Portal Big Men Prospects for Next Year

[dasher]

I think Brown will be the 5 and Freeman the 4 and we go from there and that is going to be pretty good. The need is for a 3 that can really play on all fronts. Both offensive and defensive. I am not confidant that Bell can be that guy. Maybe. So far, we haven't seen that. What we do at the point is going to be really, really interesting. Can Copeland be that? Or JJ at some time? There has been too much talk about Moore in my book. He isn't going to come in and split time with JJ. He will get minutes because he does have a skill that we need. How much is the question.

 

[IthacaMatt]

None of those guys could have handled Rony as a junior with DC as a freshman. Those 2 would have destroyed all those teams.
With all the one and dones, the college game is a lot worse then it was then.

If we want to ever make another Final Four, we're going to need a good big man. UConn won with a couple very good traditional centers last year. Gonzaga is always very tall. Carolina and Duke always have a good big man. So does Kentucky, so does Purdue.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I think Brown will be the 5 and Freeman the 4 and we go from there and that is going to be pretty good. The need is for a 3 that can really play on all fronts. Both offensive and defensive. I am not confidant that Bell can be that guy. Maybe. So far, we haven't seen that. What we do at the point is going to be really, really interesting. Can Copeland be that? Or JJ at some time? There has been too much talk about Moore in my book. He isn't going to come in and split time with JJ. He will get minutes because he does have a skill that we need. How much is the question.

If Brown & Freeman are our two bigs in next year's starting line up, between them they will have the skinniest legs this side of a Paris fashion runway.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think Brown will be the 5 and Freeman the 4 and we go from there and that is going to be pretty good. The need is for a 3 that can really play on all fronts. Both offensive and defensive. I am not confidant that Bell can be that guy. Maybe. So far, we haven't seen that. What we do at the point is going to be really, really interesting. Can Copeland be that? Or JJ at some time? There has been too much talk about Moore in my book. He isn't going to come in and split time with JJ. He will get minutes because he does have a skill that we need. How much is the question.

I'm still a Bell-iever.

And I think Copeland will be really good as our starting point guard. Like, possibly All-ACC good.

 

[dasher]

I'm still a Bell-iever.

And I think Copeland will be really good as our starting point guard. Like, possibly All-ACC good.

Well, he has the outside shot. And he is starting to develop that pull-up. But he has to play better defense. And become a better rebounder.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Well, he has the outside shot. And he is starting to develop that pull-up. But he has to play better defense. And become a better rebounder.

Fully agree. I think he can, because he has shown improvement already. He can keep getting better. And really, we need him to.

 

[sufandu]

History disagrees. Look at Nova and Baylors recent titles. Houston’s tallest guy is 6’7” this year and they are 18-2. Everyone’s favorite Nate Oats plays without a traditional center just about every season. I could go on, but those are the schools on the top of my head.

Houston has guys that are 6'9" 265lbs, 6'8" 240lbs, 6'7" 235", and 6'7" 230. They also have a skinny 6'10" guy. They can match up with physical teams. When people say traditional center, all they're saying is someone that can be physical near the basket. It doesn't have to be a 7 footer. It has to be a couple guys that can bang down low, rebound against physical teams, and have a little offense in the post. We're not looking for Shaq.

Baylor has guys that are 6'9" 225lbs, 6'10" 230lbs, 7' 230lbs, 6'8" 235lbs, and 6'8" 250.

Alabama has 5 guys on their roster that are at least 6'10". A bunch get double digit minutes and not all of them are shooters. They have options to go big.

Our roster looks nothing like these. We need some guys with some muscle. If they can shoot, great, they're probably elite. If they can't shoot outside 10 ft but do a good impression of Rick Jackson, there is role for them. We can't have a whole roster of those, but a couple let us match up with other big teams.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Houston has guys that are 6'9" 265lbs, 6'8" 240lbs, 6'7" 235", and 6'7" 230. They also have a skinny 6'10" guy. They can match up with physical teams. When people say traditional center, all they're saying is someone that can be physical near the basket. It doesn't have to be a 7 footer. It has to be a couple guys that can bang down low, rebound against physical teams, and have a little offense in the post. We're not looking for Shaq.

Baylor has guys that are 6'9" 225lbs, 6'10" 230lbs, 7' 230lbs, 6'8" 235lbs, and 6'8" 250.

Alabama has 5 guys on their roster that are at least 6'10". A bunch get double digit minutes and not all of them are shooters. They have options to go big.

Our roster looks nothing like these. We need some guys with some muscle. If they can shoot, great, they're probably elite. If they can't shoot outside 10 ft but do a good impression of Rick Jackson, there is role for them. We can't have a whole roster of those, but a couple let us match up with other big teams.

Come on, most of those guys you listed barely play. Are we talking about getting a center here or end of the bench fodder because we already have that in McLeod, Carey and Patterson.

 

[shu 49]

I'm still a Bell-iever.

And I think Copeland will be really good as our starting point guard. Like, possibly All-ACC good.

Me too.

 

[sufandu]

Come on, most of those guys you listed barely play. Are we talking about getting a center here or end of the bench fodder because we already have that in McLeod, Carey and Patterson.

I didn't look at the stats for Houston. I glanced at Baylor and Alabama and a bunch of those guys play double digit minutes or are freshman. The point is, they all recruit guys that they can use when they need to. This idea that we should only have mobile guys that way 220 or less is foolish. There are 13 scholarships. Devoting a couple to physical players gives us versatility to match up.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I didn't look at the stats for Houston. I glanced at Baylor and Alabama and a bunch of those guys play double digit minutes or are freshman. The point is, they all recruit guys that they can use when they need to. This idea that we should only have mobile guys that way 220 or less is foolish. There are 13 scholarships. Devoting a couple to physical players gives us versatility to match up.

Grant Nelson(6’10”) is the guy who starts for Bama at center. He’s basically Tyler Lydon. People here complained when we played him at the 5. His backup is the same size and the same type of player. they both play on the perimeter and the backup only shoots 3’s. Is that what we are speaking of wanting here? It seems like people want a banger for whatever reason.

The 7 footer for Baylor hasn’t played a game. The guy they start at center is marginally bigger than Freeman and Brown and again when they won the title they had zero people in their rotation taller than 6’7”.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Houston has guys that are 6'9" 265lbs, 6'8" 240lbs, 6'7" 235", and 6'7" 230. They also have a skinny 6'10" guy. They can match up with physical teams. When people say traditional center, all they're saying is someone that can be physical near the basket. It doesn't have to be a 7 footer. It has to be a couple guys that can bang down low, rebound against physical teams, and have a little offense in the post. We're not looking for Shaq.

Baylor has guys that are 6'9" 225lbs, 6'10" 230lbs, 7' 230lbs, 6'8" 235lbs, and 6'8" 250.

Alabama has 5 guys on their roster that are at least 6'10". A bunch get double digit minutes and not all of them are shooters. They have options to go big.

Our roster looks nothing like these. We need some guys with some muscle. If they can shoot, great, they're probably elite. If they can't shoot outside 10 ft but do a good impression of Rick Jackson, there is role for them. We can't have a whole roster of those, but a couple let us match up with other big teams.

Terrific post. I was going through the rankings last night, and 5 of the top 7 teams have a physical presence at center. Yes, it's not Artis Gilmore versus Kareem Jabbar in college anymore. But you have to have bulk to prevent bigger people from just bodying you away from the hoop.

 

[sufandu]

Grant Nelson(6’10”) is the guy who starts for Bama at center. He’s basically Tyler Lydon. People here complained when we played him at the 5. His backup is the same size and the same type of player. they both play on the perimeter and the backup only shoots 3’s. Is that what we are speaking of wanting here? It seems like people want a banger for whatever reason.

The 7 footer for Baylor hasn’t played a game. The guy they start at center is marginally bigger than Freeman and Brown and again when they won the title they had zero people in their rotation taller than 6’7”.

You seem to be really stuck on height. Most of the players are heavier than anyone we have even if they're 6'7" or 6'8". It's about having someone that can be physical. If the guy can shoot threes, great. If not, there are still roles for physical players. Are you trying to say Rick Jackson or Rakeem Christmas wouldn't make this team better?

 

[Cusefan0307]

You seem to be really stuck on height. Most of the players are heavier than anyone we have even if they're 6'7" or 6'8". It's about having someone that can be physical. If the guy can shoot threes, great. If not, there are still roles for physical players. Are you trying to say Rick Jackson or Rakeem Christmas wouldn't make this team better?

As I explained the Bama guys are not physical players and you don't think Maliq will be more physical with another year of experience?

Rakeem and Jackson weren't even as good as Maliq Brown is right now as sophomores. You're thinking of the Senior year version of both. It took them a long time to get there.

Anyway I'm 99% sure Freeman and Brown will be played 30mpg next year at the 4 and 5. Probably see McLeod and Carey get spot minutes. If you're just looking for a big body there then McLeod is the guy.

 

[longtimefan]

Because you still have to play defense.

And you notice how the really good teams DO have a traditional center? Look at the guys you list.

If we want to be a team that can make a Sweet 16, we have to have a guy who can defend Edey, Clingan, Bacot, etc. We can't just have to surrender underneath the basket on defense because the other team has one or two or even three guys who are simply bigger and stronger than us.

Bacot is not UNC's best or most important player.

 

[sufandu]

As I explained the Bama guys are not physical players and you don't think Maliq will be more physical with another year of experience?

Rakeem and Jackson weren't even as good as Maliq Brown is right now as sophomores. You're thinking of the Senior year version of both. It took them a long time to get there.

Anyway I'm 99% sure Freeman and Brown will be played 30mpg next year at the 4 and 5. Probably see McLeod and Carey get spot minutes. If you're just looking for a big body there then McLeod is the guy.

You're confusing skills with style. They both contributed significantly before senior year. Rakeem averaged nearly 2 blocks per game as a sophomore playing 20mpg. Rick Jackson started 27 games as a sophomore. He averaged 1.6 blocks as a sophomore, 2 as a junior, and 2.5 as a senior. And he was a solid rebounder that got better every year. The point is they were physical style players that are different than anyone we have on the roster.

Malk is not as physical now as they were as sophomores, and I don't think he will be more physical unless he adds at least 10 lbs more muscle. When is the last time one of our players did that?

I'm not just looking for a big body. I'm looking for a big body that's better than McLeod.

 

[sufandu]

Bacot is not UNC's best or most important player.

He's not, but he and players like him are bad match ups for us, and he is AN important player for them. People aren't suggesting we need a big guy to come in and be our best player. What we need is a big guy that can come in and be a good player.

 

[Cusefan0307]

You're confusing skills with style. They both contributed significantly before senior year. Rakeem averaged nearly 2 blocks per game as a sophomore playing 20mpg. Rick Jackson started 27 games as a sophomore. He averaged 1.6 blocks as a sophomore, 2 as a junior, and 2.5 as a senior. And he was a solid rebounder that got better every year. The point is they were physical style players that are different than anyone we have on the roster.

Malk is not as physical now as they were as sophomores, and I don't think he will be more physical unless he adds at least 10 lbs more muscle. When is the last time one of our players did that?

I'm not just looking for a big body. I'm looking for a big body that's better than McLeod.

Jim Boeheim isn't the coach anymore so not sure why were are comparing now until yesteryear. By most accounts Red values training more than JB did.

The main point is I don't see what difference maker we can get here that is willing to play 10-15 mpg behind those guys as they are going to eat the majority of the minutes. The difference maker you want probably goes somewhere else to play more.. We probably need to get improvement out of McLeod, Carey, or Patterson.

 

[Orangezoo]

As I explained the Bama guys are not physical players and you don't think Maliq will be more physical with another year of experience?

Rakeem and Jackson weren't even as good as Maliq Brown is right now as sophomores. You're thinking of the Senior year version of both. It took them a long time to get there.

Anyway I'm 99% sure Freeman and Brown will be played 30mpg next year at the 4 and 5. Probably see McLeod and Carey get spot minutes. If you're just looking for a big body there then McLeod is the guy.

If Brown can add 10-15 lbs or more this off season he’s exactly what we need and an All ACC center.

I think the bigger question is who plays behind him and behind Freeman.. in terms of who sticks around , who portals etc I.e. do they bring McLeod back as a backup, does Patterson make a jump and show something, does Benny come back and put a whole season together, does Carey improve enough to be more than emergency depth then of course questions on Bell and Taylor too.

 

[sufandu]

Jim Boeheim isn't the coach anymore so not sure why were are comparing now until yesteryear. By most accounts Red values training more than JB did.

The main point is I don't see what difference maker we can get here that is willing to play 10-15 mpg behind those guys as they are going to eat the majority of the minutes. The difference maker you want probably goes somewhere else to play more.. We probably need to get improvement out of McLeod, Carey, or Patterson.

I'm not comparing Boeheim to Red. We have the same S&C staff.

Why do we have to assume a difference maker has to play behind those guys? We hope that Freeman is a starter from day 1 but there are no guarantees with freshman. And Brown is solid, but do you think he can't be recruited over?

If we can't recruit interior players that are better than McLeod, Carey, and Patterson, then we need to start thinking about a coaching change. I'm not saying it happens next year, but we need to start landing better inside guys than those players at some point in the next few years. I think we will.

 

[sufandu]

If Brown can add 10-15 lbs or more this off season he’s exactly what we need and an All ACC center.

I think the bigger question is who plays behind him and behind Freeman.. in terms of who sticks around , who portals etc I.e. do they bring McLeod back as a backup, does Patterson make a jump and show something, does Benny come back and put a whole season together, does Carey improve enough to be more than emergency depth then of course questions on Bell and Taylor too.

I agree, if he can add the size, he can be that good for us.

 

[atlanticuse]

am I wrong or have we not played a single freshman this year?
William Paterson hasn't seen the court, has he?

 

[Cusefan0307]

I'm not comparing Boeheim to Red. We have the same S&C staff.

Why do we have to assume a difference maker has to play behind those guys? We hope that Freeman is a starter from day 1 but there are no guarantees with freshman. And Brown is solid, but do you think he can't be recruited over?

If we can't recruit interior players that are better than McLeod, Carey, and Patterson, then we need to start thinking about a coaching change. I'm not saying it happens next year, but we need to start landing better inside guys than those players at some point in the next few years. I think we will.

Maliq Brown recruited over? Good grief. He's at worst a top 20 ACC player. He’s 3rd in steals, first in FG%, 10th in PER and 12th in win shares.

Freeman is a McDonalds All American. He’s not coming here to sit.

 

[721Comstock]

Maliq Brown recruited over? Good grief. He's at worst a top 20 ACC player. He’s 3rd in steals, first in FG%, 10th in PER and 12th in win shares.

Freeman is a McDonalds All American. He’s not coming here to sit.

... and all of that achieved while playing out of position.
Out of necessity.

Even if Donnie F 'only' gets the token start each game, he's gonna start.
I'm pretty sure he'll do a lot more than just get token starts tho - kid is a talent.

Bell and Taylor are both guys who should come off the bench.
Now, we may need for Bell to start next year, IF we still are stuck w having Maliq in the middle.

Assuming we had a competent 5, then you could have Maliq at the 4, and Freeman at the 3.
(not that these differentiate anything - they're both Forwards)
Freeman is skilled enough to play a SF type role for us.

If/when Maliq is at the 5, then Donnie's your 4, and maybe Bell or Taylor (if he's still here) are at the 3.
OR perhaps Q plays there? I like that idea too.

 

[Fly Rodder]

You're not getting a portal center. Less than 5% chance and I think the roster for next season is pretty much set barring something unexpected (big injury or transfer). JJ is going to get big minutes, Chance (pending recovery) and Q as the next two. Freeman and Maliq are playing big minutes. There's 5. Figure Moore, Naheem, and Cuffe off the bench, in that order. That's 8 guys. Red will play more guys than JAB did and someone is going get SF minutes with JJ and Chance, but 9 guys is pretty much the max I would expect to get regular minutes.

So it really comes down to Bell as the only logical potential replacement next season. He's obviously got talent, it's the epxression of it is really inconsistent and not necesserily elite. Does Bell make the leap as a junior like say D Nich did or is that too much to ask for? Does Red gamble and get a portal wing instead? Does he move on from a slightly below average player and get someone who wants big minutes and NIL, but might be slightly above average or bank on the improvement with another year in the system? None of the guys listed above outside of JJ and Brown (as well as Freeman hopefully) are really that bad or that good right now, so any replacement player might only be marginal improvement.

Tough decisions, but that's why Red gets the big bucks and I'm just an anonymous dumb dumb on an internet message board.

Judah, Taylor, Benny, Hima move on to their likely destinations. One of Carey/Patterson stay. Though, honestly, as much as I like to bag on fans' unrealistic expectations for Carey, I can see Red keeping both if the option is to get some random transfer guard who can't play either, unless he wants to use that roster spot for a wing project or shooter.