Class of 2016 - PG Tyus Battle (NJ) Signed LOI | Page 54 | Syracusefan.com

Class of 2016 PG Tyus Battle (NJ) Signed LOI

Here is my thing people are talking like Battle was ours to lose. We have built relationships for three years with the kid. If he was a lock he would have committed a long time ago. For Battle its clear something didn't feel right about him coming to Syracuse. Had nothing to do with the penalties. We have been on the kid way before those were handed it. Is it the loss of ships? Can't be there is one here for him if he wanted. We have a top class coming in this year and another top 50 (AT WORST) player already signed up for next year. So if he was really "OURS" to lose he would have committed a long time ago.

It is clear that he didn't feel that he fitted in a Syracuse or was never really comfortable here or like I said he would have committed a long time ago. The penalties are just and excuse to not come here when he didn't really want to come here in the first place. I blame the staff for misjudging his interest level. If he can take one visit to another school and basically commit on the spot then they needed to realize he wasn't that interested and move on sooner. Maybe that is why we saw a rush of PG offers going out a couple weeks ago.

This is a well thought out post, but you make a ton of unsubstantiated assumptions. "had nothing to do with the penalties." How do you know?

Our coaches believed he was coming here. So either they egregiously misjudged our chances or are losing their touch and made a bad call by going all in on one prospect instead of hedging. But they were 100% convinced he was "ours to lose."
 
Not to be an a-hole. But you had me to the end.

Maybe they did realize a month or so ago. When we started offering guards. IN any event, what if they read it wrong and offered a kid last year a spot and he took it. Like Jamal Murray for instance. Battle could then say well they didn't wait for me I was def. going to commit. Bottom line. Its a chance you take with recruiting. Good news is we offered 2-3 other top 50 guards in the last month and one has us in the top 5


It has been 3 year courtship. There is only so long you can continue to wait. It has been 3 years relationship and he still has never taken an "official" visit to Syracuse. He set up other schools official visits before he set one up for us. How long do you wait for something like that with only 1 spot to fill in the class. It all screams someone who really didn't want to come here.
 
This is a well thought out post, but you make a ton of unsubstantiated assumptions. "had nothing to do with the penalties." How do you know?

Our coaches believed he was coming here. So either they egregiously misjudged our chances or are losing their touch and made a bad call by going all in on one prospect instead of hedging. But they were 100% convinced he was "ours to lose."

What possible reason would the penalties cause him not to come here for his 1 year? We currently have a top 10 recruiting class incoming. And another top player signed up for 2016. So we are offering him great talent to play with as a freshman. We offer him a great chance to win or at least compete for a title his only season in college. No post season ban his freshman season. What penalty would have logically caused him to say NO?
 
It has been 3 year courtship. There is only so long you can continue to wait. It has been 3 years relationship and he still has never taken an "official" visit to Syracuse. He set up other schools official visits before he set one up for us. How long do you wait for something like that with only 1 spot to fill in the class. It all screams someone who really didn't want to come here.

Agreed. So why were our coaches so off-target with their evaluation?

Re: how long you wait--if you believe you are going to land a player of Battle's caliber [and I differ from some in the opinion that Battle unequivocablly IS a surefire transcendent talent who would be a game changer for our program], then you wait.

Not recruiting other players was intended to be a show of how we were prioritizing him above all others. Given the outcome, it was a poor decision, at best.
 
What possible reason would the penalties cause him not to come here for his 1 year? We currently have a top 10 recruiting class incoming. And another top player signed up for 2016. So we are offering him great talent to play with as a freshman. We offer him a great chance to win or at least compete for a title his only season in college. No post season ban his freshman season. What penalty would have logically caused him to say NO?

What possible reason? How about the roster wouldn't be as strong during his one year here as it would be at other places? We are going to be down three scholarships per year--you don't think that would impact the talent pool?

Another reason: we lost out on a McD's big who many viewed as a two year prospect, who would have strengthened out team's inside play during Battle's one year. So maybe we were less attractive to him that we otherwise might have been if Bryant had chosen to come here.

Another reason: maybe he didn't want to go to a program with the stigma of having been heavily penalized. Or put another way, maybe the sanctions diminished our brand in his eyes relative to some other programs.

Another reason: given the harsh admonishment from the NCAA on Coach Boeheim, maybe JB was tarnished relative to some of the other big name coaches recruiting Battle.

There are PLENTY of reasons why the sanctions have directly and indirectly harmed us. Claiming that they had no impact isn't very realistic.
 
Agreed. So why were our coaches so off-target with their evaluation?

Re: how long you wait--if you believe you are going to land a player of Battle's caliber [and I differ from some in the opinion that Battle unequivocablly IS a surefire transcendent talent who would be a game changer for our program], then you wait.

Not recruiting other players was intended to be a show of how we were prioritizing him above all others. Given the outcome, it was a poor decision, at best.


This is where I think the penalties come into play. In a normal year I would say wait it out till the end if we don't land him then just roll the 'ship to the next year. But with the penalties limiting us to only 10 and we only have 2 spots open I don't think we can afford to wait on a player like that no matter how talented he is because with only 10 'ship we need to fill those every year. IMO
 
What possible reason? How about the roster wouldn't be as strong during his one year here as it would be at other places? We are going to be down three scholarships per year--you don't think that would impact the talent pool?

Another reason: we lost out on a McD's big who many viewed as a two year prospect, who would have strengthened out team's inside play during Battle's one year. So maybe we were less attractive to him that we otherwise might have been if Bryant had chosen to come here.

Another reason: maybe he didn't want to go to a program with the stigma of having been heavily penalized [i.e., maybe the sanctions diminished our brand in his eyes relative to some other programs].

There are PLENTY of reasons why the sanctions have directly and indirectly harmed us.


Very good point about Bryant.

But I don't think the talent point is a very good one...We have a top 10 class coming in this year and a major chip in Moyer already signed up for 2016. I think currently our talent in 2016 will be better than Michigan's talent. Since that is who he choose so the talent reason seems void.

Also now that I think about it why not go to Indiana if Bryant was a big factor?
 
What possible reason? How about the roster wouldn't be as strong during his one year here as it would be at other places? We are going to be down three scholarships per year--you don't think that would impact the talent pool?

Another reason: we lost out on a McD's big who many viewed as a two year prospect, who would have strengthened out team's inside play during Battle's one year. So maybe we were less attractive to him that we otherwise might have been if Bryant had chosen to come here.

Another reason: maybe he didn't want to go to a program with the stigma of having been heavily penalized. Or put another way, maybe the sanctions diminished our brand in his eyes relative to some other programs.

Another reason: given the harsh admonishment from the NCAA on Coach Boeheim, maybe JB was tarnished relative to some of the other big name coaches recruiting Battle.

There are PLENTY of reasons why the sanctions have directly and indirectly harmed us. Claiming that they had no impact isn't very realistic.

Another reason: As of now, JB is suspended 9 games. If you're a 1 and done prospect, that's a large chunk of your college tenure. Not saying this is definitely a reason (we'll probably never know), but it could be.
 
Another reason: As of now, JB is suspended 9 games. If you're a 1 and done prospect, that's a large chunk of your college tenure. Not saying this is definitely a reason (we'll probably never know), but it could be.


JB will not be suspended any games when Battle would be here.
 
Very good point about Bryant.

But I don't think the talent point is a very good one...We have a top 10 class coming in this year and a major chip in Moyer already signed up for 2016. I think currently our talent in 2016 will be better than Michigan's talent. Since that is who he choose so the talent reason seems void.

Also now that I think about it why not go to Indiana if Bryant was a big factor?

Precisely why I feel the penalties and the current perception of the program/JB were a big factor in his decision. Possibly the 100% zone D as well. Michigan's current roster, incoming class, and 2016 recruiting is not better than SU's right now, IMO. The unfortunate part is that it seems that Battle almost tricked the staff into buying into him being recruited as a PG when now it looks like he will be used as a SG like how Beilein used LeVert.
 
Precisely why I feel the penalties and the current perception of the program/JB were a big factor in his decision. Possibly the 100% zone D as well. Michigan's current roster, incoming class, and 2016 recruiting is not better than SU's right now, IMO. The unfortunate part is that it seems that Battle almost tricked the staff into buying into him being recruited as a PG when now it looks like he will be used as a SG like how Beilein used LeVert.

I've been one of the biggest JB supporters over the years, but JB did say we would kill it in recruiting if sanctions stigma was used against us......
 
The B1G is killing the ACC in recruiting right now if you subtract Duke. Purdue just got Swanigan. We lost two players to the B1G. Maryland is a force in recruiting now. Outside of Duke I don't think any other ACC school has a consensus top 20 player. Richardson looks to be the highest.

The ACC schools have great coaches, but you can argue the B1G is getting better players right now outside of Duke. If you think we are upset we are missing out on recruits, how do you think UNC feels. Nobody has any idea what is going on with that investigation, and they are getting no players right now.
 
Precisely why I feel the penalties and the current perception of the program/JB were a big factor in his decision. Possibly the 100% zone D as well. Michigan's current roster, incoming class, and 2016 recruiting is not better than SU's right now, IMO. The unfortunate part is that it seems that Battle almost tricked the staff into buying into him being recruited as a PG when now it looks like he will be used as a SG like how Beilein used LeVert.
Michigan plays a lot of 1-3-1 zone.
 
Precisely why I feel the penalties and the current perception of the program/JB were a big factor in his decision. Possibly the 100% zone D as well. Michigan's current roster, incoming class, and 2016 recruiting is not better than SU's right now, IMO. The unfortunate part is that it seems that Battle almost tricked the staff into buying into him being recruited as a PG when now it looks like he will be used as a SG like how Beilein used LeVert.
I agree the penalties and current perception could be a factor.

I disagree about the zone. Battle would have been like MCW. Battle as a tall guard would have been perfectly suited for the SU zone. And like MCW, Battle would have had no problem getting drafted by the NBA coming out of SU's zone.

I, too, think it is unfortunate that the Battle camp's communication with the SU staff bordered on trickery. The signals coming for a long time seemed to indicate they wanted the PG position, and at one time it seemed like they wanted JB almost exclusively.

This one hurts. Seemed to me like Battle would have been a great fit.
 
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The NCAA screwed us. And while I have hope in the appeal, the stain will sit there until we hear otherwise. The staff can only spin the sanctions so many ways. Until they are reduced or undone or nothing.. they are what they are. It can generate concern and that leads to doubt and you can do the rest. We have a solid core set up for next seasond hopefully we can add to the 2016 class still yet with simmons etc. Right now the NCAA is public enemy number 1 in this and the Bryant decision. We need to send in about a few hundred Terry Tate's to clean house.

Placing all the blame on the NCAA is disingenuous at best. At some point you have to lay the blame at the feet of those who are the stewards of the program. What we are now seeing is the effects of years of laying eggs which now have suddenly hatched. All of the twisted and convoluted rationale about each of the events which collectively have cast a very negative pall over the Syracuse Basketball program need to be seen for what they are. Some here have been quick to say that similar things occur at other schools and somehow Syracuse has been singled out. The facts are this: The actions of the program and those in charge of it have resulted in the situation we find ourselves in.

As strong as the program has been it's ridiculous to think that a litany of negative press over an extended period of time won't have some type of resultant negative impact. We've been in the cross hairs of the negative publicity gun for a long time. The Bernie Fine mess, the drug testing mess, the Fab Melo debacle, the rumors of assaults against coeds by players, the eligibility problems with Southerland. Jimmy B. being called out as tone deaf with respect to the allegations made against Bernie Fine and his outbursts to the press.

Hey, I'm not saying that there haven't been mitigating circumstances with many of these things and certainly we have been cast as being guilty when we haven't been. But the bottom line is this stuff has been going on. A lawyer asks a defendant in court, "So how long have you been beating your wife?" Even if the defendant has never done so it still puts that idea in the heads of the jurors.

The jurors for the program are these young kids who are looking for the best route to the NBA. All things considered it's naive to think that they don't take all of the turmoil that has surrounded our program into consideration. You can't blame them if they choose to avoid a program which is going to be under the pall of punishment from the NCAA for the next couple years and also a program which is in the midst of a huge transitional and redefining period. Most importantly, the program has a rich tradition and will be able to endure and perhaps thrive in spite of the current challenges to the program. We will emerge from the transition as a better and stronger program. Of that I have no doubt.

It's really a shame that this is all going down like this and sadly I think things are going to be very difficult with respect to attracting top talent here in the years while the sanctions are in place. And so it is. I've been a Syracuse fan for 40 years. I don't like what's going on but I will stick by the program as we endure through the sanctions over the next several years. That's what fans do, they stick by their program no matter what but at the same time they can be honest in accessing what the problems are with their program without looking to place blame anywhere other then where it belongs. In the mean time the kids we do have that are carrying the program forward over these next several years deserve the unquestioning support of the fanbase. As fans we can just sit back and take it all in but the kids in the program are asked to give a lot. I continue to feel for Rak and all that he gave to the program only to have his Sr. year marred by being banned from post season play which he so richly deserved. If he and others in the program can keep their chins up and soldier on through the tough times... certainly we as fans can do that... on here too.
 
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While I know this will likely discarded by many, I still feel the need (for my own sanity since everyone else here has voiced their opinion, sometimes 10x over) to state my own view. You can call it whatever you want. First, I sincerely VERY much appreciate and value the opinions of all the die-hard SU fans here that post good stuff. We all want the basically the same, with very few exceptions. We may want to go about things differently, which is fine. However, this thread, and a few others, are embarrassing to me as a proud 'Cuse fan. I can't imagine the field day that other fans from other schools are having reading posts that suggest we are in trouble, going down hill or whatever else that has been said. I cringe at the thought of recruits reading this thread.

In any event, my opinion (and suggestion) is to let this damn thing play out. I agree with most of the ideas, thoughts, and concerns; however, it just seems at this point to me a LOT more needs to play out before we can definitively value the job that the staff has done with recruiting as well as the state of our program moving forward. It just appears that there is a lot of overreaction (again, my opinion). I'm just one who likes to see the end result before judging and it doesn't look like that is being done by many here.
 
While I know this will likely discarded by many, I still feel the need (for my own sanity since everyone else here has voiced their opinion, sometimes 10x over) to state my own view. You can call it whatever you want. First, I sincerely VERY much appreciate and value the opinions of all the die-hard SU fans here that post good stuff. We all want the basically the same, with very few exceptions. We may want to go about things differently, which is fine. However, this thread, and a few others, are embarrassing to me as a proud 'Cuse fan. I can't imagine the field day that other fans from other schools are having reading posts that suggest we are in trouble, going down hill or whatever else that has been said. I cringe at the thought of recruits reading this thread.

In any event, my opinion (and suggestion) is to let this damn thing play out. I agree with most of the ideas, thoughts, and concerns; however, it just seems at this point to me a LOT more needs to play out before we can definitively value the job that the staff has done with recruiting as well as the state of our program moving forward. It just appears that there is a lot of overreaction (again, my opinion). I'm just one who likes to see the end result before judging and it doesn't look like that is being done by many here.

Dont worry. When we secure our next high profile recruit, well be talking about our national championship probabilities. If there is one thing I feel like JB is good at, is recovering from adversity when he's been counted out.
 
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Dont worry. When we secure our next high profile recruit, well be talking about our national championship probabilities. If there is one thing I feel like JB is good at, is recovering from adversary when he's been counted out.

Yeah, you're probably right and that's spot on about Boeheim.

I love this forum, but the bipolar swings can sometimes be exhausting. However, I bleed Orange so there is no keeping me away. Carry on...
 
Yeah, you're probably right and that's spot on about Boeheim.

I love this forum, but the bipolar swings can sometimes be exhausting. However, I bleed Orange so there is no keeping me away. Carry on...

It's just a sports forum. They're all like this. It's not actual behavior. It's like drunk behavior in real life. I agree that opposing fans would have a field day with it, but only because they forget that their own forum is the same way. Just like the sanctions discussion, where lots of SU fans feel singled out and that other programs are doing worse things - so it is with opposing fans that think they don't have the same underbelly to their online communities. Bottom line: if you are a college sports fan, you are accepting all manner of immature behavior, ethical and moral compromises out the wazoo, and just plain irrational-ness. If you are crazy enough to accept all that in the name of love for your program - then you deserve to call yourself a hardcore fan.
 
It's just a sports forum. They're all like this. It's not actual behavior. It's like drunk behavior in real life. I agree that opposing fans would have a field day with it, but only because they forget that their own forum is the same way. Just like the sanctions discussion, where lots of SU fans feel singled out and that other programs are doing worse things - so it is with opposing fans that think they don't have the same underbelly to their online communities. Bottom line: if you are a college sports fan, you are accepting all manner of immature behavior, ethical and moral compromises out the wazoo, and just plain irrational-ness. If you are crazy enough to accept all that in the name of love for your program - then you deserve to call yourself a hardcore fan.
yep
 
... As strong as the program has been it's ridiculous to think that a litany of negative press over an extended period of time won't have some type of resultant negative impact. We've been in the cross hairs of the negative publicity gun for a long time. The Bernie Fine mess, the drug testing mess, the Fab Melo debacle, the rumors of assaults against coeds by players, the eligibility problems with Southerland. Jimmy B. being called out as tone deaf with respect to the allegations made against Bernie Fine and his outbursts to the press.

I agree with much of your post which is why I "liked it". However, let's be real. Sports fans have a very short memory span (probably due to drinking too much which I'm often guilty of). Sometimes I watch the 2003 championship over because I completely forgot the outcome. Okay, back to my point... you ask anyone outside of Orange nation who Bernie Fine is (let alone Southerland) and I would fully expect hardly anyone to associate him with Syracuse or even remember much about what that was about. The other stuff, again, I just don't think that is a matter of it catching up with us. The sanctions, yeah, that is the one thing I'd agree with you on, but only to a small degree. It could also work to our favor in showing players that they will have more playing time.
 

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