Postgame Thoughts… Miami

[Orangefizz]

Taylor is the top 50 recruit Buddy replacement, no? Should be way more ready from day 1, right? If so, I’m penciling him in for 10-12. We’ll see.

Benny was a 5 star recruit. No reason he can’t produce double digits as a soph. I’m expecting a Kris Joseph type freshman to sophomore leap.

Symir just needs to give us 8 and 7 and play defense and don’t do anything dumb. He can do that.

Jesse gets 20 and Joe plays the two and tries to get 20, but gets 16. Which is fine.

A lot of sunshine with those Orange colored glasses. Symir 8/7; more like 4/2. I think JG3 will average 20 ppg, but hopefully as a 2G

 

[OrangeDW]

A lot of sunshine with those Orange colored glasses. Symir 8/7; more like 4/2. I think JG3 will average 20 ppg, but hopefully as a 2G

Orange colored glasses….lol.

Program stinks.

Symir is actually a PG who can pass. You people all trashed Z Sims when he came off the bench and played too little, too.

Those kind of guys don’t shine in some AAU BS b-ball. They need the rock and the team, and to be left the hell alone.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I said decommits, not transfers out.
Meaning that if we get players in the portal, ostensibly it would be for the purpose of installing them with big minutes, meaning (even) less opportunity for the incoming freshmen.

I don't think any of our 5 commitments are big enough to get a hat full of offers if they decommitted this spring.

 

[oTTo113445]

The number of times people have to come to the ball during a half-court press is devastating. If there was a strike zone for passes ours hit the plate go over the ump, or end up in the other team's dugout. Not to mention all the balks from constantly picking up the dribble. Lack of shooting percentages forces us to go on second-half runs, and we couldn't do that today when lack of speed kills your passing.

I really hope to see Benny Frank and Jessie split 40 minutes at the Center and Forward next year, and Benny doesn't slow his game strengthening as Quincy did. They got a long way to go, but it could be our best rebounding trio in over a decade.

 

[JDubbin]

Here's a couple of observations:

When you play the wings in the zone as high as Syracuse does on defense, but it doesn't effectively hinder the pass to the offensive player on the wing, it immediately puts the zone in scramble mode, immediately. It's even worse (hindered by the lack of athleticism) to make a move to steal the ball in the passing lane but have the inability to do so... it's a wrap after that. The offensive wing player can attack the rim, while having another player in the corner to dish to who is essentially unguarded. Jesse closes out hard to the corner, player pump fakes... cue the Yackety Yak soundtrack.

Confidence is SUCH a unique, unmeasurable in sports... but especially in basketball. As soon as Miami came out & started splashing DEEP 3's (I don't even think they were good shots or were strategically schemed into, just hoisting), I knew the Orange was in for it.

For the first time I think in my life as a Syracuse fan, I think the zone is at a place where it actually gives opposing players confidence & is comfortable. The current iteration of the zone (based on roster makeup), does not put the opposing players in uncomfortable positions... in fact, it almost works in the opposite way to make them MORE comfortable. Simple short corner dump down/alley-oop dunks, free throw line jumpers, unmoving catch & shoot a 3's, there's really nothing uncomfortable about it.

I work with a few college basketball teams at the D-I & D-II levels. I was at a D-II game on the bench & the team I was with pressed for 2/3rds of a game. The other team was soooo uncomfortable, they didn't have great ball handlers & couldn't handle the pressure. For some reason the coach switched to a zone (coaching conservatively) & the other team THRIVED as soon as it was implemented. No pressure on ball handlers, they were comfortable shooters in space without pressure... & they ended up coming back & winning, getting basically whatever shots they wanted. The zone played to their strengths. I'm not a coach myself, but myself & the assistants were furious with the decisions by the head coach for all the reasons listed above.

Almost every game this season, with the Orange, I'm seeing something very similar. Same ingredients seem to bake the same cake, right? The Indiana game could have easily been this as well.

I have no issue with Boeheim running zone defense. I actually don't even really have a problem with him running it exclusively, it's not an approach I would take personally, but I respect a coach making coaching decisions & that's what he wants to do... I have no hate for that. However, when you lack physical, long, athletic players... like this season... It's brutal. Only comfort & confidence for the opposing teams it seems.

 

[kcsu]

Was watching the game with a few guys close to the program. We each made the comment that with about 3 to go in the first half Jim should have become very deliberate on O. Run clock and go in with a solid lead. Well Jb didnt run clock and we went in up 14. Not bad but could have been 20.
Coming out after half we all new the first 5 minutes was the game. If Cuse could play even for the first 5 minutes we most likely win going away. We also knew Miami would apply pressure. Jim simply had to slow the pace. Not get into a rock fight. Instead the team plays out of control and folds.
Jb 5 years ago with exactly this team wins this game going away. His poor use of TOs, his use of Buddy vs leaving Joe at the 2 ( gee hes not bad there) with Symir at the point was the winning lineup. Not sure why he didn't see that but again JB normally wins these games going away.
Personally i thinks its a combination of his kids, and him being not as sharp, not as quick as he used to be.
This game for me is a real indication that his coaching has slipped.
Sad but hes definitely not as sharp as he used to be.

 

[City of Cuse]

When you play the wings in the zone as high as Syracuse does on defense, but it doesn't effectively hinder the pass to the offensive player on the wing, it immediately puts the zone in scramble mode, immediately.

Nice write up. This has been my problem with the zone this year. 3 passes and they are scrambling like it's the end of the possession.

 

[two3zone]

If this team finishes under .500 and JB comes back, I think we are going to portal hard. No way he will want to leave after a sub .500 years. The Boeheim colored glasses will be off and he’ll upgrade the roster.

Not sure the roster next year is any better.

 

[OrangeDW]

Was watching the game with a few guys close to the program. We each made the comment that with about 3 to go in the first half Jim should have become very deliberate on O. Run clock and go in with a solid lead. Well Jb didnt run clock and we went in up 14. Not bad but could have been 20.
Coming out after half we all new the first 5 minutes was the game. If Cuse could play even for the first 5 minutes we most likely win going away. We also knew Miami would apply pressure. Jim simply had to slow the pace. Not get into a rock fight. Instead the team plays out of control and folds.
Jb 5 years ago with exactly this team wins this game going away. His poor use of TOs, his use of Buddy vs leaving Joe at the 2 ( gee hes not bad there) with Symir at the point was the winning lineup. Not sure why he didn't see that but again JB normally wins these games going away.
Personally i thinks its a combination of his kids, and him being not as sharp, not as quick as he used to be.
This game for me is a real indication that his coaching has slipped.
Sad but hes definitely not as sharp as he used to be.

I’ve been calling for 3 guards for weeks.

In my group texts I was going nuts after the first possesion of the second half to put Symir and Benny in.

Then the next possesion Jimmy bricks a layup and the spazzing was on.

Pathetic and predictable. I hate this.

 

[UnknownOrange]

Got isis cutting peoples heads off!

 

[JDubbin]

And the REAL question we need to consider... why do Jimmy & Cole fall down so much? It's outrageous, like a miracle defying the laws of physics... but in the negative way?

 

[OrangeDW]

And the REAL question we need to consider... why do Jimmy & Cole fall down so much? It's outrageous, like a miracle defying the laws of physics... but in the negative way?

I remember when Hughes would slip all the time because he was more worried about tweeting about his “cool” kicks rather than sticking to what works.

These current guys….I don’t think that’s their problem. They’re just clutzy.

More Benny, PLEASE. Where are we going? Put the kid with a high ceiling in, more.

 

[OrangeinDC]

He certainly had some turnovers and got stripped a few times, but a couple of them were after passes/catches in traffic. Felt like most of the first half he was diving out of bounds trying to save a ball too.

Yep, some of those were hustle and effort plays. I like the energy and effort though.

 

[OrangeinDC]

Jesse almost messed around and had a triple double.

Yup... Today was a good day...

 

[OrangeDW]

The lack of athleticism with the forwards is startling. But Perraint Joe and body is equally as bad.

Z was a great passer and excellent defender; a much better player than Symir

You’re talking 5th year senior Z? When he got his chance? I assume.

What about the first 4 years Z?

 

[IthacaMatt]

There's a lot of video and coverage out there. Check out their threads on the recruiting board.

I know very little about next year’s recruits.

Quick synopses:

Qadir Copeland - 6-6, 175 PG. 4 Star. (PA) Not a great shooter, but can get to the rim pretty easily, can throw the alley oop and the flashy pass. Not super quick, but uses his body well in the lane. He should start from Day One, as Bees likes to say.

Justin Taylor - 6-6, 210 SG. 4 Star. (VA) In the Buddy Boeheim mold, maybe a bit more athletic, but not a ton. Very good stroke, even though his stats haven't been jumping off the page yet at IMG, where he plays with Copeland. His mom is a superfan already. Taylor helped us get our PF, Maliq Brown. These guys all played AAU ball together.

Chris Bunch - 6-6, 185 SF. 4 Star. (CA). This guy is quick off the floor, and he can make a bunch of threes at a time. But his release point is a little low, and kind of slow. He's been able to shoot over HS competition, but I don't see him as an early contributor. He's slender, a finesse player, not a great handle. He'll be a late bloomer like Damone Brown.

Maliq Brown - Either 6-8 or 6-9, I've seen his weight anywhere from 195 to 210. I think his size is getting exaggerated a bit. I would call him 6-8, 200. He's a hard worker with a good motor. I think he had an injury as a JR, which saw him fall out of the Top 100. As a HS sophomore, he played like a young Paul Harris. They call him a 3 Star, but he's a high 3 Star, just outside the Top 100. I see this kid as a Tyler Roberson type of player. From the same VA high school as Taylor.

Peter Carey - 7-0, 195 (MD). He's a 3 star with an offer list of small East Coast schools like Iona, Brown and Bryant. The thing that jumps off his film is that he has a very good handle for a big guy, and he's surprisingly agile. He can dribble, he's fluid, he can run. He dunks pretty much everything, but not in the mechanical way that Jon Bol Ajak did in his empty-gym videos. With strength and conditioning, this kid could be a pretty good player in a couple years. Not a stiff.

 

[OrangeinDC]

I think I would like to see Swider back as the alpha scorer. We didn't get one in the recruiting class like we hoped. It would probably be great for him to let the Boeheims move on, and he could be the featured scorer next year, along with Girard.

PG: Copeland
SG: Girard
SF: Benny
PF: Swider
C: Edwards

Bench:

G: Taylor, Torrence
: Brown, Bunch
C: Anselem, Carey

With someone else on the bench, someone willing to play his bench as a weapon, that's not a bad team.

Please no... Really hope he moves on. I do not like his game... Can't imagine a team with him being the alpha... Seems like a good kid, does some good things occasionally but he should be an off the bench guy for sure.

 

[Orangefizz]

Quick synopses:

Qadir Copeland - 6-6, 175 PG. 4 Star. (PA) Not a great shooter, but can get to the rim pretty easily, can throw the alley oop and the flashy pass. Not super quick, but uses his body well in the lane. He should start from Day One, as Bees likes to say.

Justin Taylor - 6-6, 210 SG. 4 Star. (VA) In the Buddy Boeheim mold, maybe a bit more athletic, but not a ton. Very good stroke, even though his stats haven't been jumping off the page yet at IMG, where he plays with Copeland. His mom is a superfan already. Taylor helped us get our PF, Maliq Brown. These guys all played AAU ball together.

Chris Bunch - 6-6, 185 SF. 4 Star. (CA). This guy is quick off the floor, and he can make a bunch of threes at a time. But his release point is a little low, and kind of slow. He's been able to shoot over HS competition, but I don't see him as an early contributor. He's slender, a finesse player, not a great handle. He'll be a late bloomer like Damone Brown.

Maliq Brown - Either 6-8 or 6-9, I've seen his weight anywhere from 195 to 210. I think his size is getting exaggerated a bit. I would call him 6-8, 200. He's a hard worker with a good motor. I think he had an injury as a JR, which saw him fall out of the Top 100. As a HS sophomore, he played like a young Paul Harris. They call him a 3 Star, but he's a high 3 Star, just outside the Top 100. I see this kid as a Tyler Roberson type of player. From the same VA high school as Taylor.

Peter Carey - 7-0, 195 (MD). He's a 3 star with an offer list of small East Coast schools like Iona, Brown and Bryant. The thing that jumps off his film is that he has a very good handle for a big guy, and he's surprisingly agile. He can dribble, he's fluid, he can run. He dunks pretty much everything, but not in the mechanical way that Jon Bol Ajak did in his empty-gym videos. With strength and conditioning, this kid could be a pretty good player in a couple years. Not a stiff.

We badly need athleticism from the portal at PG and PF. The hs recruits may have potential but none as high impact day 1 starters

 

[FrancoPizza]

The money I am saving from football I will invest in the new HC to make up for what I believe will see some Boeheim loyalists pull out.

Fans are going to have to up to make up the difference as I expect we will lose some when JB retires.

At the end of the day fans pay money to watch the product on the court, not the bench. It will be jarring and nostalgic sadness for awhile not seeing JB on the sideline, but fans want to win, be entertained and have something to look forward to. The idea that some will pull out when Jb retires seems silly and premature.

 

[oTTo113445]

not completely sold, but imo cole's quickness is ok as a power forward in transition (press) not so much as a sf. Girard, he's more a sg in terms of his quickness.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Please no... Really hope he moves on. I do not like his game... Can't imagine a team with him being the alpha... Seems like a good kid, does some good things occasionally but he should be an off the bench guy for sure.

He's scoring 13 points with 7 rebounds a game right now, being the number 3 or 4 option on the team. Do you realize that past forwards like Shumpert and Southerland were not as good rebounders as Swider has shown so far?

I could see Swider provide a reliable bucket-getter on an otherwise offensively challenged and really young team next year. I trust him to get buckets more than Girard.

If you move him on, you need to find somebody better. That's the name of the game, remember - upgrading the roster, not just casting aside guys who you think are too flawed. I remember when we used to be good at developing players.

 

[OrangeDW]

He's scoring 13 points with 7 rebounds a game right now, being the number 3 or 4 option on the team. Do you realize that past forwards like Shumpert and Southerland were not as good rebounders as Swider has shown so far?

I could see Swider provide a reliable bucket-getter on an otherwise offensively challenged and really young team next year. I trust him to get buckets more than Girard.

If you move him on, you need to find somebody better. That's the name of the game, remember - upgrading the roster, not just casting aside guys who you think are too flawed. I remember when we used to be good at developing players.

Shumpert averaged around 20 ppg for 2 years - one on a 25-9 team that won an NCAA game. Way better offensive player. He was 6’6, not 6’9. Cole should be a better rebounder. Shump was a pure 3, or even a 2….before he was a 4. Cole is a 4 in the modern game.

Southerland was a key guy on some of our best teams ever, including a final 4 team. Better shooter and better defender.

 

[sdorange]

After almost 50 years, I wish JB’s tireless recruiting and eye for talent had coincided with his keen in game coaching( missed free throws and catastrophic injury noted). I believe the former derailed for “reasons” , which has led to the current product.

 

[OrangeinDC]

He's scoring 13 points with 7 rebounds a game right now, being the number 3 or 4 option on the team. Do you realize that past forwards like Shumpert and Southerland were not as good rebounders as Swider has shown so far?

I could see Swider provide a reliable bucket-getter on an otherwise offensively challenged and really young team next year. I trust him to get buckets more than Girard.

If you move him on, you need to find somebody better. That's the name of the game, remember - upgrading the roster, not just casting aside guys who you think are too flawed. I remember when we used to be good at developing players.

No knock on the 13/7. I agree, the name is upgrade! I would definitely keep him on the team, but I would change his role. For me it's Defense, Defense, Defense and I would trade his 13/7 numbers for half if the kid could lock down the forward spot offensively and defensively (stop THEM from scoring). I think Swider CAN rebound, but it doesn't jump out at me other than from a couple big games.

I think offensively he can be a black hole, not a very good passer, and can play a little selfish sometimes. I won't even get into the defensive liabilities, but sometimes he doesn't look like he's even trying on that end. Also.. his body language is a turn off sometimes towards his own team, seems over the top (mind you I have no idea what he's actually saying...) I do think he's a good player, but alpha seems above his ceiling.

I could see him coming in (off the bench) and if he's hot or playing well, let him play. I would be curious to know how many points/rebounds he gives up a game?

Swider and JG... It's hard to really gauge their real game based on their roles now. I think JG (like so many here have said), would be great in the 2 spot and Swider can do some things occasionally well, but defense is not the strong part of either of their games... I think JG would be the more consistent scorer and Swider the change up if he's on.

I really do miss the player development.. I believe that is why we were always able to compete without top 10 recruiting classes. We had players that were developed by coaching, playing behind better guys and ready to step into those roles as guys moved on....

 

[cuseguy]

I’m gonna sadly predict a commensurate number of de commits per portal transfer.

Definitely do not want to lose those kids. There may not be an immediate star in the group, but it’s such a diverse collection and i kinda feel like there’s a lottery ticket or two in there.

Lottery? Who?