Class of 2016 PG Tyus Battle (NJ) Signed LOI

[Digger]

He shot terribly from the outside only to go off to the NBA and shoot the lights out from a longer distance line.

Huh?

 

[two3zone]

Point I'm making is that maybe with the lone exception of Wes, each of those players left before developing into a complete player. MCW was great in that IU game, but really had a very up and down season as a sophomore. He shot terribly from the outside only to go off to the NBA and shoot the lights out from a longer distance line.

McCoullough is just the latest example. I wish him nothing but success, but what did he really do for the program (apart from help recruiting by us being able to say we get kids drafted)?

Mcw lead us to a final 4, Dion was a main piece on a team that could have won it all, Wes was on one of the best Cuse teams ever. These guys are needed for success, not saying the others aren't but there seems to be an obvious correlation between winning and having one and done type players.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Point I'm making is that maybe with the lone exception of Wes, each of those players left before developing into a complete player. MCW was great in that IU game, but really had a very up and down season as a sophomore. He shot terribly from the outside only to go off to the NBA and shoot the lights out from a longer distance line.

McCoullough is just the latest example. I wish him nothing but success, but what did he really do for the program (apart from help recruiting by us being able to say we get kids drafted)?

MCW was 24% from three this past season.

 

[CuseNYC97]

MCW was 24% from three this past season.

I know. His rookie year, he shot nearly 40% the first two months. After that, he settled back to what he was.

As for him taking us to a final four, I disagree. Aside from the IU game his assist/point totals for the NCAA tournament were: 9/4, 3/12, 5/12, 2/2. I don't see those numbers carrying a team to a final 4 (from a point guard).

I'm not shitting on MCW or Waiters. They both had very solid sophomore years (MCW avg 7 assists, 12 points, Waiters avg. 2 assists, 13 points). GMac's sophomore season, he avg'd (4 assists and 17points). My point is simply that "the most talented" player isn't always the most productive player. Especially when he leaves for the NBA before he fully develops.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I want to preface this post by saying that although it's my first, I've been on the board for years and some of you might remember me from the Orangecuse board "CuseOrangeNYC".

Anyway, I don't want to have my first post be a controversial one, but does anyone else think we'd be better off with Huerter than Battle?

I know the immediate reaction will be to dismiss this as lunacy, because obviously Battle is a higher ranked prospect, destined for NBA greatness. Huerter on the other hand would have to defy the odds immeasurably to even get drafted...but hear me out,

We've watched Johnny Flynn, Dion Waiters, MCW, and Wes Johnson leave as lottery picks and while it's clear they've all been far more talented, none did nearly as much for our program as GMac did. The short, slow, Irish kid who stayed for four years and carried us on his back. I know we don't win in 2003 without Melo, but we also don't even get by Ok. state in round 2 without GMac.

I think that unless you're getting 4+ McDAA's/year a la UK or Duke, a championship team needs to have a mix of young lottery picks and seasoned, heady veterans. I also believe that having those veterans in the backcourt is the most advantageous model.

I love What Battle brings (particularly on the defensive side of the ball with that length up top), but I really don't know that one or two years of Battle is better than four of Huerter.

...of course Huerter can always go 17 and we can get both. That wouldn't suck!

Also, look how "well" we did when Gerry was our best player.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I know. His rookie year, he shot nearly 40% the first two months. After that, he settled back to what he was.

As for him taking us to a final four, I disagree. Aside from the IU game his assist/point totals for the NCAA tournament were: 9/4, 3/12, 5/12, 2/2. I don't see those numbers carrying a team to a final 4 (from a point guard).

I'm not shitting on MCW or Waiters. They both had very solid sophomore years (MCW avg 11 assists, 12 points, Waiters avg. 2 assists, 13 points). GMac's sophomore season, he avg'd (4 assists and 17points). My point is simply that "the most talented" player isn't always the most productive player. Especially when he leaves for the NBA before he fully develops.

I don't think you

I know. His rookie year, he shot nearly 40% the first two months. After that, he settled back to what he was.

As for him taking us to a final four, I disagree. Aside from the IU game his assist/point totals for the NCAA tournament were: 9/4, 3/12, 5/12, 2/2. I don't see those numbers carrying a team to a final 4 (from a point guard).

I'm not shitting on MCW or Waiters. They both had very solid sophomore years (MCW avg 11 assists, 12 points, Waiters avg. 2 assists, 13 points). GMac's sophomore season, he avg'd (4 assists and 17points). My point is simply that "the most talented" player isn't always the most productive player. Especially when he leaves for the NBA before he fully develops.

You can't discard the Indiana game just because it doesn't fit your narrative.

 

[pfister1]

As for him taking us to a final four, I disagree. Aside from the IU game his assist/point totals for the NCAA tournament were: 9/4, 3/12, 5/12, 2/2. I don't see those numbers carrying a team to a final 4 (from a point guard).

That teams run to the final four was built on defense and MCW was as much if not more responsible for that than anyone else on that team. We also were not a potent offense, so the numbers are naturally going to be on the lower side. You can't look just at the offensive numbers.

 

[jordoo]

I want to preface this post by saying that although it's my first, I've been on the board for years and some of you might remember me from the Orangecuse board "CuseOrangeNYC".

Anyway, I don't want to have my first post be a controversial one, but does anyone else think we'd be better off with Huerter than Battle?

I know the immediate reaction will be to dismiss this as lunacy, because obviously Battle is a higher ranked prospect, destined for NBA greatness. Huerter on the other hand would have to defy the odds immeasurably to even get drafted...but hear me out,

We've watched Johnny Flynn, Dion Waiters, MCW, and Wes Johnson leave as lottery picks and while it's clear they've all been far more talented, none did nearly as much for our program as GMac did. The short, slow, Irish kid who stayed for four years and carried us on his back. I know we don't win in 2003 without Melo, but we also don't even get by Ok. state in round 2 without GMac.

I think that unless you're getting 4+ McDAA's/year a la UK or Duke, a championship team needs to have a mix of young lottery picks and seasoned, heady veterans. I also believe that having those veterans in the backcourt is the most advantageous model.

I love What Battle brings (particularly on the defensive side of the ball with that length up top), but I really don't know that one or two years of Battle is better than four of Huerter.

...of course Huerter can always go 17 and we can get both. That wouldn't suck!

I understand your point and certainly there have been examples of 3/4 year guys who have done more for the program than some of the 1 and done guys. That being said I think you need a mixture of both unless like you said you are able to bring in 3+ 5 star studs year in and year out.

That leads to the question's, do we have a stud offensive player coming in this year? Who is our stud offensive player coming in next year? This seasons team is basically 5 upperclassman a soph and our group of frosh. I expect the offense mainly orbits around G, Trev and DC2 even though I think our freshman class has a lot of potential. I just don't see any of them being that stud offensive player right out of the gate on offense. Malachi would be the most likely but he isn't a PG and we have G and Trev. I see this class as basically 4 guys that are all 3/4 year really good program guys with some potential to blow up and leave after soph seasons. To me they are the core that you add the stud guys to and have great success. In the 16/17 season its likely them Chukwu, Moyer and whomever else we bring in. Sure TylerR may still be here and that would be great but I don't see him as a transcendent offensive player even if he's getting around 15 a game as a senior. Could TylerL or Mal be that type of player in year 2? Its possible but if I'm the staff I'm not willing to count on it and I'm not sure that anyone coming back on next years squad has a diverse enough offensive game to consistently create shots for themselves or others when needed. Moyer is coming in and could be that type of player by then depending on how he develops over the next 16 months. Battle is a very skilled offensive player who with his size and handle can basically always get his own shot. Its possible we will have someone else who can do this on the 16/17 team but I don't think we can be sure we will. At this point I'd take Battle over Huerter in 16 and then worry about 17 when we get there. The college game is evolving very slowly but if you look at the very top teams you see multiple shooters and multiple playmakers with at most 1 offensive liability but general none. Even UK last season was bitten by not having enough offensive options or not developing the right ones during the course of the season. ND should have beaten them in the Elite8 but stopped attacking the basket when they were in the bonus. ND had scorers and shooters thats the direction its going and I think the NC's over the next 10 years will bare that out much like Duke did last season.

Edit: Just to add I really like Huerter's game and he's exactly the type of player you want moving forward as they change the rules to free up the offense. I'm just betting on Battle being able to be an impact player from day one where I think Huerter is a complimentary player until he gets stronger and then a star. I wish there was some way to get both players or Huerter decides he'd rather prep and go to SU in 17 than go to Mich, ND, UVA in 16 and redshirt.

 

[CuseNYC97]

Agr

Also, look how "well" we did when Gerry was our best player.

agree 100%. like I said in the original message, we need a mix of lottery guys and solid 4-year guys. ...and I personally value the 4-year guys more at the guard spots.

 

[Brooky03]

Or two and done in their case.

That was my point. Even though Huerter's looked at as the long-term player, who's to say he couldn't blow up and go pro after 2 seasons. His chances aren't as high as Flynn or Waiters', but they're not that far off with the way he's been climbing the rankings. He could also end up being a chump. Nothing is certain, but Battle is about as close to certain as you can get, which makes him the smarter move, IMO.

 

[jordoo]

Agr

agree 100%. like I said in the original message, we need a mix of lottery guys and solid 4-year guys. ...and I personally value the 4-year guys more at the guard spots.

A mix is our blue print for success, for sure. You have to have multiple guys who are playmakers with the ball in their hands and IMO that is what we have lacked for a while. Two years ago we only had Ennis while everyone else was basically iso or catch and shoot but not real threats to take the ball and penetrate the defense and then make the best play. Last season we only had G doing that and he was just learning that role. I expect him to be better at it this year but we need another guy on the court with him that is also going to be able to do that. This is where Joseph or Howard can really help our team if they are able to.

 

[Brooky03]

Point I'm making is that maybe with the lone exception of Wes, each of those players left before developing into a complete player. MCW was great in that IU game, but really had a very up and down season as a sophomore. He shot terribly from the outside only to go off to the NBA and shoot the lights out from a longer distance line.

McCoullough is just the latest example. I wish him nothing but success, but what did he really do for the program (apart from help recruiting by us being able to say we get kids drafted)?

Dion and Flynn were complete players before they left. Flynn was an excellent floor general and a good defender in the zone given his size disadvantage. Waiters was an excellent zone defender and the best scoring punch on the team as a sophomore. They probably could have improved, but that's true of every player who leaves early. MCW was a great distributor and the best defender at the top of the zone I've seen. He couldn't shoot well, but I'll sign up in a hurry for an MCW clone.

McCullough's the example of a One-and-Done gone wrong. Donte Greene would be another one in this boat, to a lesser extent because he actually played a full season. Not every top flight recruit is going to be productive right away. On the flip side, I would assume a middle-of-the-road recruit being a key contributor for 3-4 years is more rare.

 

[pearl31]

ugh. and there goes the thread again

 

[Moontan]

Tyus Watch: Day Nineteen

Time to get the discussion back on topic in preparation for the Big Day.

 

[FrancoPizza]

If he isn't announcing until after the appeal, I guess that begs the question... when should we hear something on the appeal?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

If he isn't announcing until after the appeal, I guess that begs the question... when should we hear something on the appeal?

http://syracusefan.com/threads/appeal-update.91575/

 

[tee1222]

Agr

agree 100%. like I said in the original message, we need a mix of lottery guys and solid 4-year guys. ...and I personally value the 4-year guys more at the guard spots.

Jesus liked this post, so pa pow!

 

[jgeorge322]

If he isn't announcing until after the appeal, I guess that begs the question... when should we hear something on the appeal?

Just know that him committing and the actual announcement are two separate things.

 

[jordoo]

Just know that him committing and the actual announcement are two separate things.

 

[iommi]

Just know that him committing and the actual announcement are two separate things.

What's the deal with your post above asking if Battle had just committed?

 

[CuseNYC97]

I don't think you


You can't discard the Indiana game just because it doesn't fit your narrative.

I'm not disregarding it. It's 20% of the games he played in that NCAA tourney. I'm giving it exactly the same focus as his 2pt/2ast performance against Michigan in the Final 4. I never even mentioned that.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I'm not disregarding it. It's 20% of the games he played in that NCAA tourney. I'm giving it exactly the same focus as his 2pt/2ast performance against Michigan in the Final 4. I never even mentioned that.

As for him taking us to a final four, I disagree. Aside from the IU game his assist/point totals for the NCAA tournament were: 9/4, 3/12, 5/12, 2/2. I don't see those numbers carrying a team to a final 4 (from a point guard).

If you're leaving out his game vs IU, but including his game vs Michigan, how are you giving them the "exact same focus?"

 

[CuseNYC97]

If you're leaving out his game vs IU, but including his game vs Michigan, how are you giving them the "exact same focus?"

I give! Each was one game and could therefor be thrown out. He played below his own averaged for 80% of the Tourney yet "carried us to the final 4".

 

[pearl31]

Tyus. Battle.
Not MCW. Not recruiting strategies of 5 years ago. Not what you had for lunch yesterday or your favorite barbershop.

 

[RoatanCuse]

Mr. Battle: " Son, you made a hasty decision the first time, which you now regret. Let me encourage you to show some patience going forward. Why not wait until all the cards are on the table first, before pulling the trigger this time. We don't want to make the same mistake twice. This is how a man, not a boy, handles things". Love, Dad

Pure conjecture on my part. But hey, why not? Parents mentor kids every day.