Postgame Thoughts… BC game 2

[rrlbees]

make no mistake... read back the thread.

my initial post was just saying how impressed I was with Sy’s per 40

and then the ”white” knights came out for Joe...for no reason... no one was bashing Joes per 40.

And make no mistake, nobody was bashing Sy either.

 

[Alsacs]

Yeah, but his number wouldn't stay that high with increased usage. It seldom does, whether it's shooting, rebounding, steals or assists.

A guy with a smaller sample size finds it easier to outperform the full time player, because reversion to the mean, and increased defensive attention from the opponent, when you go from being the number 3 or 4 option to "the man".

We don’t know that.
We are a jump shooting team.
I also think Symir would push the ball more with more PT. He would get assists. We would make jump shots and feeding Jesse.

 

[kcsu]

We have 3 guards who are all lacking a complete game. All of them do certain things well.
Two of them are excellent long range shooters. One has a very good handle and can get to the rack. None of them are strong defensive players. Simply put we are trying to manufacture decent guard production with three limited players who each have a single skill which is strong. It is what it is which is adequate against ok teams most of the time and lacking against better teams.

 

[crv1728]

Yeah, but his number wouldn't stay that high with increased usage. It seldom does, whether it's shooting, rebounding, steals or assists.

A guy with a smaller sample size finds it easier to outperform the full time player, because reversion to the mean, and increased defensive attention from the opponent, when you go from being the number 3 or 4 option to "the man".

Don’t we have a large enough sample of Symir’s work? It seems that you are making a big supposition here. If it’s one game and someone get huge numbers in a certain category, that’s one thing. But I think we have seen Symir do exceptionally well in assists on a very regular basis.

 

[IthacaMatt]

We don’t know that.
We are a jump shooting team.
I also think Symir would push the ball more with more PT. He would get assists. We would make jump shots and feeding Jesse.

He might be an exception, but just looking at SU history we've seen this all the time, starting with Buddy, who did better without all this attention last year and the year before, percentage wise. Or C.J. Fair, who shot 45% from three as a frosh, or something close to that, because he was the 4th option. Tyus Battle's per 40 numbers as a frosh were great compared to his highest usage rates later. It's not a scientific or statistical law or anything, but it's a pretty common trend.

 

[kuethstheman]

He might be an exception, but just looking at SU history we've seen this all the time, starting with Buddy, who did better without all this attention last year and the year before, percentage wise. Or C.J. Fair, who shot 45% from three as a frosh, or something close to that, because he was the 4th option. Tyus Battle's per 40 numbers as a frosh were great compared to his highest usage rates later. It's not a scientific or statistical law or anything, but it's a pretty common trend.

My first example of that was Dale Shackleford. Was awesome in limited minutes but all but disappeared, when he became the focal point of the offense. Although, a good portion of that was that he was a grossly undersized PF, later in his career.

We'll probably never know what would happen if Symir dominated the minutes at PG, but it's reasonable to expect that defenses would gameplan him to limit his assists.

 

[Cuseball]

We don’t know that.
We are a jump shooting team.
I also think Symir would push the ball more with more PT. He would get assists. We would make jump shots and feeding Jesse.

Here’s what I think we can all say.

Symir is the better pure point guard and much better at getting to the rim. Symir is better at facillating the offense (by putting driving pressure in the defense) but is not an outside to threat.

Joe has been much improved this year and is playing well a PG, although he is better suited for 2G. Joe is the much better offensive player

Joe should start and play the majority of minutes

Symir should get a little more time and it doesn’t always have to be at Joes expense.

Coach K’s going away party is going to be ruined by the Cuse in the dome!

Cuse!

 

[Alsacs]

Here’s what I think we can all say.

Symir is the better pure point guard and much better at getting to the rim. Symir is better at facillating the offense (by putting driving pressure in the defense) but is not an outside to threat.

Joe has been much improved this year and is playing well a PG, although he is better suited for 2G. Joe is the much better offensive player

Joe should start and play the majority of minutes

Symir should get a little more time and it doesn’t always have to be at Joes expense.

Coach K’s going away party is going to be ruined by the Cuse in the dome!

Cuse!

I would play Symir more and have Joe play some of Buddy’s minites.

Play Buddy 32 MPG
Joe 32 MPG
Symir 16 MPG.

The problem is the HC doesn’t think the team can function pr compete at the P5 level if Buddy doesn’t play an overwhelming majority of the game.

During the ACC tournament he is going to have to play the bench more if he wants to win.

Watch when it happens and then its fair to ask why he couldn’t do it during the seaspn.

The usage rates we use on players who shouldn’t have to have those usage rates has been almost every year since 2013.

 

[samspann1]

We were able to “take away”…a W?
I mean seriously, this win didn’t change any minds, we know what we are & it’s too late to change it. But, what…would a win over Duke change any minds as well?
Would we suddenly be NC contenders?
We are, what our record says we are.
You play the team in front of you, get a win, and keep it moving.

I think that BC is a bad team, and that BC played poorly yesterday, even by its own standards. Do you disagree with either of those points?

I was hoping to see crisp ball movement on offense yesterday, with guys taking care of the ball, and better shot selection.

As I said in my first words in this thread, "Gladly take the W"

 

[OttoinGrotto]

So what was up with the reaction JB had to Benny when JB subbed Benny out?

 

[OrangeDW]

I would play Symir more and have Joe play some of Buddy’s minites.

Play Buddy 32 MPG
Joe 32 MPG
Symir 16 MPG.

The problem is the HC doesn’t think the team can function pr compete at the P5 level if Buddy doesn’t play an overwhelming majority of the game.

During the ACC tournament he is going to have to play the bench more if he wants to win.

Watch when it happens and then its fair to ask why he couldn’t do it during the seaspn.

The usage rates we use on players who shouldn’t have to have those usage rates has been almost every year since 2013.

I’d go more like:
Buddy - 32
Joe - 27
Symir - 21

But yeah. Agreed.

 

[Nicknack]

So what was up with the reaction JB had to Benny when JB subbed Benny out?

Great question. It was really odd. Boeheim was telling him something about what he did wrong and as Benny went to his seat, Jim reacted emphatically. It looked like the reaction was due to something Benny said. However, I don't get the impression that Benny would say anything. Strange.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Great question. It was really odd. Boeheim was telling him something about what he did wrong and as Benny went to his seat, Jim reacted emphatically. It looked like the reaction was due to something Benny said. However, I don't get the impression that Benny would say anything. Strange.

It was just so weirdly demonstrative.

 

[Nicknack]

It was just so weirdly demonstrative.

Yes it was which is why it seemed like a reaction based on Benny's reaction.

 

[rrlbees]

Great question. It was really odd. Boeheim was telling him something about what he did wrong and as Benny went to his seat, Jim reacted emphatically. It looked like the reaction was due to something Benny said. However, I don't get the impression that Benny would say anything. Strange.

When Benny first got to the sidelines he said something to JB. Probably saying why he did or didn’t do something on the rotation.

 

[Sherman20]

Colgate, Gtown, VCU, @Miami, @Wake, @VT, @Pitt...sigh

I could live with the VCU loss. VCU is an elite defensive team and we were still figuring things out. VT beat us, and not having Jesse definitely hurt. No excuses at all for the Colgate, Gtown and Pitt losses. We should also have pulled out the Wake and FSU games at the end. Win those five games and the team is 19-7 and 11-4 in conference and in the hunt for an NCAA tourney bid. They’re really only one good player (KR, BBBB, QG) from being a decent (though not vintage Cuse) team. Again, it’s about failure of roster construction.

 

[Orangezoo]

I could live with the VCU loss. VCU is an elite defensive team and we were still figuring things out. VT beat us, and not having Jesse definitely hurt. No excuses at all for the Colgate, Gtown and Pitt losses. We should have pulled out the Wake and FSU games at the end. Win those five games and the team is 19-7 and 11-4 in conference and in the hunt for an NCAA tourney bid. They’re really only one good player (KR, BBBB, QG) from being a decent (though not vintage Cuse) team. Again, it’s about failure of roster construction.

KR and Braswell to me change everything in a what if scenario.

I'll still hold the Miami game and us being 20-6 as I agree on VCU and VT.

 

[Sherman20]

OMG. That's out of like 350 teams, right?
How can we be rated that low, and still be at .500?

Because our offense is around 15th in offensive efficiency.

 

[Sherman20]

But I thought things like strength of opponent are factored into KenPom. I could see us having a bad statistical profile, but that's saying we're truly a terrible defensive team among our peer group to be ranked that low against teams from the MEAC and the Sunbelt and the Gulf Coast Conference. Sheesh, this is embarrassing.

The difference between our KenPom offensive and defensive efficiency is stark. Probably the most stark difference of any team except Miami and a couple of mid majors like Davidson. Bart Torvik has us a bit higher in his rankings, #158 in defensive efficiency. He actually has us all the way up at 50th overall, one spot ahead of ND and about 20 spots higher than we are in KenPom.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I think that BC is a bad team, and that BC played poorly yesterday, even by its own standards. Do you disagree with either of those points?

I was hoping to see crisp ball movement on offense yesterday, with guys taking care of the ball, and better shot selection.

As I said in my first words in this thread, "Gladly take the W"

If your implication is: “Had BC been a better team, then…”. Then what? We would’ve lost, or maybe been tested more and won by less, or had more warts exposed in the process of a win?
I’m not seeing the point of evaluating our performance by the strengths and/or weaknesses of your opponent. It’s a qualifier that diminishes and downplays the victory, which is after all the point of playing the game, and assigns qualifiers where none are needed.
If we’re playing well then a victory over BC has the same worth as a victory over Duke. OTOH- if we’re NOT playing well then a loss vs BC and Duke would still count the same as well. The common denominator is US, not our opponent. JMHO

 

[samspann1]

If your implication is: “Had BC been a better team, then…”. Then what?

Stopped reading after that...I didn't say or imply such a thing.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Stopped reading after that...I didn't say or imply such a thing.

Hence use of the word, “IF”, which means that I’m asking the question, to be sure about my supposition. Hope that helps.

 

[samspann1]

Hence use of the word, “IF”, which means that I’m asking the question, to be sure about my supposition. Hope that helps.

The answer to your question is no.

I'll ask my questions again: I think that BC is a bad team, and that BC played poorly yesterday, even by its own standards. Do you disagree with either of those points?

Also, SU has 4 games in 7 nights coming up. Assuming SU plays as it did yesterday, how do you think SU will fare in those 4 games?

 

[DoctorBombay]

And the answer to your question is, I wasn’t keeping tabs on BC’s performance. I’m not a fan of BC so I couldn’t tell you if yesterday’s play was better or worse than their usual performance. Their record says they’re a bad team, and yesterday’s performance doesn’t change that. And my main point as it relates to US is…who cares how they played?
Which brings me to your 2nd question and the one, IMO, which is most relevant to this discussion. Yes, based on how WE played yesterday, i believe we have a very good chance of going 3-1or at worst, 2-2 over these next 4 games.
I’m pleasantly surprised by Sidibe’s contribution so far, and Frank is looking steady if not strong. If we play that kind of defense and if Cole, who is the key component IMO, continues shooting well, we’ll be in good shape for a run in the ACCT. Capiche?

 

[samspann1]

And the answer to your question is, I wasn’t keeping tabs on BC’s performance. I’m not a fan of BC so I couldn’t tell you if yesterday’s play was better or worse than their usual performance. Their record says they’re a bad team, and yesterday’s performance doesn’t change that. And my main point as it relates to US is…who cares how they played?
Which brings me to your 2nd question and the one, IMO, which is most relevant to this discussion. Yes, based on how WE played yesterday, i believe we have a very good chance of going 3-1or at worst, 2-2 over these next 4 games.
I’m pleasantly surprised by Sidibe’s contribution so far, and Frank is looking steady if not strong. If we play that kind of defense and if Cole, who is the key component IMO, continues shooting well, we’ll be in good shape for a run in the ACCT. Capiche?

"If we that play that kind of defense". To which defensive performances are you referring?