes improving our talent at the 1.

That said, I wouldn't mind a scenario where there are legitimate battles for PT between multiple high level players. Let's get greedy.

 

[RF2044]

I agree that JJ is an elite prospect as a 2 and not quite as good as a 1. Considering our roster next year should have both Girard and Symir on it, if the staff thinks JJ is the best available player, I think they should go after him hard and worry about a pure 1 next year if landing him causes the other point guards we are looking at to lose interest in us.

JJ and Kamari are two of the most complete scorers we've ever recruited. Landing them both in the same class would be special.

As much as I like Copeland (which is a lot) he doesn't fit on our roster as well as JJ would because Copeland and Symir really shouldn't be on the court at the same time, somebody would end up unhappy with their minutes.

Agreed that JJ is an elite scorer. Reminds me a little of Jamal Murray.

I'm of the mindset that Symir -- while a nice pivot after Kadary transferred -- is a candidate to be recruited over. The problem [and admittedly, this is a first world "problem"] is class size and expectation for immediate PT from the players we're bringing in for class of 2022. And if Symir / Joe rise to the occasion and solidify the lead guard position for the next two years, then that's terrific.

If we can land JJ and Copeland as a prospective starting backcourt, and Cope is willing to bet on himself over Symir / Joe, then that would be amazing. If Copeland gets turned off by JJ plus the guys ahead of him -- well, that sucks, but you take JJ and PG becomes a high priority for the class of 2023.

I'm not really worried about Taylor. I don't see him starting over JJ, if Buddy leaves after this year. But even so, that might only be a one-year delay, and Taylor could still play a lot. If JJ doesn't come here, then presumably Taylor "shifts" to 2 and we take Copeland to play alongside him.

If we land Bunch, I see it similarly. Great future component who might have to wait a year for his turn -- but a guy who could be a big time contributor in our system when he finally gets his chance down the road.

Similarly, I could see Lands playing either forward slot [he wouldn't play 2 over JJ], so he and Taylor could be compatible. Kind of like how we started CJ / Southerland for awhile in 2013. Neither was a PF, but they both could get the job done and compensated with versatility.

Question all comes down to how big of a class. We have two in the fold. Do we add one more guard [along with Taylor], or two? And do we land Bunch even though he'd come in behind in the pecking order [on paper] to Lands / Taylor?

Presumably, we'd only have room for one big in this class.

Again, great "problems" to have.

 

[721Comstock]

Agreed that JJ is an elite scorer. Reminds me a little of Jamal Murray.

I'm of the mindset that Symir -- while a nice pivot after Kadary transferred -- is a candidate to be recruited over. The problem [and admittedly, this is a first world "problem"] is class size and expectation for immediate PT from the players we're bringing in for class of 2022.

If we can land JJ and Copeland as a prospective starting backcourt, and Cope is willing to bet on himself over Symir / Joe, then that would be amazing. If Copeland gets turned off by JJ plus the guys ahead of him -- well, that sucks, but you take JJ and PG becomes a high priority for the class of 2023.

I'm not really worried about Taylor. I don't see him starting over JJ, if Buddy leaves after this year. But even so, that might only be a one-year delay, and Taylor could still play a lot. If JJ doesn't come here, then presumably Taylor "shifts" to 2 and we take Copeland to play alongside him.

If we land Bunch, I see it similarly. Great future component who might have to wait a year for his turn.

Similarly, I could see Lands playing either forward slot [he wouldn't play 2 over JJ], so he and Taylor could be compatible. Kind of like how we started CJ / Southerland for awhile in 2013. Neither was a PF, but they both could get the job done and compensated with versatility.

Question all comes down to how big of a class. We have two in the fold. Do we add one more guard [along with Taylor], or two? And do we land Bunch even though he'd come in behind in the pecking order [on paper] to Lands / Taylor?

Presumably, we'd only have room for one big in this class.

Again, great "problems" to have.

"Room" in a class almost doesn't even matter anymore, here in the post-Portal world.

Seems virtually a given that somebody, or several somebodies, who still may have eligibility left, will depart for - elsewhere.

So -

Worry about how and where they'll fit in later.

 

[RF2044]

"Room" in a class almost doesn't even matter anymore, here in the post-Portal world.

Seems virtually a given that somebody, or several somebodies, who still may have eligibility left, will depart for - elsewhere.

So -

Worry about how and where they'll fit in later.

Oh, I agree.

But I think that the size of the class will be largely predicated upon the perceived opportunity [from the croots' perspective]. Not saying that this is the case, but to use General20's example above, maybe Copeland won't like how things line up on paper at SU if we land JJ, while also returning Joe / Symir.

Then again, maybe it won't be a deterrent. Who knows. But if he wants to come here, I think you take him in a heartbeat -- incumbent players be damned.

 

[Cusesky8214]

Lots of good posts in here...all good problems to have. Just gotta close the deal and start to see the bigger picture with how this class will unfold.

 

[SUOrangeSU]

Honestly could see 1 or both of Symir and JG3 head out after next year

 

[the villager]

I have to believe if we get some of the players mentioned above and if they show “ GAME “ in practice , Seemingly a JB requirement to play, he will expand his rotations accordingly.

 

[Orangezoo]

The toughest part of all this is that it would really help to see what we even have right now post CoVid in terms of Joe and Symir. I get you always gamble getting the talent vs not getting it as long as we recognize the portal is going to be the portal and is always a reality check/reminder that roster turnover is pretty much guaranteed.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Honestly could see 1 or both of Symir and JG3 head out after next year

I'd be surprised about Symir. He's already used his immediate eligibility transfer.

Joe wouldn't really have any reason to go.

 

[Orangezoo]

I'd be surprised about Symir. He's already used his immediate eligibility transfer.

Joe wouldn't really have any reason to go.

Symir I believe has one or two little ones per social media so unless an overseas gig pops up I can't see him jumping. With Joe, if he has a really good year, I don't see him bailing either.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Taylor is not a catch and shoot 2 guard to me. Looks like a SF who can get to the rim and pull up from 15. I think we can live in a world where we sign JJ along with Copeland and Taylor.

 

[General20]

Agreed that JJ is an elite scorer. Reminds me a little of Jamal Murray.

I'm of the mindset that Symir -- while a nice pivot after Kadary transferred -- is a candidate to be recruited over. The problem [and admittedly, this is a first world "problem"] is class size and expectation for immediate PT from the players we're bringing in for class of 2022. And if Symir / Joe rise to the occasion and solidify the lead guard position for the next two years, then that's terrific.

If we can land JJ and Copeland as a prospective starting backcourt, and Cope is willing to bet on himself over Symir / Joe, then that would be amazing. If Copeland gets turned off by JJ plus the guys ahead of him -- well, that sucks, but you take JJ and PG becomes a high priority for the class of 2023.

I'm not really worried about Taylor. I don't see him starting over JJ, if Buddy leaves after this year. But even so, that might only be a one-year delay, and Taylor could still play a lot. If JJ doesn't come here, then presumably Taylor "shifts" to 2 and we take Copeland to play alongside him.

If we land Bunch, I see it similarly. Great future component who might have to wait a year for his turn -- but a guy who could be a big time contributor in our system when he finally gets his chance down the road.

Similarly, I could see Lands playing either forward slot [he wouldn't play 2 over JJ], so he and Taylor could be compatible. Kind of like how we started CJ / Southerland for awhile in 2013. Neither was a PF, but they both could get the job done and compensated with versatility.

Question all comes down to how big of a class. We have two in the fold. Do we add one more guard [along with Taylor], or two? And do we land Bunch even though he'd come in behind in the pecking order [on paper] to Lands / Taylor?

Presumably, we'd only have room for one big in this class.

Again, great "problems" to have.

I agree with all this. I'd just add, I don't think there is any way we say no to either Copeland or Starling. If both want to come, great.

The only real question is, will adding one scare off the other? I don't think any of us know the answer to that. My guess is it might. These are guys who are going to have a lot of good options.

If we land either one of the two we've secured a great class in my opinion, no matter who else we get or don't get.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I agree with all this. I'd just add, I don't think there is any way we say no to either Copeland or Starling. If both want to come, great.

The only real question is, will adding one scare off the other? I don't think any of us know the answer to that. My guess is it might. These are guys who are going to have a lot of good options.

If we land either one of the two we've secured a great class in my opinion, no matter who else we get or don't get.

Right now, this is a position of need and there is a very capable guy who seems ready to pull the trigger. You have to take him. He's "good enough", has huge upside, and fills a position of need. PG is the next spot we have to fill in the roster, IMO.

 

[007]

Joe wouldn't really have any reason to go.

Playing time might be the issue for JG, given the talent we might have available at the guard spots.

Based on nothing, I can't see JB taking both JJ and Copeland, especially with JT presumably targeted for the 2.

My clear preference would be JJ over Copeland. I think JJ has the skill set to play PG from the jump, and can obviously play at the 2.

 

[Jeremy L.]

Eventually people will pick up on this hahaha

My immediate thought is Q is committing and then whatever happens after that happens. If JJ wants to come, great. If not, then it is what it is. Just get decent recruits that can gel well together and put out a solid product on the floor.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Playing time might be the issue for JG, given the talent we might have available at the guard spots.

Based on nothing, I can't see JB taking both JJ and Copeland, especially with JT presumably targeted for the 2.

My clear preference would be JJ over Copeland. I think JJ has the skill set to play PG from the jump, and can obviously play at the 2.

Eh... he's going to be a 3 year starter returning for a 4th year. He'd have to expect 2 incoming freshmen to bump him.

 

[007]

Eh... he's going to be a 3 year starter returning for a 4th year. He'd have to expect 2 incoming freshmen to bump him.

Yup

 

[Sherman20]

Peach Jam is highlighting that JJ is more of a 2 than a lead guard.

So what do you do if you're the SU coaching staff. Would love to land BOTH Cope and JJ -- but concerned about the combo guard dilemma if we throw all of our eggs into the JJ basket.

How is this a problem? It’s two different positions. Copeland will play PG and JJ will play SG.

 

[RF2044]

How is this a problem? It’s two different positions. Copeland will play PG and JJ will play SG.

A problem in the sense that JJ might not be the best facilitator, and his handle is more about creating for himself rather than handling pressure D, etc.

I'll own that this is my opinion ONLY, but I've seen enough of having combos [cough, Frank Howard, cough] play the 1.

Hope there's room for both.

 

[Sherman20]

I agree with all this. I'd just add, I don't think there is any way we say no to either Copeland or Starling. If both want to come, great.

The only real question is, will adding one scare off the other? I don't think any of us know the answer to that. My guess is it might. These are guys who are going to have a lot of good options.

If we land either one of the two we've secured a great class in my opinion, no matter who else we get or don't get.

A problem in the sense that JJ might not be the best facilitator, and his handle is more about creating for himself rather than handling pressure D, etc.

I'll own that this is my opinion ONLY, but I've seen enough of having combos [cough, Frank Howard, cough] play the 1.

Hope there's room for both.

I don’t think JJ would be scared off or even concerned about the presence of Taylor, Joe, Symir or anyone else. Same with Copeland. A lot of these top rated kids aren’t worried about competition. Look at UK this off-season. They signed two top 20 transfer guards in Sahvir Wheeler (PG) and Kellan Grady (SG), both high level scorers at their previous schools (Wheeler is also an elite PG/distributor), then went out and added a top 15 freshman PG in TyTy Washington and another SG in CJ Fredrick from Iowa (who’s an elite 3 pt shooter). All four of them are guards, and none of them seem concerned about each other in competing for playing time, even though there’s only 80 mpg available in the backcourt. Also, all those guys are higher rated than any of our recruits or transfers. We should be able to take JJ, Copeland and Taylor and not even bat an eye.

 

[RF2044]

I don’t think JJ would be scared off or even concerned about the presence of Taylor, Joe, Symir or anyone else. Same with Copeland. A lot of these top rated kids aren’t worried about competition. Look at UK this off-season. They signed two top 20 transfer guards in Sahvir Wheeler (PG) and Kellan Grady (SG), both high level scorers at their previous schools (Wheeler is also an elite PG/distributor), then went out and added a top 15 freshman PG in TyTy Washington and another SG in CJ Fredrick from Iowa (who’s an elite 3 pt shooter). All four of them are guards, and none of them seem concerned about each other in competing for playing time, even though there’s only 80 mpg available in the backcourt. Also, all those guys are higher rated than any of our recruits or transfers. We should be able to take JJ, Copeland and Taylor and not even bat an eye.

Again, there's a difference between them being a "take" for us and them wanting to come here.

A lot of these guys want to play right away. Having a crowded position group ahead of them might be a deterrent. UK isn't an apples to apples comparison, because they recruit elite guys who all expect to be one-and-dones. None of them conceive of the possibility that they might fail, because they are elite and have been smashing successes getting to UK. That many of them fall to the wayside and fail to achieve that is irrelevant, because the next group of blue chip prospects are lining up to play there the following class.

I don't think that anybody thinks it's one or the other in terms of SU -- I'm sure all fans would love to add both JJ and Copeland. The question is: do they [and specifically Copeland] see it that way.

PS -- think of how incredible a class of JJ, Cope, Tayor, Lands, and a big / Bunch would be! Top 10 class -- it would position us for success for years to come.