Postgame Thoughts… ND

[Fly Rodder]

Very happy for the seniors today. Great effort from Joe & Jesse.

 

[kcsu]

Taylor pushing Bell down the rotation seems to be the biggest takeaway.

JBA pushing past Bell is a shocker, probably an aberration... But how many times have we been victimized by good passers out of the high post? JBA did some nice things out there. Unfortunately, he and I had the same number of rebounds as dead men.

and Joe played on the ball a lot

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

I welcome our new point forward JBA. And in the fall, he’s going to play tight end for the football team too.

I hear he's better at run-blocking than you might expect for a lanky dude.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Really happy for JBA. Kid has stuck it out and is being rewarded with a chance. 1 bad shot, 1 fumbled pass, but otherwise very solid. Love his ability to keep a couple rebounds alive, though he didn’t get any. The close out on the final play was textbook.

Not sure there’s any reason to change the lineup now. If you bench Bell or Benny you will lose them mentally. Lets them try to get going and see how it plays out. Taylor is getting the same minutes and closing out games no matter who starts.

JBA gets some run….my only quibble would be to get Brown a taste every game.

JB can still coach from tip to buzzer….it’s all the other stuff that is the issue.

Glad Mintz got a positive late in the game and he should understand that that drive is what he needs to do in pressure possessions…not the fancy dribble 15 foot fadeaway (that luckily fell).

Not surprised Joe got off the snyde. For 20 years, our shooters always get healthy against ND…especially at their place. They simply don’t pressure the ball like other teams.

Oh, and Jessie has been insane every night. To a degree he’s getting so many rebounds there’s not much left for the forwards.

He was in the portal and had no takers.

 

[l'orange]

We are complimenting Joe for have a +/- of -4 and going 2 of 10 from three!?
Look, he plays almost the entire game in a Win and still has a -4 +/-.
Symir needs way more PT.

 

[orange79]

We are complimenting Joe for have a +/- of -4 and going 2 of 10 from three!?
Look, he plays almost the entire game in a Win and still has a -4 +/-.
Symir needs way more PT.

View attachment 222795

Where is our scoring going to come from?

 

[Cheriehoop]

We are complimenting Joe for have a +/- of -4 and going 2 of 10 from three!?
Look, he plays almost the entire game in a Win and still has a -4 +/-.
Symir needs way more PT.

View attachment 222795

Look at those stats and try to figure out how they can earn those rates. Jesse with just a positive 1? Torrence and Benny, each had a better rating while shooting a combined 1-5; 0 rebounds, and 2 assists than Jesse‘s stats? I saw that after the game and laughed about how crazy that +/- rating compared to the performance and stats we actually saw in the game.

 

[Cstate]

We are complimenting Joe for have a +/- of -4 and going 2 of 10 from three!?
Look, he plays almost the entire game in a Win and still has a -4 +/-.
Symir needs way more PT.

View attachment 222795

If you want to look into additional head scratching numbers….we made 28 field goals and our point guard played 38 minutes, dishing out 2 assists. But sure, take out Joe’s scoring and plug in Sy, are you sure we still win??

 

[br801]

We are complimenting Joe for have a +/- of -4 and going 2 of 10 from three!?
Look, he plays almost the entire game in a Win and still has a -4 +/-.
Symir needs way more PT.

View attachment 222795

Symir played really well at the end of last season, but he hasn't been productive to date this season. I would expect he'll turn things around, but he's not going to see significant minutes until he does.

 

[OrangeDW]

Symir played really well at the end of last season, but he hasn't been productive to date this season. I would expect he'll turn things around, but he's not going to see significant minutes until he does.

I think it’s not having the shooters.

Last year he could penetrate a bit and find shooters. By the end of the year he was looking good at getting the ball to the right ones at the right time. You can pile up assists when you get the ball to shooters and they make shots.

Also, he looked fast last year because everyone else was so slow.

 

[721Comstock]

Look at those stats and try to figure out how they can earn those rates. Jesse with just a positive 1? Torrence and Benny, each had a better rating while shooting a combined 1-5; 0 rebounds, and 2 assists than Jesse‘s stats? I saw that after the game and laughed about how crazy that +/- rating compared to the performance and stats we actually saw in the game.

It's actually quite easy to figure out:

Jesse (remarkably!!) played all 40 minutes.
We won by 1 point.
Hence - his plus/minus is +1.

Is that stat at all indicative of his HUGE positive impact on the game?
Clearly not.

Besides, 72% of all stats are made up on the spot.

 

[djcon57]

Also, he looked fast last year because everyone else was so slow.

this. It’s why he was held as some great defender. He was just better than Buddy and Joe.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

I think while being excited for the win and hoping for the best, I think some of analysis isn’t recognizing that ND missed A LOT of open shots

I get what you're saying, but ND was EXACTLY at their season average for 3Pt% in the game. They shot 33%, and their average this year is 33%. Their 3 point shooting was exactly what it should have been based on their first six games.

 

[djcon57]

I get what you're saying, but ND was EXACTLY at their season average for 3Pt% in the game. They shot 33%, and their average this year is 33%. Their 3 point shooting was exactly what it should have been based on their first six games.

Thats fair to a degree, I guess.

My point was more about how the open misses were due to good D. If you want to say we played the percentages, fine. but it’s not ”good” D. And it wasnt “bad D” when Colgate shoots lights out against us. Watching guys make or miss shots just doesn’t seem like a viable strategy in 2022. But is what it is.

 

[Orangezoo]

I get what you're saying, but ND was EXACTLY at their season average for 3Pt% in the game. They shot 33%, and their average this year is 33%. Their 3 point shooting was exactly what it should have been based on their first six games.

You sure? ESPN says they are 35.9 pct (68/189) for the year and that is after the SU game where before they were 36.5pct.

Also they were almost 40 pct at home prior to playing us as well.

 

[orangecuse]

Really happy for JBA. Kid has stuck it out and is being rewarded with a chance. 1 bad shot, 1 fumbled pass, but otherwise very solid. Love his ability to keep a couple rebounds alive, though he didn’t get any. The close out on the final play was textbook.

Not sure there’s any reason to change the lineup now. If you bench Bell or Benny you will lose them mentally. Lets them try to get going and see how it plays out. Taylor is getting the same minutes and closing out games no matter who starts.

JBA gets some run….my only quibble would be to get Brown a taste every game.

JB can still coach from tip to buzzer….it’s all the other stuff that is the issue.

Glad Mintz got a positive late in the game and he should understand that that drive is what he needs to do in pressure possessions…not the fancy dribble 15 foot fadeaway (that luckily fell).

Not surprised Joe got off the snyde. For 20 years, our shooters always get healthy against ND…especially at their place. They simply don’t pressure the ball like other teams.

Oh, and Jessie has been insane every night. To a degree he’s getting so many rebounds there’s not much left for the forwards.

Exactly! We've typically always matched up extremely well against them for this exact reason. And, it's a very significant reason for our typical success against them.

As mentioned in various threads last year, and years preceding, teams that guard us aggressively and place a lot of ball pressure on our (floor-less generals) creates immense havoc for our iso-centric type offense and ensuing losses...a la Illinois, etc.

Mintz, looks like he's a guy that has the potential to break this trend, although, just as he did in the Illinois game, he plays a bit out of control when sped up. As he gains more experiences, matures, and improves upon his skill set, etc., it'll be a big plus facing those type of teams in the future.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Where is our scoring going to come from?

Shhh. Analytics.

 

[djcon57]

Where is our scoring going to come from?

The players on the floor.

How did we do it vs St Johns?

Joe goes out, score is 8-7, w/ 14:27 left in the 1st

Joe comes back in, score is 19-8 w/ 11:10 left in the 1st

11 points in 3 mins:
6 pts by Mintz
5 by Benny

These are just facts.

This idea that permeates some of the fanbase that we can't score if Joe (or Buddy before him) isn't on the floor is the help of the JB "spacing" propaganda the last couple of years.

Also, defense/rebounding/etc matter too.

if Joe plays like he did at ND, in general, no issues. If he plays like he did vs St Johns, he should sit.

 

[Brooky03]

We are complimenting Joe for have a +/- of -4 and going 2 of 10 from three!?
Look, he plays almost the entire game in a Win and still has a -4 +/-.
Symir needs way more PT.

View attachment 222795

20 points on 18 shots. If Symir takes 18 shots, how many points does he score?

That’s your answer. If Symir was a facilitator, assist getter, he’d play more. But he’s neither a scorer nor a facilitator. Gotta do at least one of those to get real minutes, unless there’s no competition at the position.

+\- is a good stat in context. You can’t just look at a negative number there and decide a player hurt their team, though.

 

[althea]

The players on the floor.

How did we do it vs St Johns?

Joe goes out, score is 8-7, w/ 14:27 left in the 1st

Joe comes back in, score is 19-8 w/ 11:10 left in the 1st

11 points in 3 mins:
6 pts by Mintz
5 by Benny

These are just facts.

This idea that permeates some of the fanbase that we can't score if Joe (or Buddy before him) isn't on the floor is the help of the JB "spacing" propaganda the last couple of years.

Also, defense/rebounding/etc matter too.

if Joe plays like he did at ND, in general, no issues. If he plays like he did vs St Johns, he should sit.

“Propaganda” is a little harsh. There is some truth to it although JB is known for exaggerating. One of the reasons Jesse is getting a lot more attention this year is because he’s not surrounded by really good shooters.