Plays/Sets we’ve stopped running over the years...

[Cusefan0307]

1. We used to run a play where the 4/5 would screen for the the opposite side, the 2 would curl and the 4/5 would follow to the post. We ran this a ton with Rautins and Jackson/Arinze and most recently with Triche and Fair. I don’t think I’ve seen us run this play since Triche graduated. I’m not sure why we can’t run this with Battle and Brissett.

2. When Rautins and later Triche played the 2, they seemed to be good for a fake pass to the wing and sometimes a screened(or unscreened) back door cut to the hoop for a layup. Again I haven’t seen this since Triche graduated.

3. We used to double post and Rick would come to the high post and he could have Arinze low. We most recently ran this with Grant and Christmas(caveat our centers stink this year).

4. We would run multiple cuts off the baseline with our 2 and 3 coming off curls to get them going downhill. This was big with Triche/Dion/CJ. A version of my 2nd play we ran. Again this set is never run anymore.

There seems to be a bunch of stuff we don’t run anymore. A lot of it involves passing and guys catching the ball on the move. Does JB not trust our guys to make the right pass anymore?

 

[Horn88]

Might be included in your initial list and I didn't recognize it but I remember we used to have a set where one of our forwards would come across the bottom of the floor off a cross screen and catch it in the mid range area. We'd space the floor and let CJ, Melo, Joseph, Hak whoever turn and face his guy up from ~15-17' on the bottom 1/4 of the floor and just try making a play. Still remember CJ catching it against Duke in the Dome the first match up, facing up and taking a hard dribble into the lane and dunking that sent the place nuts.

OB could be much more effective there than catching it two steps behind the 3 pt line or on the elbow with a packed defense all around him.

 

[syrBossHogg]

We used to run that 3rd play you mentioned with Wes in the low post too. I think if Oshae was better at finishing we would see that play more often

 

[Sherman20]

Great thread to start up! Maybe JB needs to do what Beilein did and hire someone who can help him with the offense or let Autry run the show there. Beilein did this with his defense (handed it over to assistant Luke Yaklich). He admitted he never spent as much time thinking about defense, that his eye is always drawn to offense, and now Michigan has been one of the best defensive teams in the country two years running. Michigan's Beilein says he's still coaching due to changes
JB’s offensive philosophy and approach has stagnated in recent years and needs a serious rethinking. We also need to get out on the break and score in transition more. That’s how our best teams thrived.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Didn’t jim used to be really good out of timeouts at drawing stuff up? Seems very rare these days. I did see a play in the first half but it still only led to a fading elbow jumper that tyus missed.

Seems like in the past when opponents made runs, which happens in b-ball, we would more often than not get a nice easy bucket off a timeout to stop their run.

 

[Alsacs]

Honestly when people say we are the most easy team to prepare for it’s not hyperbole.
We play the same defense 100% of the time unless we press if we fall behind double digits.
We don’t do anything on offense but dribble the clock down and let somebody go 1 on 1 or chuck up a 3.
I remember the Rautins play we tried to run it for Cooney.
We don’t run any sets now.

 

[cuseinseattle]

1. We used to run a play where the 4/5 would screen for the the opposite side, the 2 would curl and the 4/5 would follow to the post. We ran this a ton with Rautins and Jackson/Arinze and most recently with Triche and Fair. I don’t think I’ve seen us run this play since Triche graduated. I’m not sure why we can’t run this with Battle and Brissett.

2. When Rautins and later Triche played the 2, they seemed to be good for a fake pass to the wing and sometimes a screened(or unscreened) back door cut to the hoop for a layup. Again I haven’t seen this since Triche graduated.

3. We used to double post and Rick would come to the high post and he could have Arinze low. We most recently ran this with Grant and Christmas(caveat our centers stink this year).

4. We would run multiple cuts off the baseline with our 2 and 3 coming off curls to get them going downhill. This was big with Triche/Dion/CJ. A version of my 2nd play we ran. Again this set is never run anymore.

There seems to be a bunch of stuff we don’t run anymore. A lot of it involves passing and guys catching the ball on the move. Does JB not trust our guys to make the right pass anymore?

Great post. Something constructive to talk about it. #1 is the one I would point out of you had asked me to name something we don't run anymore. That was effective. #3 was particularly effective on the AO and Ric team. I get why we don't run it when Pascal or Sidibe are in there but when we bring Marek in I would think this could be really effective with Marek up top and Oshae down below. It could also be a high percentage shot for Oshae and get his confidence going instead of the drive and triple pump contested lay up he takes.

 

[JoeySimz]

1. We used to run a play where the 4/5 would screen for the the opposite side, the 2 would curl and the 4/5 would follow to the post. We ran this a ton with Rautins and Jackson/Arinze and most recently with Triche and Fair. I don’t think I’ve seen us run this play since Triche graduated. I’m not sure why we can’t run this with Battle and Brissett.

2. When Rautins and later Triche played the 2, they seemed to be good for a fake pass to the wing and sometimes a screened(or unscreened) back door cut to the hoop for a layup. Again I haven’t seen this since Triche graduated.

3. We used to double post and Rick would come to the high post and he could have Arinze low. We most recently ran this with Grant and Christmas(caveat our centers stink this year).

4. We would run multiple cuts off the baseline with our 2 and 3 coming off curls to get them going downhill. This was big with Triche/Dion/CJ. A version of my 2nd play we ran. Again this set is never run anymore.

There seems to be a bunch of stuff we don’t run anymore. A lot of it involves passing and guys catching the ball on the move. Does JB not trust our guys to make the right pass anymore?

Nice post. We still run #1 albeit not effectively. We got a basket in the Old Dominion on a version of this play, can’t remember if we used against UB. I mentioned this in my post about Old Dominion - situations.

#3 I think you’re right that it might be asking much of our bigs, unless we use Marek as the high and the play develops fast enough so the low man doesn’t have to bang for too long.

In regards to #2 and #4, you’ve hit on something that is really hindering this offense. Almost all of the action is at the top of the key to the elbow. We’re getting almost nothing in the corners or baseline. Once in a while Tyus will run the baseline but he then has to come all the way back up top to retrieve a handoff and we start all over again.

There’s just too much dribbling. We need to work the ball beyond the three point line by passing and cutting more, flashing to the paint, etc. Our guards and wings have to do more without the ball.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

1. We used to run a play where the 4/5 would screen for the the opposite side, the 2 would curl and the 4/5 would follow to the post. We ran this a ton with Rautins and Jackson/Arinze and most recently with Triche and Fair. I don’t think I’ve seen us run this play since Triche graduated. I’m not sure why we can’t run this with Battle and Brissett.

2. When Rautins and later Triche played the 2, they seemed to be good for a fake pass to the wing and sometimes a screened(or unscreened) back door cut to the hoop for a layup. Again I haven’t seen this since Triche graduated.

3. We used to double post and Rick would come to the high post and he could have Arinze low. We most recently ran this with Grant and Christmas(caveat our centers stink this year).

4. We would run multiple cuts off the baseline with our 2 and 3 coming off curls to get them going downhill. This was big with Triche/Dion/CJ. A version of my 2nd play we ran. Again this set is never run anymore.

There seems to be a bunch of stuff we don’t run anymore. A lot of it involves passing and guys catching the ball on the move. Does JB not trust our guys to make the right pass anymore?

Just watch any NBA game. They run a lot of ISO plays that seal off the entire lane. Lots of great offensive strategy to modify. Easily stuff Tyus and Brissett could benefit from. And just like that one that Chukwi benefitted from coming out of halftime.

 

[OttoMets]

I miss that double-stack play they used to run to get consistent good looks from the top of the key. Not complaining, because I'm not sure we have the talent to execute that right now.

Also, inbounding under the basket: remember when we used to screen to free a cutter for an alley-oop? That was good for some free points. Haven't seen that in years.

 

[Fat tire 13]

Didn’t jim used to be really good out of timeouts at drawing stuff up? Seems very rare these days. I did see a play in the first half but it still only led to a fading elbow jumper that tyus missed.

Seems like in the past when opponents made runs, which happens in b-ball, we would more often than not get a nice easy bucket off a timeout to stop their run.

I remember this too - used to be a very reliable outcome

 

[pearl31]

Love this thread.
And would love to hear JB talk about why we don't or "can't" run those 3 sets 0307 has listed in the OP

 

[BludOrange]

Not necessarily a play, but we no longer semi push the ball and hit the trailer for a wide open 3 attempt 2-3 times a game. Or get the defender to overreact on that same threat, and close out hard on the shooter, resulting in a foul or a few passes around the horn against a scrambling defense. Speaking of getting fouled on a 3, why do our guys try to avoid the out of control defender flying at them instead of taking the foul? Seems like they would rather force up an awkward shot.

Use to attempt to run the same alley-oop play that many use against us. Usually it's just a backdoor cut along the baseline, with the opposing big being engaged or picked out of the way by our big.

There was the pick and pop play that Lydon excelled at, but don't think we have ran that play since he left.

Once in a while, we use to post up a guard, or feed a guard down low and let him wiggle around for a close shot. With the length our guards have, we should at least try a time or two a game, to take advantage of their size and post them up against some opposing diminutive guard.

The biggest change has been not pushing the ball at all. We use to play at a much faster pace up until JB went with the we must have the best players on the floor at all times mantra. Which, was somewhat forced upon him due to the scholarship restrictions. Early offense has alaways been JB's teams best offense over the years. Imo, be better to try and imitate N. Carolina and how they try to push the ball, even after a made basket.

 

[NorSyr66]

Interesting thread with many good insights on plays that we could run. My biggest concern is even if we could run these plays again, we still have to put the ball into the basket at the end. I have never, ever seen a basketball team, this year and last, that misses so many bunnies. I just sit there in disbelief wondering how players 6 ft 6in to over 7 ft tall can not place the ball in the cylinder with any consistency. You can run plays till the cows come home but if you can not finish, what good does it do. Maybe the frustration on this team is with each other missing all these easy points. Then there is another parallel discussion on all the missed free throws.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Might be included in your initial list and I didn't recognize it but I remember we used to have a set where one of our forwards would come across the bottom of the floor off a cross screen and catch it in the mid range area. We'd space the floor and let CJ, Melo, Joseph, Hak whoever turn and face his guy up from ~15-17' on the bottom 1/4 of the floor and just try making a play. Still remember CJ catching it against Duke in the Dome the first match up, facing up and taking a hard dribble into the lane and dunking that sent the place nuts.

OB could be much more effective there than catching it two steps behind the 3 pt line or on the elbow with a packed defense all around him.

They run this for OB, but he has no mid-range game and can't/won't post up.

 

[Col. Bleep]

1. We used to run a play where the 4/5 would screen for the the opposite side, the 2 would curl and the 4/5 would follow to the post. We ran this a ton with Rautins and Jackson/Arinze and most recently with Triche and Fair. I don’t think I’ve seen us run this play since Triche graduated. I’m not sure why we can’t run this with Battle and Brissett.

Cooney got some looks like this as well.
Favorite one of these was Andy Rautins tying the game with 11 or 12 seconds left in third OT (of 6) against UConn. Andy had a guy all over him and the shot was perfect.

Presumably this could be run for Battle.
Maybe he prefers setting up his own 3's instead of the catch and shoot.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Not necessarily a play, but we no longer semi push the ball and hit the trailer for a wide open 3 attempt 2-3 times a game. Or get the defender to overreact on that same threat, and close out hard on the shooter, resulting in a foul or a few passes around the horn against a scrambling defense. Speaking of getting fouled on a 3, why do our guys try to avoid the out of control defender flying at them instead of taking the foul? Seems like they would rather force up an awkward shot.

Use to attempt to run the same alley-oop play that many use against us. Usually it's just a backdoor cut along the baseline, with the opposing big being engaged or picked out of the way by our big.

There was the pick and pop play that Lydon excelled at, but don't think we have ran that play since he left.

Once in a while, we use to post up a guard, or feed a guard down low and let him wiggle around for a close shot. With the length our guards have, we should at least try a time or two a game, to take advantage of their size and post them up against some opposing diminutive guard.

The biggest change has been not pushing the ball at all. We use to play at a much faster pace up until JB went with the we must have the best players on the floor at all times mantra. Which, was somewhat forced upon him due to the scholarship restrictions. Early offense has alaways been JB's teams best offense over the years. Imo, be better to try and imitate N. Carolina and how they try to push the ball, even after a made basket.

We’re done pushing the pace. He said in the presser last game that we aren’t a running team.

Yeah your first paragraph is on point. Very seldom can we get a defense scrambling. If you ball stop, don’t move it, and certainly plod then you get what we often see. The root canal of needing to attack a set defense with mediocre players and sometimes 3 on 5...doomsday. You need some fast guys to break a D down, crisp reversals-swinging of the ball to get a D scrambling and we just don’t see that.

 

[tbonezone]

the sherman douglas between the legs fast break pass... game was fun to watch back then.

 

[CusefanATL]

2. When Rautins and later Triche played the 2, they seemed to be good for a fake pass to the wing and sometimes a screened(or unscreened) back door cut to the hoop for a layup. Again I haven’t seen this since Triche graduated.

Wow... i remember all those plays... and now i only know 1 play. A 3 man weave and a ball screen.

but #2 - cooney ran that play a bit too.

 

[CusefanATL]

We’re done pushing the pace. He said in the presser last game that we aren’t a running team.

Yeah your first paragraph is on point. Very seldom can we get a defense scrambling. If you ball stop, don’t move it, and certainly plod then you get what we often see. The root canal of needing to attack a set defense with mediocre players and sometimes 3 on 5...doomsday. You need some fast guys to break a D down, crisp reversals-swinging of the ball to get a D scrambling and we just don’t see that.

we are when Jalen is in. Frank is the guy who slows it down.

Its kind of like Frank thinks that slowing it down and setting up is the smart thing to do... which it is when we are out of control or out of sync... but Frank does it nearly everytime he touches the ball. Watch him. You'll see him motion to slow it down like 3-4 times a game. And i just scream in my head - GO GO GO!!!

And i have always been a frank guy. And i still am. I think our team would be great Frank just took it straigh to the rim a few times bringing the ball up the court. at least get into the middle and keep the centers as far away as possible. now you have 2-3 shooters all around you and a back door cutter. the world is your oyster.

 

[SoBeCuse]

we are when Jalen is in. Frank is the guy who slows it down.

Its kind of like Frank thinks that slowing it down and setting up is the smart thing to do... which it is when we are out of control or out of sync... but Frank does it nearly everytime he touches the ball. Watch him. You'll see him motion to slow it down like 3-4 times a game. And i just scream in my head - GO GO GO!!!

And i have always been a frank guy. And i still am. I think our team would be great Frank just took it straigh to the rim a few times bringing the ball up the court. at least get into the middle and keep the centers as far away as possible. now you have 2-3 shooters all around you and a back door cutter. the world is your oyster.

Yeah Silent G was great at your last paragraph scenario. Sometimes he just would go straight downhill like you suggested and make a great play. The problem is that Frank, even at 100%, is not even close to Silent G in terms of speed. Certainly not that mentality either. Really wanted to see him off the ball more with Carey playing PG. Hopefully we see that more moving forward. I can’t take the plodding anymore.

 

[OttoMets]

Yeah Silent G was great at your last paragraph scenario. Sometimes he just would go straight downhill like you suggested and make a great play. The problem is that Frank, even at 100%, is not even close to Silent G in terms of speed. Certainly not that mentality either. Really wanted to see him off the ball more with Carey playing PG. Hopefully we see that more moving forward. I can’t take the plodding anymore.

Keep in mind, though, that irrespective of pace, Gbinije was a mediocre finisher. He did improve with time but even as a senior he shot 63.5% at the rim.

I still say that I wish we could've seen him as a small forward on a team with actual good players on it. Guy would've probably been very good playing with a point guard rather than playing as a point guard. And even so he had a great senior season.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Keep in mind, though, that irrespective of pace, Gbinije was a mediocre finisher. He did improve with time but even as a senior he shot 63.5% at the rim.

I still say that I wish we could've seen him as a small forward on a team with actual good players on it. Guy would've probably been very good playing with a point guard rather than playing as a point guard. And even so he had a great senior season.

Yep on both fronts.

 

[Sherman20]

Honestly when people say we are the most easy team to prepare for it’s not hyperbole.
We play the same defense 100% of the time unless we press if we fall behind double digits.
We don’t do anything on offense but dribble the clock down and let somebody go 1 on 1 or chuck up a 3.
I remember the Rautins play we tried to run it for Cooney.
We don’t run any sets now.

Stop with this. The team does run sets. They may need new sets and a serious rethinking and better execution, but they absolutely run plays. It’s not “go 1-1 or chuck up a 3.” You need to watch the game more closely.

 

[General Joe]

We’re done pushing the pace. He said in the presser last game that we aren’t a running team.

Yeah your first paragraph is on point. Very seldom can we get a defense scrambling. If you ball stop, don’t move it, and certainly plod then you get what we often see. The root canal of needing to attack a set defense with mediocre players and sometimes 3 on 5...doomsday. You need some fast guys to break a D down, crisp reversals-swinging of the ball to get a D scrambling and we just don’t see that.

I guess he wasn't watching the first 5 minutes of the Gtown game when all we did was run and in the process erase a big big lead

If you watch Syracuse its like a bad bad middle school offense. A couple questions i ask every possession

1. Why do our guards dribble over have court and immediately pick up the dribble and look to stationary pass as opposed to making a play
2. Why does a 7-2 uncoordinated center get the ball 25 ft from the rim every other position and look to pass??????
3. Why does a 7-2 center run out to set a pick for our Battle or Hughes 25 ft away from the basket. The defense simply doubles off of Chuckwu and its not like he can get the pass back and make a play or a 3 pointer. So we effectively initiate a double team
4. Why dont we ever throw the ball in the paint on a post up. Even when Brissett has a 6-2 guy on him like vs Buffalo.
5. Why dont we ever take advantage of having a 6-5 point guard or a 6-6 solid shooting guard by posting them?
6. What ever happened to the "horns" play we used to run? Atleast in that set we had action going to the rim. It was actually a college level play

I could go on and on BUT it gets depressing. Lets just pray these guys hit some of the 25 jacked up threes as the shot clock is expiring