Class of 2019 PG Symir Torrence (NY/Vermont Academy) Transferring from Marquette

[Bball44]

Since he still has 3 years of eligibility left, maybe he wouldn't mind limited minutes next year and have much bigger role after Ricmond leaves.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Didn’t exactly light the world on fire at Marquette. Wonder if he ends up at at Mid Major.

 

[50YRsofCuse]

We talked about him two years ago but were pursuing JGIII and had landed Goodine at the time. Plus had JCarey as the projected starter. We would have been happy if we were able to somehow land him. However, there was no room on the team. Fast forward two years, Goodine, Chaney, Washington are all gone and what was a plethora of guards, we are short handed at the position. Boeheim did like him . Don’t think he will want to come here to sit on the bench.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Local guys sitting is not a good thing and fourth guards don’t play. He should move on. If another guard is leaving thats a different story. People need to stop the Joe should leave crap. We won’t find a better three guards than the three we have now. The staff said in the preseason that Joe was the best player on the floor. It was reasonable to think he would continue to start. We’ve had better guards than Kadary who didn’t start as freshman and came off the bench when we thought they were better than the ones starting.

 

[sutomcat]

We talked about him two years ago but were pursuing JGIII and had landed Goodine at the time. Plus had JCarey as the projected starter. We would have been happy if we were able to somehow land him. However, there was no room on the team. Fast forward two years, Goodine, Chaney, Washington are all gone and what was a plethora of guards, we are short handed at the position. Boeheim did like him . Don’t think he will want to come here to sit on the bench.

If he has to sit out a year, I could see him thinking seriously about Syracuse.

Anyone who grows up in CNY is going to dream about playing in the Dome.

And after playing so far from home, he might want to play somewhere where his friends and family could see him play in person all the time.

His style of play would fit in well with Syracuse. With Buddy and Kadary possibly leaving after next season, there could be a ton of playing time available.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

If he has to sit out a year, I could see him thinking seriously about Syracuse.

Anyone who grows up in CNY is going to dream about playing in the Dome.

And after playing so far from home, he might want to play somewhere where his friends and family could see him play in person all the time.

His style of play would fit in well with Syracuse. With Buddy and Kadary possibly leaving after next season, there could be a ton of playing time available.

Plus JAB might want him to maintain a CNY pipeline. Keep the locals happy.

 

[Cuseball]

If he has to sit out a year, I could see him thinking seriously about Syracuse.

Anyone who grows up in CNY is going to dream about playing in the Dome.

And after playing so far from home, he might want to play somewhere where his friends and family could see him play in person all the time.

His style of play would fit in well with Syracuse. With Buddy and Kadary possibly leaving after next season, there could be a ton of playing time available.

Agree it might be his dream and I would be all for it assuming he came and accepted a limited bench role. He’s a limited player. Averaged 1 pt and then 2 Points over his first two years . Shot 13% from 3 and 31% overall. Only played 13 minutes a game but there are better options available on the transfer market if we want to go in that direction.

Cuse!

 

[Tony DeFranco]

Local guys sitting is not a good thing and fourth guards don’t play. He should move on. If another guard is leaving thats a different story. People need to stop the Joe should leave crap. We won’t find a better three guards than the three we have now. The staff said in the preseason that Joe was the best player on the floor. It was reasonable to think he would continue to start. We’ve had better guards than Kadary who didn’t start as freshman and came off the bench when we thought they were better than the ones starting.

Yep, but sitting behind Jardine (who was a great college player) is acceptable - sitting behind Girard is unacceptable

 

[sutomcat]

Agree it might be his dream and I would be all for it assuming he came and accepted a limited bench role. He’s a limited player. Averaged 1 pt and then 2 Points over his first two years . Shot 13% from 3 and 31% overall. Only played 13 minutes a game but there are better options available on the transfer market if we want to go in that direction.

Cuse!

I think he is better than he has shown to date but agree, if he comes here, he will have to accept being a role player. No guarantee he will ever be a starter.

If he is good with that, great. We need to get to a point where we have a well balanced roster, where having one injured player can leave us with no viable backups at a position. That is unacceptable and we need to take steps to address it.

 

[Janner]

Kadary is a better player - he's been a better player all year - he is going places with basketball - Joe is not - Kadary needs to start and play 30 mins - Joe needs to sub for Buddy and Kadary - next year is Kadary's last year in college - he needs to know for a fact that he is gonna play 30 mins at Cuse and he deserves that

I completely agree with all of that, but Kadary was pretty much getting that prior to his injury. In the 4 games before his injury his minutes were 31, 26, 29, 25. It was trending in that direction once JB realized his worth. With tendinitis i question if playing him 35+ min a game, as i imagine he wants, is whats best for his long-term health, but im no Dr so ill defer to those who know better

 

[ORRange]

Local guys sitting is not a good thing and fourth guards don’t play. He should move on. If another guard is leaving thats a different story. People need to stop the Joe should leave crap. We won’t find a better three guards than the three we have now. The staff said in the preseason that Joe was the best player on the floor. It was reasonable to think he would continue to start. We’ve had better guards than Kadary who didn’t start as freshman and came off the bench when we thought they were better than the ones starting.

"People need to stop the Joe should leave crap". Where has anyone said that? Nobody wants Joe to leave, crazy talk.
"The staff said in the preseason that Joe was the best player on the floor". Link? There is no way that was ever said. Crazier talk. Listen, many of us feel Kadary wasn't given the minutes this year that he deserved and he probably feels the same way. Let's all hope we don't pay the price for it. LOL "the staff".

 

[hoopsupstate]

Keep it up and you might lose them both. Try that on for size!

 

[RF2044]

Keep it up and you might lose them both. Try that on for size!

Players who elect to play for a high major program need to understand that the coaching staff they sign up to play for are going to attempt to recruit over them every single year. It's up to them to earn PT as their careers unfold.

If they don't like that, or don't like their prospects for PT as new players come in, then they have options to transfer out.

We saw an example of that this year. Kadary is a better lead guard than Joe, he's better defensively than Joe, and he's a better rebounder than Joe. Doesn't mean that Joe isn't valuable, and can't be a significant contributor. But if the thought process is that we can't recruit another guard when we only have three on the roster because we don't want to upset the apple cart -- agree to disagree. If player psyches are too fragile to handle competition, then they don't belong at a high major program.

 

[Orangezoo]

Players who elect to play for a high major program need to understand that the coaching staff they sign up to play for are going to attempt to recruit over them every single year. It's up to them to earn PT as their careers unfold.

If they don't like that, or don't like their prospects for PT as new players come in, then they have options to transfer out.

We saw an example of that this year. Kadary is a better lead guard than Joe, he's better defensively than Joe, and he's a better rebounder than Joe. Doesn't mean that Joe isn't valuable, and can't be a significant contributor. But if the thought process is that we can't recruit another guard when we only have three on the roster because we don't want to upset the apple cart -- agree to disagree. If player psyches are too fragile to handle competition, then they don't belong at a high major program.

And Joe could have a senior year still to be the guy again and say we have Copeland coming in to be next up. Joe hasn't added the pieces to his game like Gerry did. Additionally, we have the guys we need shooting the 3ball in place.

As for ST- what is this kid's ceiling? Is he a good defender who can develop a shot? Good driver?

 

[orangefog]

Players who elect to play for a high major program need to understand that the coaching staff they sign up to play for are going to attempt to recruit over them every single year. It's up to them to earn PT as their careers unfold.

If they don't like that, or don't like their prospects for PT as new players come in, then they have options to transfer out.

We saw an example of that this year. Kadary is a better lead guard than Joe, he's better defensively than Joe, and he's a better rebounder than Joe. Doesn't mean that Joe isn't valuable, and can't be a significant contributor. But if the thought process is that we can't recruit another guard when we only have three on the roster because we don't want to upset the apple cart -- agree to disagree. If player psyches are too fragile to handle competition, then they don't belong at a high major program.

Talent accumulation and competition.

 

[jdubs30]

Players who elect to play for a high major program need to understand that the coaching staff they sign up to play for are going to attempt to recruit over them every single year. It's up to them to earn PT as their careers unfold.

If they don't like that, or don't like their prospects for PT as new players come in, then they have options to transfer out.

We saw an example of that this year. Kadary is a better lead guard than Joe, he's better defensively than Joe, and he's a better rebounder than Joe. Doesn't mean that Joe isn't valuable, and can't be a significant contributor. But if the thought process is that we can't recruit another guard when we only have three on the roster because we don't want to upset the apple cart -- agree to disagree. If player psyches are too fragile to handle competition, then they don't belong at a high major program.

I agree with everything you said. But what makes us different than say FSU or UNC, is JB strictly plays 7.5 guys.

which is great if you’re a starter. But Kadary got his chance when Buddy got Covid/Joe was bad ... Bras recently got his Chance because of how bad AG was.. and Edwards got his chance when Marek was in foul trouble and JBA was too small for UNC. Woody has completely disappeared. But essentially none of those guys were in the rotation until JBs hand was forced

if JB had 10 guys he thought could play, maybe he’d play all 10. But recent history shows he’ll play MAYBE 7 guys unless his hand his forced to play.

Would Woody play at least 10mpg at other places in the ACC right now? Or better yet, would Woody be willing to stay if he were getting 10mpg here?? Who knows.

We’ve all the heard the rumblings that kids know how PT works here.

And while I 100% agree I don’t want kid who are scared to compete - they have to at least think it’s a fair competition

 

[RF2044]

I agree with everything you said. But what makes us different than say FSU or UNC, is JB strictly plays 7.5 guys.

which is great if you’re a starter. But Kadary got his chance when Buddy got Covid/Joe was bad ... Bras recently got his Chance because of how bad AG was.. and Edwards got his chance when Marek was in foul trouble and JBA was too small for UNC. Woody has completely disappeared. But essentially none of those guys were in the rotation until JBs hand was forced

if JB had 10 guys he thought could play, maybe he’d play all 10. But recent history shows he’ll play MAYBE 7 guys unless his hand his forced to play.

Would Woody play at least 10mpg at other places in the ACC right now? Or better yet, would Woody be willing to stay if he were getting 10mpg here?? Who knows.

We’ve all the heard the rumblings that kids know how PT works here.

And while I 100% agree I don’t want kid who are scared to compete - they have to at least think it’s a fair competition

JB is going to do what JB wants -- no argument there.

But in 2012, he played 9 -- because he trusted the players he had on the bench. Dion. CJ. Keita. Southerland. And those players had established players for the most part playing ahead of them [Scoop, Triche, Kris, etc]. So it isn't unprecedented that he'll play more, and go with whatever players are performing better on any given night, due to situational matchups.

I desperately want Woody to stay. At minimum, I view him as a two year starter, and a high caliber one. I also want to point out that we don't know what is going to happen with roster attrition; a guy like Guerrier [at age 22] could opt to earn a professional paycheck, and then a starting role opens up. Or maybe Guerrier returns for another year, and Woody has to compete for a spot in the rotation in his second year [which he is clearly good enough to earn]. It's up to him to determine whether he WANTS to compete, whether he thinks he can earn more PT next year by elevating his game, etc. If he doesn't think that he can beat out Braswell, then...

And for the record, practices that year were INTENSE. No doubt in my mind, it's part of what made that team so great.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Symir reclassified to get to Marquette early at Marquette’s request. With Covid now at least he can regain that year he left too soon. Marquette has had a big transfer issue well before Torrence and sadly was part of the reason they asked him to reclassify. Tough for the kid.

All That Glitters Isn’t Golden: Marquette’s Transfer Problem

The Hauser brothers sent shockwaves with their transfer announcement, becoming part of a recent trend of departures over the last few years.

www.bigeastcoastbias.com

 

[Orangezoo]

Symir reclassified to get to Marquette early at Marquette’s request. With Covid now at least he can regain that year he left too soon. Marquette has had a big transfer issue well before Torrence and sadly was part of the reason they asked him to reclassify. Tough for the kid.

All That Glitters Isn’t Golden: Marquette’s Transfer Problem

The Hauser brothers sent shockwaves with their transfer announcement, becoming part of a recent trend of departures over the last few years.

www.bigeastcoastbias.com

I would have much preferred the Hauser's not do that to Marquette as well..

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Agree 100%. Kadary was the answer to our prayers at lead guard. Whatever torch we had for ST two years ago is diminished now, having a true lead guard in the fold.

Would prefer to see a combo-type of guard, or a legit PG we can learn the ropes for a year, before taking over down the road. Griffin is more than capable of filling in at the 2 next year, should he return.

Wasn't implying anything specific about Joe. Would love to see him return and finish out his career in Orange. I believe that he could be a terrific player for our program, if utilized a little differently. Envision: the 2004 season, when GMac was allowed to play off the ball with Edelin running the "point." Ultimately, it didn't matter who the defensive rebound was outletted to -- they could both push the ball / pass. My opinion only, but I think Girard's shooting percentages and efficiency would skyrocket if some of the primary ball handling / playmaking responsibilities were lifted from his shoulders. It would be similar to 2004, when GMac could just work to get open and let somebody else run the point in half court offensive sets.

I have long thought the same. Run him off of screens relentlessly. I think, to an extent, JB has pigeon holed him as a PG due to his height.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Yep, but sitting behind Jardine (who was a great college player) is acceptable - sitting behind Girard is unacceptable

I think the jury is out. Freshman Joe had a great year. he has not progressed, and it could be said that he has regressed this year. His confidence (from the comfort of my living room) seems shot. Watch that ND game last year, and the Youtube when he was in NYC playing at Dickman park or last year vs ND Joseph Girard III Syracuse vs Notre Dame - Highlights | 1.4.20 | 20 Pts, JG3 goes Jimmer-MODE!
Kid was brash, cocky, arrogant, confident, whatever you want to say. He knew he was good and knew his next shot was all net. Joe Girard III: NY's Scoring Leader Pulls Up to Dyckman | SLAM Day in the Life
This year, he looks like he is just hoping it will go in. He hasn't taken all the FT he could. That says something
I think the kid comes back a stone cold on the court killer. We will see.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Like John Wildhack said in his interview, players do not want to sit and wait their turn. With the new transfer rule, players will not stay. Teams will not have experience coming off the bench. It’s going to be the new normal. It’s going to be hard to recruit top 100 kids and not play them. Most of them are not instant impact players and if the don’t instantly play a major role they will look elsewhere. Top ten talent impact teams. Unfortunately, SU isn’t getting top ten players. I don’t envy coaches. It’s going to be hard to know what you’re going to have from one year to the next. I doubt we have anyone on our current roster who will settle for only ten minutes a game playing time next year. I think you can figure out who might leave.

 

[Cuseball]

Like John Wildhack said in his interview, players do not want to sit and wait their turn. With the new transfer rule, players will not stay. Teams will not have experience coming off the bench. It’s going to be the new normal. It’s going to be hard to recruit top 100 kids and not play them. Most of them are not instant impact players and if the don’t instantly play a major role they will look elsewhere. Top ten talent impact teams. Unfortunately, SU isn’t getting top ten players. I don’t envy coaches. It’s going to be hard to know what you’re going to have from one year to the next. I doubt we have anyone on our current roster who will settle for only ten minutes a game playing time next year. I think you can figure out who might leave.

agreed and this will impact everyone. There will be a massive transfer market upcoming season where bench players are looking for a better fit to play more.

• That likely means a step down in level for most of those " frustrated players"
• balanced by the continued transferring up of stars from mid major or lower teams

Your depth is going to have to be supplemented by non top 100 high schoolers willing to be patient and able to contribute or those mid major players that want a chance to contribute (even minimally) on a big time team.

Everyone's favorite example of a team that plays a deep bench, FSU, has "only" 9 players that average over 10 minutes. That means the other 4 scholarship guys are not happy either.

Cuse!

 

[baggerbob]

Agree 100%. Kadary was the answer to our prayers at lead guard. Whatever torch we had for ST two years ago is diminished now, having a true lead guard in the fold.

Would prefer to see a combo-type of guard, or a legit PG we can learn the ropes for a year, before taking over down the road. Griffin is more than capable of filling in at the 2 next year, should he return.

Wasn't implying anything specific about Joe. Would love to see him return and finish out his career in Orange. I believe that he could be a terrific player for our program, if utilized a little differently. Envision: the 2004 season, when GMac was allowed to play off the ball with Edelin running the "point." Ultimately, it didn't matter who the defensive rebound was outletted to -- they could both push the ball / pass. My opinion only, but I think Girard's shooting percentages and efficiency would skyrocket if some of the primary ball handling / playmaking responsibilities were lifted from his shoulders. It would be similar to 2004, when GMac could just work to get open and let somebody else run the point in half court offensive sets.

And when they paid too much attention to Gmac or Melo, Billy would take his guard into the lane and score.

 

[RF2044]

Like John Wildhack said in his interview, players do not want to sit and wait their turn. With the new transfer rule, players will not stay. Teams will not have experience coming off the bench. It’s going to be the new normal. It’s going to be hard to recruit top 100 kids and not play them. Most of them are not instant impact players and if the don’t instantly play a major role they will look elsewhere. Top ten talent impact teams. Unfortunately, SU isn’t getting top ten players. I don’t envy coaches. It’s going to be hard to know what you’re going to have from one year to the next. I doubt we have anyone on our current roster who will settle for only ten minutes a game playing time next year. I think you can figure out who might leave.

The new transfer rule is likely to be a one-time exemption for this year, not a go-forward free pass.